Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

Carmine Cirella

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Jun 29, 2023
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I still think Yzerman can get this team into the playoffs, but as a fan my aspirations don't end at 86-89 game seasons. I want a future cup contender and I personally don't see that in the cards as of right now with what we currently have in the pipeline.
I don't think you can realistically plan or predict exactly who becomes a cup contender and who doesn't. Look at the Oilers and how long it took them to even make it to the finals. Even worse, look at the Leafs and their "plan the parade" core that hasn't accomplished anything other than winnig one single round in the playoffs. On the other side look at the Panthers and all their guys that they acquired via waivers or (mostly cheap) trades...I mean, I doubt anyone saw Gustav Forsling as a No.1 d-man on a Stanley cup winner and Carter Verhaeghe as a 40-goal scorer a couple a years ago.

So, aiming for now, to build a team that consistently makes the playoffs (and ideally at least is able to win a round here and there) seems like a sensible goal to me. After that we can talk about serious cup aspirations. Maybe we're still missing a piece (or two, or three) by then, but maybe we also get lucky and someone like Danielsson actually becomes more than we expect right now, or Raymond takes another step in his development, or we draft someone else who overachieves relative to his draft position, or we are able to trade for someone like Florida did with Tkachuck.
 

Henkka

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Biggest misunderstanding in here is that it's the prospects and prospect-way only to become a Stanley Cup contender or Champion.

Prospects are just one part of the business. Not all. They are the familiar guys we watch for years, and we can expect things from them easier. It's harder to expect unexpected, like getting Tarasenko from nowhere.

Lately we have seen, how players will want to join good teams (as UFA or via trades), and just becoming a good team and better team, step-by-step every year, will increase the chances every year, to get better and better players.

Vegas Golden Knights didn't need a prospect pipeline to becoming a Champion. They just became a deep cap-compliant team, which players liked to join and join and join.

Players will know the good and rising teams. Multiple of our UFAs have talked about Red Wings as the one. Just keep building smart. Avoid a losing team. Stay cap compliant.

Yzerman is building Vegas-way the "same" at Detroit. Short-term deals, cap open all the time for new players, waiting for big trade opportunity or getting UFAs in. Never long-term.

When cap is on a good shape, you can even live with your bad contracts, and those won't detriment the team. People bash those contracts like mad, but in big picture, they won't really affect for the on-ice product. We live it through. Steals are made on other positions. Florida and Edmonton both had good deals and bad deals. More good than bad. Both did reach the finals.

The "next Eichel" or "Stone" is happening on some day. And when you have a good team, still with a cap space you can add on, without losing anything significant except futures, you complete that trade and never look back.

Those the days we are heading on.
 
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WaW

Armchair Assistant Coffee Gofer for the GM
Mar 18, 2017
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I don't think you can realistically plan or predict exactly who becomes a cup contender and who doesn't. Look at the Oilers and how long it took them to even make it to the finals. Even worse, look at the Leafs and their "plan the parade" core that hasn't accomplished anything other than winnig one single round in the playoffs. On the other side look at the Panthers and all their guys that they acquired via waivers or (mostly cheap) trades...I mean, I doubt anyone saw Gustav Forsling as a No.1 d-man on a Stanley cup winner and Carter Verhaeghe as a 40-goal scorer a couple a years ago.

So, aiming for now, to build a team that consistently makes the playoffs (and ideally at least is able to win a round here and there) seems like a sensible goal to me. After that we can talk about serious cup aspirations. Maybe we're still missing a piece (or two, or three) by then, but maybe we also get lucky and someone like Danielsson actually becomes more than we expect right now, or Raymond takes another step in his development, or we draft someone else who overachieves relative to his draft position, or we are able to trade for someone like Florida did with Tkachuck.

Having either McDavid or Draisatl, let alone both, is more than enough to convince any fan to buy into the idea of cup contention. Almost every cup winner has a top 10 center in the league on it, and Edmonton has two of those. The support pieces needed are much easier to find than those core pieces are. Most GMs not named Ken Holland or Peter Chiarelli probably could have done something seriously impressive with that core.

I think this is a totally separate discussion. I would very much believe in Yzerman building a cup contender around McDavid and Draisaitl. My issue if I were an Oilers fan is how terribly wasteful the executive hires are.

I don’t really understand that line of thinking. Take a 1:1 copy of last season’s team and add a legit #1 goalie (Cossa? Augustine?), another couple of top 4D (Edvinsson? ASP? Wallinder?), and maybe a decent depth defensive winger (MBN? Mazur?) and that’s easily a 100 point team or more.

That doesn’t even involve Kasper/Danielson being anything special or MBN becoming a star instead of a depth guy or Raymond continuing to improve.

The path is fairly easy to see imo.

I think we just disagree on what a true cup contender is, which is fine, by the way, we don't have to agree on that. To me, 100 point team ain't it just by itself.

100 point team where Larkin is clearly a top 10 center, such as for putting up a point per game while also a selke finalist, or with another center who is in that sort of tier, would maybe do it for me. We are also missing alot of support pieces to actually get anywhere near there right now as well.

Maybe I'm just not as high on our prospect pool as alot of you are. I see us being ranked near the top of prospect rankings due to a high quantity of prospects ranging from a "B" to "A-" grade, not because of anyone coming up who is going to be dominant as his position. These are players I hope to replace aging vets in our lineup at perhaps a slightly improved level of play. I don't see high end difference makers, and goalies are way too much of a crapshoot to buy into Cossa/Augustine hype as NHLers. Love them as prospects for sure, I'm just done with putting any stock into goalies until I see them play well in the NHL over more than just a small sample size.
 
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RED WINGS STOMP

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We would of been a 100 pt team last year if Larkin plays 82 games.

Simply put, our playoff hopes next year will ride on his availability.
 
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SirloinUB

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Aug 20, 2010
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I wouldn't say he is going wrong. His books are good. I just wish we had more high end offensive prospects in the pool.

It's a fair concern but I also low key love our prospect group. Ed, Danielson, Kasper, ASP, MBN, Cossa, Johansson, Mazur + whatever else filters through is shaping up to be a fast team that is difficult to play against with underrated skill.

I can see a team where the sum is greater than the individual parts.
 
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Henkka

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Why would Husso be slotted above Talbot? I know Talbot is a guy that gets little respect because he’s not a big name, but he was like 7th in save % last year amongst starter and I think 5th in goals against. Husso was below average.

He shouldn't be.

Talbot 54 starts at last season
Lyon 44
Husso 19

Maybe they just put them in order based on salary.
 

Ed Ned and Leddy

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The buck does stop with Yzerman and I don't want to suggest he should be unaccountable for the results. In my mind its a tough balance to strike - apologies for the wall of text coming your way.

You initially framed this "if you were Illitch" and in that context my response may disappoint you. I prefer to evaluate the process and the balance of good decisions vs bad decisions rather than timelines.

In that regard, there are a few main categories to consider:

Drafting: Many of his drafts are too early to evaluate but I don't think we would take anyone drafted after Seider, Raymond at this point. Its probably a little early to say on Edvinsson/Cossa. Maybe Johnston? Cossa/Wallstadt seems like a coin flip at this point. Either way nothing to fault yet. He hasn't produced anything after the 1st round but 1) you shouldn't expect much, 2) it's probably too early to definitively evaluate those picks with a few still trending well. Many would rather see him swing for a different archetype but anything after Ed is too early to evaluate.

UFA Signings:
-
I know the Holl, Chairot and Copp deals aren't popular but overall I think Yzerman has been solid. They are middling players but they only represent 15% of the cap. Keep in mind this team has barely operated above the salary cap floor - if it wasn't these guys - Yzerman would have signed someone else of similar value. Im not sure the other options were truly better. Definitely not perfect but he also hasn't hamstrung the team.
- My biggest critique here isn't so much who he signed and for how much but how many guys he signed. He jammed up the back end so much so that he had to move a 2nd to help alleviate the log jam. This is his biggest mistake in my eye.
-I liked the Kane pickup, same with Compher. Id even argue Copp has been better than he gets credit for (still overpaid). This summer he avoided any big deals that would hamstring the team moving forward.

Trades:
- We can complain about the Walman trade but reality seems to show he had no value across the league. Can we expect him to get value for pieces no-one else values? (I fault him for having so many dman that this move was necessary more so than the value of the trade itself).
- Debrincat was a solid trade.
- I liked to original Walman trade even if it didnt work out well in the long run (nothing lost ultimately).
- The mantha trade was good.
- I think everything else was fairly minor.

Internal Signings: Thus far he has done well. I liked the Larkin Contract. The Rasmussen extension seems solid. Ultimately this summer will be his biggest measuring stick in this category.

Off Ice Considerations One of his 1st pieces of business was to improve the conditioning and rehab of this team. This seems to be going well. Despite being in a rebuild he has kept fans in the arena. This is obviously important from a financial angle. Overall Im not sure there is much to consider.

Player Development: It's a little early to truly evaluate but the returns seem good so far. His effort to have guys like Kronwall working with euros and cleary working with the NAs seems to be working. I think things are on track here.


Of course, these are just my opinions and general thoughts. Others are free to disagree but on balance I think Yzerman has done more good than bad across these categories.



In terms of strategy and process I think there is validity in this critique from @Suggs. But I also think there is merit in insulating the youth and building things back up before a losing mentality sinks in on our young players.


Where does that leave us? Well still outside of the playoffs but overall he's is making more good moves than bad moves and hasn't made any earth shattering mistakes. Truthfully with each passing season he increasingly owns the results. In my mind, he has still has a lengthy leash until the abdelkader buyout is off the books - he quite literally still has some of Holland's mess on his hands (neverminded the barren roster/prospect cupboard he inherited)

I never mind a wall of text - I'm probably one of the wordier posters here. Appreciate your thoughts!

Honestly I largely agree with you here. Philosophically, I'm a believer that in competitive sports you need to have some defined parameters for success (e.g., playoffs by X date, point percentage of Y, etc.). I'm definitely open to adjusting those expectations to an extent, it's a fluid process, but I think benchmarks are important.

Ultimately though I think that are approaches are probably two different ways of reaching the same result. When it comes to drafting and development in particular, I think our success (or lack thereof) will start to reveal itself in the next couple years. If the prospects we believe in develop into what you hope, you should make the playoffs soon-ish. If not, that's when we likely need to consider a "re-tool" or something similar (trading Larkin-aged players to refresh the talent, for example).

I'm largely supportive of the work Yzerman has done so far. He was dealt a tough hand and many, many execs could do a worse job. I do have criticisms (mostly with the roster blue line), but I'm cautiously optimistic about the next couple years of Wings hockey.
 
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Henkka

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It's funny when people see a "goalie mess", when Yzerman just said, that they like multiple options and we'll see how the situation develops throughout the season. Best guy will steal the job and they move on.

So there's the truth. He creates options. He has Plan A and B and C, if things won't work.

It's not a mess. It's a plan.
 

OldnotDeadWings

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Sep 18, 2013
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Love the deliberately provocative thread title.

SY hasn't made a significantly wrong step yet with the rebuild. Nor is it just a rebuild. He's rebuilding while at the same time trying to compete. These two goals inevitably conflict, friction created by opposing forces rubbing against each other and possibly preventing the fastest attainment of either goal. This friction is further enhanced by many fans, perhaps even SY at the beginning, underestimating the massive amount of work that reaching either goal required. Failure to reach either goal as quickly as many fans want results in the conclusion by a few/many/whatever that he's doing a half-assed job at both.

Why is the rebuilf trackperceived as taking too long? Given the few good resources SY inherited, literally only one good player worth keeping long-term and only three prospects with any potential utility (Ras, Veleno, Berggren), and given lack of Draft access to likely star players, the rebuild was and still is going to be driven by volume of good/very good first-round Draft picks rather than around one or two star quality picks. Accumulation of volume takes time, as witnessed by only two of the first seven first-rounders having passed 150 NHL games. The other five have about 25 combined games, all but one of that by Edvinsson. We're two years at least away from having a minimum necessary volume of potentially impactful young players. To what extent has the rebuild been compromised by the goal of competing now? Very little. The only Draft asset traded was a late first. No top prospect has been traded. The only negative is perhaps lower Draft slots, but it's debatable if any of the guys picked in the top 10 wouldn't have been picked anyway with a slightly better Draft position, and negativity toward the two C prospects IMO is premature and subjective. This year's 15th OA pick would probably have been different with another top 10 pick, but we're at least two years away from knowing what the Draft consequences of that push for a playoff spot will be. The only negative to the rebuild track IMO is what seems like a mediocre job at best with post first-round Draft picks, but that's subject to change. We simply don't know yet what many of those post-first round picks can be and really only Johansson might have been ready to make a first impression bynow.

Why is the compete now trac perceived as taking too long. when there's been obvious improvement every year? There are good reasons for frustration. There has been wastage of opportunity with a few poor signings. There is a never-ending but sometimes reasonable debate about coach quality. I'm as patient as anybody, but I believe keeping Edvinsson in GR for more than half a season compromised both the rebuild and compete now tracks. In the big picture it doesn't make any difference, Edvinsson won't be any different in two years for having 25 fewer games on his current resume, and making or missing last season's playoffs will be irrelevant to what a much different roster will be doing in 3-4 years. Fans naturally live in the moment and there is always a desire to do more to reach short-term goals. Every move SY makes to improve the compete now agenda has been done with the intention of doing the least possible damage to the rebuild track, but it's easy to lose sight of that when Copp does nothing with the puck, Petry is getting 20 minutes and Holl sitting out for the 27th straight game.

My grade for the rebuild track so far: A-minus. My grade for the compete now track, B.
 
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OgeeOgelthorpe

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Feb 29, 2020
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The 2021 offseason when Seattle came into the league was a big missed opportunity. That's the year I look at and think "what if" more than the others.

Detroit had so much cap space they didn't know what to do with it. There were a few FAs that would have been great adds while the kids were developing (Savard, Danault, Coleman, Larsson, Oleksiak) and some guys that could have been traded to Detroit for late picks when it was obvious they were getting exposed/picked. (Eberle, Gourde, etc) If we built a solid foundation that year instead of waiting until 2022 to splurge I think Detroit would have a better shot at the postseason last season and the upcoming year.

2022 I wasn't too upset about the offseason. I was happy about Copp getting signed after his run in NY. It's too bad that he had core surgery to really limit him.
2023 wasn't awful overall but we're seeing that Holl was really a spare part we didn't need to burden ourselves with. Yzerman's conservative team building approach here bit us in the ass.
 

LongTimeDRWF

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Love the deliberately provocative thread title.

SY hasn't made a significantly wrong step yet with the rebuild. Nor is it just a rebuild. He's rebuilding while at the same time trying to compete. These two goals inevitably conflict, friction created by opposing forces rubbing against each other and possibly preventing the fastest attainment of either goal. This friction is further enhanced by many fans, perhaps even SY at the beginning, underestimating the massive amount of work that reaching either goal required. Failure to reach either goal as quickly as many fans want results in the conclusion by a few/many/whatever that he's doing a half-assed job at both.

Why is the rebuilf trackperceived as taking too long? Given the few good resources SY inherited, literally only one good player worth keeping long-term and only three prospects with any potential utility (Ras, Veleno, Berggren), and given lack of Draft access to likely star players, the rebuild was and still is going to be driven by volume of good/very good first-round Draft picks rather than around one or two star quality picks. Accumulation of volume takes time, as witnessed by only two of the first seven first-rounders having passed 150 NHL games. The other five have about 25 combined games, all but one of that by Edvinsson. We're two years at least away from having a minimum necessary volume of potentially impactful young players. To what extent has the rebuild been compromised by the goal of competing now? Very little. The only Draft asset traded was a late first. No top prospect has been traded. The only negative is perhaps lower Draft slots, but it's debatable if any of the guys picked in the top 10 wouldn't have been picked anyway with a slightly better Draft position, and negativity toward the two C prospects IMO is premature and subjective. This year's 15th OA pick would probably have been different with another top 10 pick, but we're at least two years away from knowing what the Draft consequences of that push for a playoff spot will be. The only negative to the rebuild track IMO is what seems like a mediocre job at best with post first-round Draft picks, but that's subject to change. We simply don't know yet what many of those post-first round picks can be and really only Johansson might have been ready to make a first impression bynow.

Why is the compete now trac perceived as taking too long. when there's been obvious improvement every year? There are good reasons for frustration. There has been wastage of opportunity with a few poor signings. There is a never-ending but sometimes reasonable debate about coach quality. I'm as patient as anybody, but I believe keeping Edvinsson in GR for more than half a season compromised both the rebuild and compete now tracks. In the big picture it doesn't make any difference, Edvinsson won't be any different in two years for having 25 fewer games on his current resume, and making or missing last season's playoffs will be irrelevant to what a much different roster will be doing in 3-4 years. Fans naturally live in the moment and there is always a desire to do more to reach short-term goals. Every move SY makes to improve the compete now agenda has been done with the intention of doing the least possible damage to the rebuild track, but it's easy to lose sight of that when Copp does nothing with the puck, Petry is getting 20 minutes and Holl sitting out for the 27th straight game.

My grade for the rebuild track so far: A-minus. My grade for the compete now track, B.
I agree with this take, I have been around long enough to see several of these movies, being a GM is not easy and not unlike a batter in the box. Some pitches you don't swing at and the ones you think you can hit, you swing away.

A- is fair given the starting point, and yes compete now has not been as good, those are due to foul balls hit, but I am OK with most of those, it is protecting the plate, injuries have played a part, but even out of the so called bad contracts, Holl does seem to hurt, but based on the day, it was one the wings would easily live with if Petry didn't want to come home.

No long term injuries to a veteran defense crew for an entire season does not happen too often.

Some better collective team defense will certainly help their cause, the kinder schedule this year should allow for a lot more practice time through the season, this should help the team improve.
 

Axel Sandy Pelikan

Sugar-free Rock Star
May 11, 2023
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I never mind a wall of text - I'm probably one of the wordier posters here. Appreciate your thoughts!

Honestly I largely agree with you here. Philosophically, I'm a believer that in competitive sports you need to have some defined parameters for success (e.g., playoffs by X date, point percentage of Y, etc.). I'm definitely open to adjusting those expectations to an extent, it's a fluid process, but I think benchmarks are important.

Ultimately though I think that are approaches are probably two different ways of reaching the same result. When it comes to drafting and development in particular, I think our success (or lack thereof) will start to reveal itself in the next couple years. If the prospects we believe in develop into what you hope, you should make the playoffs soon-ish. If not, that's when we likely need to consider a "re-tool" or something similar (trading Larkin-aged players to refresh the talent, for example).

I'm largely supportive of the work Yzerman has done so far. He was dealt a tough hand and many, many execs could do a worse job. I do have criticisms (mostly with the roster blue line), but I'm cautiously optimistic about the next couple years of Wings hockey.

I agree that benchmarks are important... but I add the caveat that you have to be willing to adjust to reality when you're considering them.

It bothers me to no end when the "But he hasn't done X in Y years" while completely ignoring the fact that last year is a playoff year without the entire team going into the tank for a month when Larkin got hurt. They had enough vet pieces that "next man up" should have been enough to get them one additional win. Not saying they'd have to float at .500 no Larkin, but they literally ripped off something like a double-digit pointless streak.

Like say this year that Seider, Raymond, and larkin all miss 30+ games. Is the fanbase still going to be in a nit if the Wings miss out in the last week on making the playoffs with a Danielson or Kasper-led late season push?

I suppose I just don't understand how anyone looks at the 19-20 Wings and their pipeline and the 23-24/24-25 Wings with their pipeline with the opinion... "You know what guys, I don't think Yzerman is doing a good job.
 

Hobnobs

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It's funny when people see a "goalie mess", when Yzerman just said, that they like multiple options and we'll see how the situation develops throughout the season. Best guy will steal the job and they move on.

So there's the truth. He creates options. He has Plan A and B and C, if things won't work.

It's not a mess. It's a plan.

tbf. A plan can be a mess. Not saying it is but those two are not mutually exclusive.
 
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lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
11,029
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Yzerman said rebuild true draft, here's his team
Cossa , Augustine
Edvinsson Seider
Buium ASP
Wallinder Cleveland
Anton and Albert Johansson, Whipple
Becher Danielson Raymond
Mazur Kasper MBN
Buchelnikov Plante Soderblom
NDN Savage Lombardi
 

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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We went from one of the worst teams in the 'history' of the NHL to 1 point from the playoffs in 5 seasons? With the Teresanko signing we are 1 center away from an actual NHL top 6. We are a second line center, a top pairing D, and a starting goalie away from a perennial playoff team. Granted this is not the cup window team yet. But it's the beginning of the end of sucking.

Post Holland's last Detroit roster in the hockey history board and ask what teams were worse than this one. Yzerman took that team to 1 point away from the playoffs in 5 seasons.
 

DamonDRW

Registered User
Dec 23, 2007
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Yzerman said rebuild true draft, here's his team
Cossa , Augustine
Edvinsson Seider
Buium ASP
Wallinder Cleveland
Anton and Albert Johansson, Whipple
Becher Danielson Raymond
Mazur Kasper MBN
Buchelnikov Plante Soderblom
NDN Savage Lombardi
Good potential for goaltending, excellent D. A bit lacking at offense but these are what trades and free agents for.

With a bit more luck this roster would have included someone like Stutzle or other high end center.

Yzerman did the best he could with drafting.
 

lidstromiscool

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May 5, 2007
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We went from one of the worst teams in the 'history' of the NHL to 1 point from the playoffs in 5 seasons? With the Teresanko signing we are 1 center away from an actual NHL top 6. We are a second line center, a top pairing D, and a starting goalie away from a perennial playoff team. Granted this is not the cup window team yet. But it's the beginning of the end of sucking.

Post Holland's last Detroit roster in the hockey history board and ask what teams were worse than this one. Yzerman took that team to 1 point away from the playoffs in 5 seasons.
There are literally 31 other teams in the NHL that are a top 6 center, top pair D, and #1 goalie away from perennial playoffs teams. And with being one of the oldest teams in the league, already against the cap with no more high draft choices coming, its not like Detroit is in a great spot moving forward.

Holland's last roster in Detroit was bad, but it wasn't historically bad. There were actually a lot of nice pieces. Larkin was a point per game center, Athanasiou had 30 goals, Nyquist/Mantha/Bertuzzi all had good years, Hronek established himself as a 22 year old top pair D. Yzerman took over and cleaned house which led to perhaps the worst season in NHL history.

Yzerman nailed his first few 1st round picks, but outside that his drafts have been terrible.
2019 draft he got Seider, but with 12 other draft picks including 3 second rounders, he got nothing else.
2020 he drafted Raymond but nothing else with 11 other picks including another 3 second rounders.
 

Pavels Dog

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Yzerman nailed his first few 1st round picks, but outside that his drafts have been terrible.
2019 draft he got Seider, but with 12 other draft picks including 3 second rounders, he got nothing else.
2020 he drafted Raymond but nothing else with 11 other picks including another 3 second rounders.
Johansson will literally be on the NHL roster this season. Söderblom & Tuomisto have a chance to play games going forward. Wallinder definitely still has potential.
Sebrango was used as part of the deal to get Debrincat.

Maybe you view that as nothing, that’s your right. But this is drafting. You can’t bank on getting multiple impact players each draft. Take the teams you feel are the best in the NHL at drafting and you’ll easily find awful drafts from them. It could be that 2021/2022/2023/2024 is where we’ll have one of those great drafts of getting 2+ players with meaningful NHL careers, who knows. But hitting on Seider/Raymond disqualifies reasonable people from calling those drafts anything less than ”good” regardless of what ends up being the outcome of the later picks.
 
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Dotter

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Yzerman nailed his first few 1st round picks, but outside that his drafts have been terrible.
2019 draft he got Seider, but with 12 other draft picks including 3 second rounders, he got nothing else.
2020 he drafted Raymond but nothing else with 11 other picks including another 3 second rounders.

You need to GO BACK and study the NHL draft history. You have unrealistic expectations.

If you get TWO players out of a draft, you had a good draft. If you get THREE players, you had a great draft. I think DRWs get three players out of 2019. And mind you, Yzerman just became GM just before the draft and didn't have all his personnel in place yet. Draper didn't even get the position of directer of amature scouting literally like 7-days before the 2019 draft.

Please be reasonable when studying the past.
 

Snuggs

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Jun 24, 2018
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Yzerman said rebuild true draft, here's his team
Cossa , Augustine
Edvinsson Seider
Buium ASP
Wallinder Cleveland
Anton and Albert Johansson, Whipple
Becher Danielson Raymond
Mazur Kasper MBN
Buchelnikov Plante Soderblom
NDN Savage Lombardi
All legitimate HOF'ers.
 
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Run the Jewels

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There are literally 31 other teams in the NHL that are a top 6 center, top pair D, and #1 goalie away from perennial playoffs teams. And with being one of the oldest teams in the league, already against the cap with no more high draft choices coming, its not like Detroit is in a great spot moving forward.

Holland's last roster in Detroit was bad, but it wasn't historically bad. There were actually a lot of nice pieces. Larkin was a point per game center, Athanasiou had 30 goals, Nyquist/Mantha/Bertuzzi all had good years, Hronek established himself as a 22 year old top pair D. Yzerman took over and cleaned house which led to perhaps the worst season in NHL history.

Yzerman nailed his first few 1st round picks, but outside that his drafts have been terrible.
2019 draft he got Seider, but with 12 other draft picks including 3 second rounders, he got nothing else.
2020 he drafted Raymond but nothing else with 11 other picks including another 3 second rounders.
Let's be real: guys like Athanasiou, Mantha, Nyquist and Bertuzzi are currently busy bouncing around the league. They aren't core pieces you build around. Holland's drafts were horrific, you just need to look at the results since 2005: Larkin and a bunch of misses with the occasionally useful NHL player. He didn't give his best scout his best draft picks, he kept giving his first rounders and most of his second rounders to his totally inept North American scouting department.

By contrast, Yzerman has given the vast majority of his best draft picks to Hakan Andersson. Here are the results:
  • #1 D: Moritz Seider
  • Scoring line forwards: Lucas Raymond, Michael Brandsegg-Nygaard
  • Middle 6 center: Marco Kasper
  • PP QB: Axel Sandin-Pelikka
  • Top 6 D: Simon Edvinsson, Anton Johansson, Albert Johansson, William Wallinder.

With Ken Holland there was no end in sight to capped out teams with mediocre talent and being on the outside looking in at a spot in the playoffs. With Yzerman, the hard work has mostly been completed and it's just a matter of time until his draft picks fill the key spots in the lineup. The vast majority of those key pieces were drafted by a guy Ken Holland totally ignored.

It's night and day. Complain about Yzerman because we are currently in the 'messy middle' where we need to rely on journeymen until the prospects are ready for NHL play, but we are in much better shape than we were when Holland has us capped out and we had one of the worst prospect pools in the entire NHL.
 

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