Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[SantosHalper]

Copp has shown some real chemistry with Kane these last couple of games.

The haters are going to be in shambles if he keeps it up.

Whatcha gonna do brother when Copp-a-mania runs wild on you!

 

[ShanahanMan]

Interesting comments from Friedman. Seems to be implying that either the guys aren’t ready or the coach has lost the room

https://x.com/i/web/status/1852029746596430076

 

[Shaman464]

Two problems:

1. Drafting has been going after high character, high floor, low ceiling players that leave the forward core to be severely untalented.

2. Trying to sign players who overachieved in their FA year on more talented teams to fill larger roles on a less talented Red Wings team hoping it would take them to the next level.

If Detroit had a couple more high impact kids bringing on Compher/Copp/Holl like players would be not great but not bad. But these two things combined leaves Detroit in the position to be too good to get high impact players in the draft and too bad to realistically make the playoffs in their current configuration.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

sometimes a Michelin star chef will have a snack while the entree is baking in the oven. If we are having this same conversation in 2026 then yes I will concede the point. His timeline was and is the long road.

2026????

He cannot have an endless runway. It’s unacceptable if they’re not in the postseason this spring.

He’s in year six. It’s irrelevant what the team looked like when he got here.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

What year of the Yzerplan is this...6 or 7?

I'm not so sure it's acceptable either way to be still this consistently lousy, ie slow, soft, lack of skill, poor decision-making, poor structure, inconsistent goaltending...

A bottom 10 finish should be seen as an abject failure from top to bottom...

Still lots of time to get going here but hard decisions need to be made

It isn’t. At all. And I’m stunned that there are still people saying that they want to wait until 2026 before really beginning to scrutinize him.

 

[DamonDRW]

I feel that most fans here consider our drafting positions throughout those years as one small thing that didn't matter a lot for where we are now. You can't do good rebuild in this league anymore if you don't draft 1/2 OA on a consistent basis.

frankly speaking, our rebuld already failed. some fans just cannot accept this fact for some reason. we have two options: start over again or build a good D with good goalies and test our luck with drafting star forwards 8n the following 3-5 years. I guess the latter option will be executed by Steve Y. we might get competitive again by 2028-2030.

however, the bottom line is that we are not making the playoffs in the upcoming 3 years.

 

[HisNoodliness]

2026????

He cannot have an endless runway. It’s unacceptable if they’re not in the postseason this spring.

He’s in year six. It’s irrelevant what the team looked like when he got here.

I'm about as frustrated as anyone on here these days. I feel like this team's problems have been entirely predictable and having 100% commitment to Yzerman's type of player has prevented us from building a competent team. If Walman is a problem in the locker room and our second best defenseman, you try to coach him. At least until you can replace him. If Ben Chiarot is your best friend and a terrible hockey player, you invite him to your family barbecue. You don't sign him to play for you. When we have to make a choice on a defenseman, it seems like we choose wrong 80% of the time. We're ultimately full of character guys that play the right way and everyone sings kumbaya at the end of team meetings. They also are just bad hockey players and I'm so excited for their contracts to expire this/next off-season.

However, Yzerman's biggest saving grace has been the draft. Our important picks have all turned into important players under him. I think we hurt their development by consistently holding them back, but they're still ultimately making it and making an impact when they do. It is also clear that Yzerman has set our contract situation up to have maximum flexibility around the time our team is composed mostly of those picks. That transition should happen in a big way this off-season and complete the off-season after.

Thus I think it makes sense to scrutinize Yzerman's moves. If we try to solve our defense with more of the same and things don't improve, I'll be ready to hop on the "firezerman" train. I don't think it makes any sense to do so now when he's clearly 75% of the way to completing his plan. We may as well see what that looks like when it all comes together. If Kasper, Danielson, MBN and ASP all translate to the NHL as well as Seider-, Raymond and Edvinsson have, and our next round of UFA/trade acquisitions isn't Jacob Trouba and his equivalents, we'll be a good team. It's reasonable to hope that that has been Yzerman's vision the whole time, so I think it's sensible to see it through.

Don't change horses in the middle of a stream.

 

[SirKillalot]

Two problems:

1. Drafting has been going after high character, high floor, low ceiling players that leave the forward core to be severely untalented.

2. Trying to sign players who overachieved in their FA year on more talented teams to fill larger roles on a less talented Red Wings team hoping it would take them to the next level.

I agree with the first point. However one can also spin it around and say they have drafted highly responsible players and not high flash, terrible defend players, meaning even if they had all the talent they wouldn't win and people would complain that they were bad defensively. So a doomed if you do and doomed if you don't situation when it comes to comments from fans.
Maybe they haven't seen those specific offensive talents they think would be powerful enough or they haven't been available to them in their draft position.

He cannot have an endless runway. It’s unacceptable if they’re not in the postseason this spring.

It's by no means unacceptable to not make the playoffs this season. Should have made it last year because of the position and form they were in, but in reality had no business being there last season. They need to keep building it stone by stone and piece by piece, if make the playoffs great and if not its okay. Better to keep growing and stay on plan and the team will become stronger for it. No point making hasty idiotic decisions at this point.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Steve yzerman is worried the players aren’t ready for “primetime”? brother you made the roster!

 

[SirloinUB]

frankly speaking, our rebuld already failed.

The majority of Yzerman's draft picks haven't had a chance to play any/20 games and we're chalking it up as failure.

Not a single one of his draft picks has even hit their prime. Like what the hell did you guys expect at this point.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The majority of Yzerman's draft picks haven't had a chance to play any/20 games and we're chalking it up as failure.

Not a single one of his draft picks has even hit their prime. Like what the hell did you guys expect at this point.

For some people they ignore the team's improvement in the standings every year and making the playoffs is the only metric for improvement.

Other people cite the number of years it's been but ignore context, which is essentially saying "I'm sick of the Red Wings not being good! Wah!" Which, yeah.. no shit.

This isn't a fun period as a fan but reading the thread about the Sharks on the main board made me realize we could have it even worse. The fans there are going through a rebuild after a long period of success that yielded zero Cup wins and 1 Finals appearance.

Wings fans got 4 Cups and 2 other appearances in the Finals.

 

[SirloinUB]

The team is coming out of a challenging schedule close to .500 and the pitchforks are out. It is wild.

Here is the thing. You don't have to love where the team is at - I was actually expecting a step back myself but it doesn't mean yzerman has failed.

The team is still paying Abdelkader - technically speaking, Yzerman hasn't even finished cleaning up Holland's mess. That alone isn't making or breaking this team but It speaks to how he inherited a truly rotten mess.

When Yzerman took over he had a team with a pile of washed up, negative value assets, a barren prospect cupboard and a few youngish guys that ultimately weren't needle movers (Mantha, Bert, AA, Veleno). From that point with absolutely no lottery luck Yzerman has accomplished three things:

• Built a solid foundation of U25 players
• He has maintained a clean cap sheet while significantly raising the floor of this team.
• Built a team that has statistically performed better each and every season.

This all occurred despite the fact that Yzerman had zero lottery luck. Id argue he's actually been quite successful. The God damn Maple Leafs had all of the rebuilding luck in there world and have one playoff series win and yet you guys are ready to hang a guy who had absolutely nothing break his way despite the fact he has improved every aspect of this team.

The harsh reality is rebuilds are rarely linear and as Holland famously said, can take 10 years. If Yzerman is fired, this would be one of the most coveted GM jobs in the league because of how well he has set this team up.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Two problems:

1. Drafting has been going after high character, high floor, low ceiling players that leave the forward core to be severely untalented.

2. Trying to sign players who overachieved in their FA year on more talented teams to fill larger roles on a less talented Red Wings team hoping it would take them to the next level.

If Detroit had a couple more high impact kids bringing on Compher/Copp/Holl like players would be not great but not bad. But these two things combined leaves Detroit in the position to be too good to get high impact players in the draft and too bad to realistically make the playoffs in their current configuration.

Who specifically are these non-"high character, high floor, low ceiling" players Yzerman should have been targeting in the draft? It helps to be able to tie this to actual names.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I agree with the first point. However one can also spin it around and say they have drafted highly responsible players and not high flash, terrible defend players, meaning even if they had all the talent they wouldn't win and people would complain that they were bad defensively. So a doomed if you do and doomed if you don't situation when it comes to comments from fans.
Maybe they haven't seen those specific offensive talents they think would be powerful enoughIt or they haven't been available to them in their draft position.

It's by no means unacceptable to not make the playoffs this season. Should have made it last year because of the position and form they were in, but in reality had no business being they last season. They need to keep building it stone by stone and piece by piece, if make the playoffs great and if not its okay. Better to keep growing and stay on plan and the team will become stronger for it. No point making hasty idiotic decisions at this point.

Why don't we use some names here. What you are really trying to say is that they should not have taken Kasper or Danielson. If you mean that, just come out and say it. The thing is, they didn't sign those two because they were low ceiling, high floor, high character (whatever the f*** that means). They signed them because they were the best available centers who realistically projected to play center at the NHL level. Now, if you don't want us to draft centers, that is fine. You should, however, probably have some other realistic strategy for acquiring them.

 

[schuelma24]

Why don't we use some names here. What you are really trying to say is that they should not have taken Kasper or Danielson. If you mean that, just come out and say it. The thing is, they didn't sign those two because they were low ceiling, high floor, high character (whatever the f*** that means). They signed them because they were the best available centers who realistically projected to play center at the NHL level. Now, if you don't want us to draft centers, that is fine. You should, however, probably have some other realistic strategy for acquiring them.

I'd also like to hear who realistically should have been chosen at those spots instead.

In Kasper's year, I heard a lot about how it should have been Savoie. How's that working out?

Dvorsky over Danielson..ehh I'm not convinced at all. Yeah yeah, ... he has 2 more points in the AHL so far.

 

[Retire91]

2026????

He cannot have an endless runway. It’s unacceptable if they’re not in the postseason this spring.

He’s in year six. It’s irrelevant what the team looked like when he got here.

If you didn't realize from the beginning that this was going to be a 5-8 year rebuild considering the condition of the team Holland left then I don't know what to tell you. Yzerman wasn't going to Burke era Tornoto his way to perpetual mediocrity he was going to build through the draft. Without a top 3 pick most players need to bake 3-5 years to even become NHL'ers

Not to mention the team has gotten incrementally better every single season. One of Yzerman's many strengths is he doesn't pay attention to outside pressures. You could have a revolving door of GM's come in with a bunch of temporary shortcuts and we make the playoffs and then get destroyed first round like Holland streak days. I prefer the guy who is committed to building a core that will open a lengthy and legit competitive window.

Honestly I think most of the criticisms are just this

 

[SirKillalot]

Why don't we use some names here. What you are really trying to say is that they should not have taken Kasper or Danielson. If you mean that, just come out and say it. The thing is, they didn't sign those two because they were low ceiling, high floor, high character (whatever the f*** that means). They signed them because they were the best available centers who realistically projected to play center at the NHL level. Now, if you don't want us to draft centers, that is fine. You should, however, probably have some other realistic strategy for acquiring them.

I am not the one saying it, I was answering posters who say Detroit have drafted what they see as lower ceiling higher floor type of players in the draft. Meaning less flash, more reliable players projected on paper. My belief is Detroit management believe those will be better offensively than what the posters who gives the critique think if given the right guidance as I think they believe those guys have the right mentality to do so. For example Kasper and Danielson.

And that they haven't drafted flashy forwards as in their opinion they see big flaws that are more difficult to rectify in their future development. So that's why they haven't drafted many if any of those types of players. For example Eiserman as being one.

I like you also would like to see who those people or other people with those opinions think they should have selected instead who they feel are high ceiling players who will make it and actually be big contributors in a top 6 role.

 

[rangersblues]

It's not an excuse - its reality. This team had to spend cap dollars that summer.

Your second point is different issue all together.

Yes they had to spend the money for that season. They didn't have to lock themselves into contracts of that length for that quality of players.

 

[SirKillalot]

Yes they had to spend the money for that season. They didn't have to lock themselves into contracts of that length for that quality of players.

And which players would want to sign there for those short term contracts you talk about?

 

[SantosHalper]

You can't do good rebuild in this league anymore if you don't draft 1/2 OA on a consistent basis.

frankly speaking, our rebuld already failed. some fans just cannot accept this fact for some reason. we have two options: start over again or build a good D with good goalies

Ridiculous claims.

Avs didn't contend shit with 1 OA MacKinnon, not until they got 4 OA Makar and 10 OA Rantanen and they actually had the heart to wait until were ready and fully develop.

Both Rantanen and Makar would go in top-2 in their re-drafts. Number that matters more than actual draft overall number, i don't understand the obsession over it. Wings fans of all people should know that.

And you complete ignore the fact that not every draft class offer MacKinnon/Makar-level players, if you are lucky you get Nugent-Hopkins/Ekblad's but there is also chance you end up with Yakupov/Cam Barker-types. Not to even mention the draft lottery, Wings tanked many times and closes we could get was the 4th pick.

You talk about building a good defense and goalies. Wings got Cossa and Augustine, both in the top-5 in goalie prospects lists. Currently our defense is carried by 23 and 21-year old d-men and 2 other prospects in the system who has top-4 potential.

Since 2019 Wings has picked in the 1st round 8 times and only 2 of them has played more than 2 seasons in NHL. 4 of them are currently playing in NHL. One the 1st round picks has just started his pro career and 2 of them plays in Europe. And one of them is a goalie, whom takes a lot longer time to be fully develop than the other positions. First mid/late round pick made his debut and immediately outplayed veteran, who got traded away. Other one, Mazur, ain't far away making his debut.

Ridiculous claim to say that rebuild has failed when prospects are finally starting to take spots in the team and plugs are starting to get traded.

and test our luck with drafting star forwards 8n the following 3-5 years. I guess the latter option will be executed by Steve Y. we might get competitive again by 2028-2030.

What makes you so sure that players picked in next 3-5 years would develop faster than the players we have picked already?

Filip Forsberg and Pasta got picked around the same slot and 10 picks later than MBN, is there any particular reason why he cannot rise to be a star forward? Bergeron got picked 36 picks later Danielson, there's nothing that would stop Danielson rising to that level. Our star forwards could already be here, they don't always need to be stars at 17 to eventually become a star players. Every players has it's own development path.

You are also ignoring trades, draft ain't the only place to built a team. 18,3 million in cap space for next season alone and Larkin, Seider and Raymond are signed. And nearly 40 million in cap space for the season after that. There will be a time when Yzerman starts moving surplus prospects and draft picks for a player that we are missing.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yes they had to spend the money for that season. They didn't have to lock themselves into contracts of that length for that quality of players.

Based on what? Do you really think Yzerman gave Copp 5 years when he could've gotten him for shorter?

And for the record, I do think Yzerman has a hard row to hoe given the Wings getting absolutely screwed on picks. When the team truly bottomed out it was a weak draft year AND they fell back a ridiculous number of spots.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Based on what? Do you really think Yzerman gave Copp 5 years when he could've gotten him for shorter?

And for the record, I do think Yzerman has a hard row to hoe given the Wings getting absolutely screwed on picks. When the team truly bottomed out it was a weak draft year AND they fell back a ridiculous number of spots.

Even not counting those years, usually a team bad for that long moves up somewhat, somewhere. We just kept moving back. Some years lucky to stay.

Still crazy when you look at it. Just kept watching New Jersey jump over us.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Who specifically are these non-"high character, high floor, low ceiling" players Yzerman should have been targeting in the draft? It helps to be able to tie this to actual names.

i sometimes can't tell if y'all are being intentionally obtuse or you really have no idea what other teams draft. there are plenty of high skill, high(er) risk guys every year that yzerman does not like drafting, in the 1st round and plenty beyond. i'll stick with just the 1st:

2024 - Trevor Connelly, Michael Hage, Liam Greentree instead of MBN
2023 - Benson (really wanted), Wood, Perrault (really wanted him), Sale instead of Danielson
2022 - Miroshnichenko, Yurov, Nazar, Savoie instead of Kasper

I'm not saying we should always be taking this kind of player (or you end up like buffalo), but you need some balance, and Yzerman has not been balanced in his time here. It's funny that the one player they targeted in the 1st round with really high upside and really high risk - ASP - is now our best prospect and the only potential elite/franchise non-NHL player we have in the system.

Many of those guys will bust, whereas MBN/Danielson/Kasper will at least be 3rd liners. But the question that I always ask, and I still haven't gotten a good response, is what is the point of drafting low end 2nd/high end 3rd liners in the 1st round?

You can find these players in FA every single year, without too much difficulty. Copp is a very good third liner. Compher is a good third liner. Rasmussen is a good third liner. Fischer is a good third liner. All these guys are not hard to find.

What is hard to find is the elite forwards that can drive play, and we should be taking a risk to get those players in the 1st round.

How would the future of this team look if we took at least one of Gabriel Perrault instead of Danielson or Miro instead of Kasper? I think much better, because those guys have true elite upside.

At some point draft position is not an excuse. Yzerman has to be held responsible if he's passing half a decade with the team looking worse than it did last year.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Let's be honest if we picked Benson, Hage and Savoie we would be bitching still.

 

[rangersblues]

Based on what? Do you really think Yzerman gave Copp 5 years when he could've gotten him for shorter?

And for the record, I do think Yzerman has a hard row to hoe given the Wings getting absolutely screwed on picks. When the team truly bottomed out it was a weak draft year AND they fell back a ridiculous number of spots.

Sorry. I agree. It was absolutely vital they signed a stud like Copp. Where would they be without him