When will Bouchard be considered elite?

[Tobias Kahun]

Fox
McCaoy
Slavin
Hughes
Josi
Dahlin
Heiskanen
Hedman
Morrissey

And the reason I would rate all of these people above Bouchard is sustained elite play over multiple seasons.

I could probably add more d-man to my list I'd take over him, but playing with McDavid and Drai will inflate his numbers ala Hyman and Hopkins.

I'm not saying he's a bad player, and I'm not saying he won't eventually be a top 10 d-man but it takes more than one season for me to put a play as a top ten talent which he is clearly not.

Bouchards the only D in the league who plays with elite players

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Bouchards the only D in the league who plays with elite players

I never said that, but you can't deny him playing with Mcdavid and Drai would have an effect on his numbers.

 

[elmaco]

He's good, but really skinny.

 

[Frank Drebin]

He's good, but really skinny.

weird eyes

 

[elmaco]

weird eyes

I don't know, sometimes he looks like a kid sunken in his big helmet. I know he is 6'3 but doesn't strike me as the biggest guy, like Hedman for example.

 

[DJJones]

Bouchards the only D in the league who plays with elite players

I mean, you just have to point to Hyman or RNH last year. Playing with those two guys can make good players have some nutty point totals.

With Hyman and RNH they're well known vets so no one is jumping to conclusions but idea is the same.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Hughes was wildly disappointing in that series, for all the Hype he garnered this year with the Norris nomination.

Dude is the American Erik Karlsson.

Karlsson dragged his team to the finals.

Anyway, this will be a learning experience for Hughes, and I think he'll be much better next time around. He was beat up, but didn't give the impression of someone who was going to quit.

 

[PaulD]

All I've seen on here is people saying Bouchard is a PP merchant, product of Ekholm etc.

He's got 37 pts in the past 24 playoff games, he's +10 in plus minus this playoffs, 3 game winning goals. He was 4th highest scoring dman in the regular season with over a PPG and +34 in plus/minus.

I've watched a ton of Oilers games and he passes the eye test too imo. He's often the key to Oilers getting out of their own zone. And his play in the offensive zone is unmatched.

I'm just wondering what he has to do in order for people to consider him elite? He's basically setting playoff records for dmen and nobody gives him notice.

Oh he's noticed alright .
All-over the hockey pools coast to coast

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Hughes was wildly disappointing in that series, for all the Hype he garnered this year with the Norris nomination.

Dude is the American Erik Karlsson.

Posted this in the other thread but for all the talk of Hughes not playing at his best (which he wasn't for his standards):



Still a high baseline. 10 points in 13 games overall too.

 

[Gnome17]

I remember hearing about how elite Nurse was defensively when he signed his big contract.

Give it time, the reputation always lags a bit and if he keeps it up, great.

And on the contrary, Nurse is a pretty good example of why "Its just cause of McDavid and Draisaitl that Bouchard is doing well" isnt a good argument. If it was so easy Nurse would have already taken the spot Bouchard is currently in.

 

[Sens in Process]

Posted this in the other thread but for all the talk of Hughes not playing at his best (which he wasn't for his standards):



Still a high baseline. 10 points in 13 games overall too.

Does Hughes draw the toughest matchups on his team? He seems rather protected in my viewings(favourable offensive zone starts, on ice teammates and matchups). These abstract numbers are helpful but conceal a lot.

 

[CupofOil]

When his defense improves.

It has improved, it's just that some of you that roll with this narrative that he sucks defensively because he used to suck defensively but don't actually watch the games. He makes some mistakes as every Dman does but his defense has improved quite a bit, he's not a shutdown guy by any means but his defense is at least average now when considering how elite his offense is is more than good enough.

 

[Bank Shot]

Does Hughes draw the toughest matchups on his team? He seems rather protected in my viewings(favourable offensive zone starts, on ice teammates and matchups). These abstract numbers are helpful but conceal a lot.

Hughes spent more time 5v5 vs Ryan McLeod (40:27) than he did vs McDavid (39:52) really says something about the matchups Toccchet was trying to get for Hughes. McDavid plays twice the minutes as McLeod. Miller for example played 60 minutes against McDavid.

Tocchet for sure was trying to get Hughes away from McDavid rather than allowing the matchup to happen.

The kind of numbers in that chart will happen when you continuously put a guy on the ice when the puck is headed towards the offensive end.

Hughes had 70% offensive end starts to his shifts. The announcers even noticed this and mentioned how smart it was of Tocchet to let Hughes start his shifts when the puck was moving up ice so Hughes wouldn't have to "waste" his energy on defence.

So the chart says more about him being good at offence than defence.

 

[Run the Gauntlet]

Posted this in the other thread but for all the talk of Hughes not playing at his best (which he wasn't for his standards):



Still a high baseline. 10 points in 13 games overall too.

For a 24 year old that lead all D in scoring those numbers are not that great.

 

[McVespa99]

Leigt question : Is he gonna get paid more than Nurse?

I doubt he will get paid less. Oilers will have to find the will and way to move Nurse or there is a good chance they will be forced to trade Bouchard

 

[Buck Naked]

I never said that, but you can't deny him playing with Mcdavid and Drai would have an effect on his numbers.

Shall we look at Makar's numbers without MacKinnon again, perhaps? We've been through this multiple times already. All players, even the best players in the world, see their numbers heavily affected by their teammates. Just for fun though..

Bouchard without Draisait or McDavid: 2.93 GF/60 5v5. (54.29 GF%)
Makar without MacKinnon: 2.22 GF/60 5v5. (40.54 GF%)

Not sure why people still use this argument and keep a straight face while saying Makar is the best Dman in the world. Makar is. But this is normal.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Shall we look at Makar's numbers without MacKinnon again, perhaps? We've been through this multiple times already. All players, even the best players in the world, see their numbers heavily affected by their teammates. Just for fun though..

Bouchard without Draisait or McDavid: 2.93 GF/60 5v5. (54.29 GF%)
Makar without MacKinnon: 2.22 GF/60 5v5. (40.54 GF%)

Not sure why people still use this argument and keep a straight face while saying Makar is the best Dman in the world. Makar is. But this is normal.

Yup it's definitely normal for sure. Posters are generally lazy when it comes to research. It takes effort to research, and zero effort to post

A great example would be to see how many ppl have said Drai would be nothing without McDavid
Yet anyone who watches the team, or took any time to put in the effort would see Drai has performed fabulously without him. When McD had his first injury, Hall and Drai didn't miss a beat
When McD took his second injury, the RNH-Drai-Yamamoto was one of the best lines in the NHL for months

The whole Bouchard is a product of McDrai is nonsense. Put him w/ Mack and Rant and you would see similar #'s too

 

[Connor McConnor]

Nobody is fooled by this attempt to deflect

Every year we lose in the playoffs I stay off HF for a while. I get you haven’t got to experience the playoffs much lately but staying up and going into every thread about the team that beat you and crying is a pretty rough look.

 

[HockeyWooot]

I think top tier dmen is perception and reputation based so there’s always bit of a time lag, he already has made the case all season.

It was the same for Hughes who was considered a very good but non elite dmen at the start of this season, even though he already broke out last year.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Below average skater, below average defensively, great offensive awareness, amazing shot. Talented but flawed defenceman.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Below average skater, below average defensively, great offensive awareness, amazing shot. Talented but flawed defenceman.

What are his defensive stats this year? Care educate us?

 

[Oleksiak]

When he learns how to play like an NHLer in his own zone.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

What are his defensive stats this year? Care educate us?

Just based off the series with the Canucks, coughed up 2 in the D Zone that directly led to goals. Has a rare ability to get his terrific shot through traffic somehow. Pretty impressed overall with his play.

 

[JPeeper]

Good Edmonton, defend his atrocious defensive play so he can get even more than Nurse even though he is essentially just a 4th forward with the defensive awareness of a chinchilla.

Dallas is going to expose him hard in the next week.

 

[Turbonium]

Just, please, get him a better nickname.

Well, I don't know if it's a nickname or just something they say when he shoots from the point, but Bouch bomb? Cmon. Sounds like a feminine hygiene product.

Bouchbag?