When will Bouchard be considered elite?

[bobbythebrain]

I've watched plenty of his games from junior to now. It doesn't change the fact that he has only put up these kinds of offensive numbers since last years playoffs, and it doesn't change the fact that a lot of his improvement came this year. I'm glad he's improved, and I'm glad he looks so good. Still not gonna call a player elite after roughly 1 season of games being elite. Unless you think he was also elite last year and the year before as well?

On what planet can you make this statement? In juniors his numbers were down right elite in production, in getting shots thru to the net and in breakout passing. You didn't watch jack sh** apparently cuz all his draft scouting reports contradict everything you just posted lolololol. More than enough video highlighted all these points also

You seriously came in here lying about watching him, or trying to pass your take with a half truth, or are just posturing to make yourself seem more educated than you are on this matter. Whatetever the scenario, totally busted dude

His junior #'s were off the charts. Your whole post is fabricated saying his #'s only came up this year. Be embarrassed by this take, cuz it's factually incorrect

His current stats are actually catching up to his junior metrics this year at the NHL level. It's called development

 

[Buck Naked]

Mentioning Bouchard in the same breath as Makar and Hughes is a hot take in itself

Unless you use numbers or eyes.

 

[CoffeyMcMan]

I hope all other teams in the league consider him to be just a product of McDavid, makes it way easier to sign him and makes offer sheets far more unlikely.

 

[Peen]

He was very good against VAN. So was Ekholm.

And, not on the back of Connor. They were both just really good.

It’s funny because I went into that series thinking Nurse isn’t THAT bad and Bouchard isn’t THAT good. Nope. Nurse was soooo bad and Bouchard/Ekholm were sooooo good.

Ceci bad as usual.

 

[AvroArrow]

I thought arrows are supposed to shoot straight? You don't. Your posts are way off the mark and you counter it by claiming anyone disagreeing with you are fanatics

Your arrows aren't just missing the mark, they are crooked

You're triggered because I said Draisaitl is a top 10 player with the potential to cement himself as an undisputed top 5 player if he keeps performing how he is.

Sit down and think about that lmao. How biased and entitled does someone have to be to start attacking a person because of that.

"Everyone else is crazy and I'm normal"

"Oilers fans definitely aren't biased towards our own players, other people are biased if they say Draisaitl has the chance to cement himself as a top 5 player in these playoffs"

 

[Frosty415]

You're triggered because I said Draisaitl is a top 10 player with the potential to cement himself as an undisputed top 5 player if he keeps performing how he is.

Sit down and think about that lmao. How biased and entitled does someone have to be to start attacking a person because of that.


"Oilers fans definitely aren't biased towards our own players, other people are biased if they say Draisaitl has the chance to cement himself as a top 5 player in these playoffs"

I'm not an Oilers fan and Drai is several tiers above Matthews

Cope.

 

[Fishy McScales]

You're triggered because I said Draisaitl is a top 10 player with the potential to cement himself as an undisputed top 5 player if he keeps performing how he is.

Sit down and think about that lmao. How biased and entitled does someone have to be to start attacking a person because of that.


"Oilers fans definitely aren't biased towards our own players, other people are biased if they say Draisaitl has the chance to cement himself as a top 5 player in these playoffs"

Lol. And Leafs fans have no bias towards Oilers players...

 

[Frosty415]

Lol. And Leafs fans have no bias towards Oilers players...

Ill never forget the threads early this season shitting on McDrai and the Oilers when they started off bad, most of the trash talking was the usual suspect Leaf fans you see in these type of threads.

Like I said earlier it's a good thing I remember their usernames, you know the same group always has an agenda.

 

[MessierII]

On what planet can you make this statement? In juniors his numbers were down right elite in production, in getting shots thru to the net and in breakout passing. You didn't watch jack sh** apparently cuz all his draft scouting reports contradict everything you just posted lolololol. More than enough video highlighted all these points also

You seriously came in here lying about watching him, or trying to pass your take with a half truth, or are just posturing to make yourself seem more educated than you are on this matter. Whatetever the scenario, totally busted dude

His junior #'s were off the charts. Your whole post is fabricated saying his #'s only came up this year. Be embarrassed by this take, cuz it's factually incorrect

His current stats are actually catching up to his junior metrics this year at the NHL level. It's called development

People forget his AHL playoff numbers too. Exact same.

 

[bobbythebrain]

People forget his AHL playoff numbers too. Exact same.

Probably more like ....selectively ignore

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Based on extreme subjectivity?

You really think Bouchard does as well as Makar or Josi on the Sharks? Cmon now.

And you know there's no way to prove a hypothetical, but use some common sense and apply it.

 

[Fishy McScales]

You really think Bouchard does as well as Makar or Josi on the Sharks? Cmon now.

And you know there's no way to prove a hypothetical, but use some common sense and apply it.

It is still a counterfactual fallacy and you make the appeal that your argument is correct on account of "common sense" which is a value conveniently determined by you.

What's worse is your fallacious argument is not even relevant to the discussion at hand, it is intended to mislead and confuse.

Whether Bouchard would be equal to a different player on a different team or not does not in fact in turn determine whether he is "elite" or not, even if we concede that the definition of "elite" is subjective.

 

[Crosby2010]

I think this season proves he is among the elite now. He might finish top 5 in Norris voting this year. Having a wicked postseason and while I too have been concerned about his sometimes casual defensive play, he's getting there. And his offense more than makes up for it. He was a 10th overall pick in 2018, so he was considered to be good in junior too. He played well at the WJC also. It takes longer for defensemen to work out the kinks in their game but there is no doubt he is making his stamp now. Should be a lock cinch on the 2026 Olympic team. Call him a product of McDavid if you want, but even just watching him this postseason you can see he is an impact player on his own. We get impatient with d-men, but he is 24 and for sure entering his peak. This is where they normally start to shine.

 

[Rowlet]

He isnt Makar but damn not even on same level as Quinn Hughes? Hughes looked like he was crying the entire playoffs...

He just looks like that all the time.

In reality, Hughes had an unreal playoffs, especially when you consider their Rel numbers.

 

[commie]

You really think Bouchard does as well as Makar or Josi on the Sharks? Cmon now.

And you know there's no way to prove a hypothetical, but use some common sense and apply it.

You really think Makar or Josi on the Sharks would be the player they are now? Hockey is a team sport.
Why does ever player get penalized for playing with McDavid? Doesn't Makar play with MacKinnon as well? Good players play with good players. Nobody ever states Makar is only good because he plays with MacK.

 

[Nicko999]

You have digressed from your initial position where you claimed that Bouchard does not have "generational" IQ, something that was never claimed as the poster in question said it was "near generational".

Many, many, many players have traits on par with generational talents. Robbie Schremp had "generational" hands, that did not make him a generational player. A player like McDavid is generational because he has skating, hands, IQ etc all in one big package.

No one has called Bouchard a generational player, but instead of cooling your jets you moved the goalposts by saying that playoffs are too small of a sample size when someone pointed out his playoff production is "generational".

What are you trying to accomplish by crapping on Bouchard's IQ in a thread about whether he is elite or not? It's his main strength along with his shot selection, and he is having a monster of a season (not just playoffs).

Are you kidding me? I said his IQ was great. How is that crapping on his IQ?

I think people need to chill a bit. I was simply arguing the point that if he had "generational IQ", he would be putting 120 pts a season. People use that word way too loosely.

And my short sample size playoff reference was simply because another poster mentioned how he was the only player to have 20 pts through 2 rounds in which doesn't mean much.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Are you kidding me? I said his IQ was great. How is that crapping on his IQ?

I think people need to chill a bit. I was simply arguing the point that if he had "generational IQ", he would be putting 120 pts a season. People use that word way too loosely.

And my short sample size playoff reference was simply because another poster mentioned how he was the only player to have 20 pts through 2 rounds in which doesn't mean much.

"Doesn't mean much" lol, it's not like that's all he's done this year and last. If you're having an elite season and then break records in the post season you should take note rather than dismiss it out of hand (and yes, let me stop you right there, that's exactly what you just did).

And my point about generational qualities is that it takes more than one to make a player generational. Were you not paying attention? You can have amazing IQ and still not put up 120 points. Hell, you or I might have "generational IQ" for all we know. We would not put up 120.

Fortunately we're not discussing whether he's generational or not; we're discussing whether he's merely elite. His near generational IQ is one of the tools that makes him elite along with his excellent shot selection.

 

[Nicko999]

"Doesn't mean much" lol, it's not like that's all he's done this year and last. If you're having an elite season and then break records in the post season you should take note rather than dismiss it out of hand (and yes, let me stop you right there, that's exactly what you just did).

And my point about generational qualities is that it takes more than one to make a player generational. Were you not paying attention? You can have amazing IQ and still not put up 120 points. Hell, you or I might have "generational IQ" for all we know. We would not put up 120.

Fortunately we're not discussing whether he's generational or not; we're discussing whether he's merely elite. His near generational IQ is one of the tools that makes him elite along with his excellent shot selection.

Here is where we disagree, hockey IQ is the most important skill a hockey player can have so if you have generational IQ, you are pretty close to being a generational D-man.

Bouchard is not generational. He is elite with great IQ. The only argument is about the use of the word generational. This is something that comes once in a generation. Are you really saying Bouchard is the smartest D-man in the last 20 years? Smarter than Nik Lidstrom for example.

As for the playoffs production, if he keeps it up for 82 games next year and gets 132 pts, I will come here and call him generational.

 

[AvroArrow]

Lol. And Leafs fans have no bias towards Oilers players...

Lmao if you knew anything about me you'd know that McDavid and Hyman are two of my favorite players in the league, you just get sensitive if I don't bow down and praise Draisaitl as some sort of god.

It's even worse because I was actually discussing Bouchard until one of your fans came in with a strawman about Draisaitl, which has spiraled this entire discussion.

I still cannot understand why and how you guys are this angry because I said he's a top 10 player with an opportunity to cement himself as a top 5 player these playoffs. You're actually angry and triggered at that and think it's some sort of attack on Draisaitl ?


And then you say leaf fans are the worst lmao

 

[Fishy McScales]

Here is where we disagree, hockey IQ is the most important skill a hockey player can have so if you have generational IQ, you are pretty close to being a generational D-man.

Bouchard is not generational. He is elite with great IQ. The only argument is about the use of the word generational. This is something that comes once in a generation. Are you really saying Bouchard is the smartest D-man in the last 20 years? Smarter than Nik Lidstrom for example.

As for the playoffs production, if he keeps it up for 82 games next year and gets 132 pts, I will come here and call him generational.

Okay, now you've completely lost the plot.

1. No one is saying he's generational. You flipped the lid when one person called his IQ "near generational" which is nowhere near the same as saying he is generational overall as a player.

2. Like I said before, many, many, MANY players have "generational" traits. Carl Hagelin had "generational" speed. That's one trait that Mario Lemieux did not possess for example. We both agree Hagelin was not generational in the slightest (I assume). You are saying that having generational IQ is enough to make a player generational which is of course completely preposterous. If Steve MacIntyre, bless his heart, had generational IQ do you think he'd put up 150 points?

3. The funniest part is you just said Bouchard is elite so we're actually agreeing. Why didn't you just come into the thread to say "hello I'm Nicko999 and I think Bouch is elite"? Would have saved us all a lot of time and effort.

Lmao if you knew anything about me you'd know that McDavid and Hyman are two of my favorite players in the league, you just get sensitive if I don't bow down and praise Draisaitl as some sort of god.

It's even worse because I was actually discussing Bouchard until one of your fans came in with a strawman about Draisaitl, which has spiraled this entire discussion.

I still cannot understand why and how you guys are this angry because I said he's a top 10 player with an opportunity to cement himself as a top 5 player these playoffs. You're actually angry and triggered at that and think it's some sort of attack on Draisaitl ?


And then you say leaf fans are the worst lmao

I just thought it was funny that you called out everyone in the thread instead of wondering why they did that. Like, maybe look in the mirror instead?

I actually haven't discussed Draisaitl with you.

 

[AvroArrow]

I just thought it was funny that you called out everyone in the thread instead of wondering why they did that. Like, maybe look in the mirror instead?

I actually haven't discussed Draisaitl with you.

I did not call out everyone, just a handful of Oilers fans that got triggered that I said Drai is a top 10 player with a chance to cement himself as a top 5 player, after they brought up Drai to me on their own when I was discussing Bouchard.

Maybe take a look at your fan base and the original posts first ?

 

[Fishy McScales]

I did not call out everyone, just a handful of Oilers fans that got triggered that I said Drai is a top 10 player with a chance to cement himself as a top 5 player, after they brought up Drai to me on their own when I was discussing Bouchard.

Maybe take a look at your fan base and the original posts first ?

There you go again, throwing around words like "fan base".

Did you consider you might have been a tad inflammatory to get a reaction out of several people? Or are you a completely innocent party in all of this that only wanted impartial hockey discussion by bringing up how a star player on the team being discussed in the thread is a bit overrated?

 

[Captain Controversy]

Bouchard is the modern Shea Weber or Zubov. He is awesome and he is only going to get better. He's 24 years old. This is awesome.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Ill never forget the threads early this season shitting on McDrai and the Oilers when they started off bad, most of the trash talking was the usual suspect Leaf fans you see in these type of threads.

Like I said earlier it's a good thing I remember their usernames, you know the same group always has an agenda.

I’d rather have stars that start seasons poorly than stars that finish them with a whimper.

 

[bobbythebrain]

It is still a counterfactual fallacy and you make the appeal that your argument is correct on account of "common sense" which is a value conveniently determined by you.

What's worse is your fallacious argument is not even relevant to the discussion at hand, it is intended to mislead and confuse.

Whether Bouchard would be equal to a different player on a different team or not does not in fact in turn determine whether he is "elite" or not, even if we concede that the definition of "elite" is subjective.

Just wait till he starts the replies claiming that he's being singled out and personally attacked.

Guy has a zillion posts in the HFOIL Bouchard thread bashing him, then pulls the victim card when someone doesn't agree with it