When will Bouchard be considered elite?

[Fourier]

Small sample size. I remember a thread just like this one two years ago. Let’s see how his defense holds up against Dallas first.

Would the regular season be a big enough sample size? Because while he has upped his game somewhat in the playoffs, if you throw away the first 12 games where the whole team was completely inept what you see here is pretty much how the whole year went.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

hope he gets 10 mil a year

 

[RickyLafleur]

Excellent offensive player but he only really started to take off with Ekholm as a partner. It will be interesting to see what kind of salary he gets, and how he performs when EKholm ages out since they have nobody else to replace him.

 

[BKarchitect]

Hard to argue with the results of the pairing…it’s been tops. The synergy between Bouchard and Ekholm just meshes well and in hindsight, it’s easy to see how their styles are so complimentary. As bad as the Nurse contract it, the Ekholm trade has been in the opposite direction really franchise altering for the Oilers.

Bouchard should get his flowers too. He’s always gonna be a guy who after certain games people are gonna crush (including Oilers fans on their own sub-forum)…but it’s harder and harder to ignore the overall results even with the bad decisions and games mixed in.

He’s quite clearly an All-Star level defenseman. He’s not anybody’s idea of a top two-way blueliner but if we are talking about pure “weaponized” offensive play and IQ from the blueline, he’s on a very short list.

He’s really become the maxed out version of what people saw in him as a prospect, which after all the ups and downs, is pretty cool to see.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Wayyy too soon. Oilers fans couldn't give Bouchard away for free earlier this season.

 

[HockeyVirus]

OIlers going to have Nurse and Bouchard making nearly 20 million and neither can actually defend

 

[NyQuil]

Would the regular season be a big enough sample size? Because while he has upped his game somewhat in the playoffs, if you throw away the first 12 games where the whole team was completely inept what you see here is pretty much how the whole year went.

That kind of sample size would mean he had an elite season.

Different people will have different margins for how many elite seasons = elite defenceman.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Hes a legit stud. Anyone who watched this past series and says otherwise is absolutely out to lunch.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

most of his most vocal critics have been bashing the guy since before he was even drafted, have made dozens if not hundreds of posts about it, and would sooner die than admit that he even belongs in the NHL at all let alone that he might actually be even slightly good

Agreed. They have to double down on that initial opinion or admit they were mistaken.
I wanted the Wings to draft him and by all accounts he was Ken Holland's guy - but that damn Zadina just had to drop in his lap!

 

[Despote]

The advanced statistics all showed that Bouchard is the best defenceman in the league and he's proving it in the big games. What a stud.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Dude, your team just made it to the conference final. Be happy with that. Not everyone needs to fawn over your players. Sorry we don’t agree.

Yeah Oiler fans just need to tune out the noise from biased fans.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Not the most deluded Oiler fan post I've seen but certainly a contender

What is deluded about Bouchard stomping the Canucks? Literally just happened.

 

[Buck Naked]

Excellent offensive player but he only really started to take off with Ekholm as a partner.

Yeah, it must be the first young Dman to ever improve when he gets a better partner. I mean, it's not like Makar looks better next to Toews or Quinn Hughes next to Tanev or Hronek.

 

[RickyLafleur]

Yeah, it must be the first young Dman to ever improve when he gets a better partner. I mean, it's not like Makar looks better next to Toews or Quinn Hughes next to Tanev or Hronek.

Yeah, that does tend to happen, except those guys that you mentioned were considered top defensemen before Toews or Hronek joined their respective teams.

 

[Fourier]

That kind of sample size would mean he had an elite season.

Different people will have different margins for how many elite seasons = elite defenceman.

Bouchard is 24. This is basically his third year in the NHL. He has 41 goals and 171 points in 265 games in the regular season. His playoff numbers are 12 goals and 46 points in 40 games. At least offensively he is definitely elite. Of that there is no question.

 

[Czechboy]

You point out his points - PP merchant
You point out his 5 on 5 - Product of Ek, McD and Drai
You point out his /- - product of McD
You point his minutes - he doesn't try hard and has lots of energy because he is being carried

You ask those people how many games they actually saw and the answer is 1 or 2 against their home team but they saw a tonne of clips on Twitter of him being exposed.lol

 

[Buck Naked]

Yeah, that does tend to happen, except those guys that you mentioned were considered top defensemen before Toews or Hronek joined their respective teams.

No, I totally agree. Makar with his one year in the league and Quinn Hughes who was laughed at after Tanev left him sure was not affected by their coming D partners. Not like Makar became the #1 Dman in the world after Toews showed up and Quinn Hughes dominating the league after he got Hronek as a partner. Then I've isolated it to that it must be the first time a Dman at the age of 23 is starting to find his game. Guys like Hedman and Lidstrom were superstars the second they set foot in the NHL and never played with any good Dmen, ever.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

He's pretty good but can he do it on a cold, rainy night in Stoke?

 

[Macheteops]

Very good player, I'll admit I was wrong about him.
Edmonton got themselves a player.

Very Interested to see how he plays against Dallas.

Don't feel bad a lot of us EDM fans are in the same boat. Didn't think he had the defensive awareness or drive to be anything more than a PP specialist

 

[Czechboy]

This is the playoff D race since 2021.. Bouch was a rookie and healthy scratch in his rookie year.

 

[Oak]

When people start looking at advanced stats. Best D in the league by them this season.

Post these advanced stats pls. I just dont see it and my eye test is usually spot on, although I like the above posters @Cloned comparison to a better John Carlson. Pretty good comparo.

 

[RickyLafleur]

No, I totally agree. Makar with his one year in the league and Quinn Hughes who was laughed at after Tanev left him sure was not affected by their coming D partners. Not like Makar became the #1 Dman in the world after Toews showed up and Quinn Hughes dominating the league after he got Hronek as a partner. Then I've isolated it to that it must be the first time a Dman at the age of 23 is starting to find his game. Guys like Hedman and Lidstrom were superstars the second they set foot in the NHL and never played with any good Dmen, ever.

No need to be disingenuous. Makar was PPG, won the Calder, and was 9th in Norris voting in his rookie season. Hughes was not far behind and came 2nd in Calder voting behind Makar and received some Norris votes as well. I am not sure why you're so defensive about this, they are all great defensemen but it's clear that Bouchard was and remains a tier or two below those guys before getting his babysitter. If you had to choose any single defenseman in the league to build around, Bouchard will likely be lower down this list than guys who are very strong on both sides of the puck like a Makar, Hedman, Fox, Heiskanen, Josi.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Bouch is a Sergei Zubov clone. Hope Dallas Stars fans watch and see for themselves.

Zubov was never really in contention for the Norris either.

 

[Buck Naked]

No need to be disingenuous. Makar was PPG, won the Calder, and was 9th in Norris voting in his rookie season. Hughes was not far behind and came 2nd in Calder voting behind Makar and received some Norris votes as well. I am not sure why you're so defensive about this, they are all great defensemen but it's clear that Bouchard was and remains a tier or two below those guys before getting his babysitter. If you had to choose any single defenseman in the league to build around, Bouchard will likely be lower down this list than guys who are very strong on both sides of the puck like a Makar, Hedman, Fox, Heiskanen, Josi.

Because you're attributing Bouchard's success to another player rather than admitting that several factors could be at play here, for him, and for the other Dmen in the conversation. It's perfectly clear to look up Makar's numbers without Toews next to him. Every single season since Toews showed up, Makar's numbers takes a hit when he's not playing with Toews. Especially the last two seasons where it's massive.

Makar with Towes: 58.33 GF%, 55.86xGF%
Makar without Toews: 47.54 GF%, 50.83xGF%
Toews without Makar: 57.69 GF%%, 55.03xGF%

This is over a two year sample size with them both facing about the same amount (Toews actually a tiny bit higher) of elite competition according to PuckIQ. Now tell me again about babysitters? Or, could it just be that great players get better when paired with other great players? Or as they age into their prime?

 

[ManByng]

Excellent offensive player but he only really started to take off with Ekholm as a partner. It will be interesting to see what kind of salary he gets, and how he performs when EKholm ages out since they have nobody else to replace him.

It’s more of he was young and needed a mentor to play with and found one and has some good chemistry with the guy! When Ekholm eventually “ages out” Bouchard will be a young veteran and should be fine!