When to extend Byfield?

[Herby]

It never really dawned on me until you and KP brought it up, but the position change to wing certainly makes a lot of sense relative to this thread.

He played C in the WJCs, AHL and NHL (early on) and outside of a few games with Vilardi and Iafallo at the start of last season, he was underwhelming much of the time. It was only when he was moved to Kopitar's wing that his effectivness started to improve.

At wing, especially this year, he's looked like a completely different player. Given how dramatic the turnaround has been, it certainly lends a lot of support to the issue sometimes associated with a position change (I don't even want to use the term anymore ). It's not even just about points. The guy has been a beast all over the ice.

Most talented kids play C for the vast majority of their youth careers because C is the most important position on the ice and you want your most talented players. But as they progress up, and when they reach the NHL, and there are less than 100 scoring line center spots and the game moves at turbo speed compared to lesser levels, many of those players end up transitioning to C. Now to be fair, this is not usually the case with players drafted that high, because you normally don’t want to be taking wingers that high unless they are truly elite, but it’s certainly not unheard of.

I get it, people want to get that ROI on a #2 pick and that isn’t going to come as a winger, but getting a 1st line winger is probably a better ROI on that pick than getting a lesser center. I’ve been pretty critical on some development choices but I give props to the Kings for putting him in a position to succeed.

nothing this franchise does is 'normal' behavior

to hold that against Byfield is a little wild

and at 21, on the wing, this is a guy who is 75% xgf%, near the team lead in scoring, and at the team lead in +/- while playing 1st line minutes and matchups and being the driver on the most dominant line on one of the most dominant teams in the league.

You think he'll be unable to process a position change back in two more years at age 23, and it's due to hockey IQ?

Yes, I think his career will end up being much better as a winger and I applaud the move to put him there. This is not the first guy that just plays better on the wing than at C and he won’t be the last. This is a common occurrence in the NHL and has been for as long as I’ve followed the league.

You and I have been critical of some choices, and those are valid criticisms but getting Vilardi to the wing saved his career, and while it’s not quite as drastic with Byfield, would you rather have a top 40 winger or a top 60 center?

I guess I am in the minority, but it’s a night and day difference for me watching him play the wing.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

They moved a #2 overall pick to winger and gave out 15 years and over $100m in center contracts after he was drafted. But yeah, seems totally normal behavior for a team that thinks said #2 overall pick can still play C.

So he's going to play wing for 3+ seasons and then suddenly be able to switch to C, a position he had already struggled at? How many players in NHL history played wing for 3+ seasons and then successfully switched to playing center?

It's extremely unusual, but hey maybe you are right. This is the same team that sent Bjornfot back to the minors after 2 seasons in the NHL and pulled a kid from college at 19 after he finished the year with 1 goal in his final 18 NCAA games. Maybe it is just the Kings way.

I guess I am in the minority, but it’s a night and day difference for me watching him play the wing.

Dude.... I feel like you're just hell bent on the idea that Byfield isn't a center and will never be a center and the Kings are doomed because of it.

He 'struggled' at center as a 19 year old and 20 year old dealing with multiple injuries and development setbacks. Just because he's having success as a winger doesn't mean he can't play center (now or a year or two from now). Like I said, it could just be that he needed time in general and would've broken out this year regardless of what position he's playing.

Yes, he looks a lot better this year. He's taking that next step and this seems to be a breakout year for him. But that's not necessarily because he's playing wing. That's the crazy part I'm struggling with here.. You legitimately think he's having a breakout year because he's playing on the wing??????

To me, he's just having a breakout year because he's an uber talented young player who has finally had an offseason / start to the season without any injuries/setbacks - Allowing him to settle in and start to build confidence.

Like your whole assumption that he's not a center is based on what you saw from him in the first 10-20 games of his D+3 season as a 20 year old????? That's mad weird to me.

 

[King'sPawn]

nothing this franchise does is 'normal' behavior

to hold that against Byfield is a little wild

and at 21, on the wing, this is a guy who is 75% xgf%, near the team lead in scoring, and at the team lead in +/- while playing 1st line minutes and matchups and being the driver on the most dominant line on one of the most dominant teams in the league.

You think he'll be unable to process a position change back in two more years at age 23, and it's due to hockey IQ?

I just figure his skillset and tools make him a generally better winger than center. He's big and fast north-south, making him a menace in forechecking and along the boards. Not that he lacks agility, but he doesn't benefit from the same open ice that other centers do.

I don't think that's an indictment to his hockey IQ. I think it just plays to his strengths better.

For the same reason, I also think he's better as a net-front presence on the powerplay than on the point or half-wall.

I still don't think the acquisition of PLD is anything against Byfield.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yes, I think his career will end up being much better as a winger and I applaud the move to put him there. This is not the first guy that just plays better on the wing than at C and he won’t be the last. This is a common occurrence in the NHL and has been for as long as I’ve followed the league.

You and I have been critical of some choices, and those are valid criticisms but getting Vilardi to the wing saved his career, and while it’s not quite as drastic with Byfield, would you rather have a top 40 winger or a top 60 center?

I guess I am in the minority, but it’s a night and day difference for me watching him play the wing.

I just think we're leaning a little heavy into the correlation = causation is all when there are a lot of other factors, including age, experience, health, familiarity, playing up the lineup with great linemates instead of down the lineup with whatever's around and won't be here next year, and so on.

 

[Herby]

Dude.... I feel like you're just hell bent on the idea that Byfield isn't a center and will never be a center and the Kings are doomed because of it.

He 'struggled' at center as a 19 year old and 20 year old dealing with multiple injuries and development setbacks. Just because he's having success as a winger doesn't mean he can't play center (now or a year or two from now). Like I said, it could just be that he needed time in general and would've broken out this year regardless of what position he's playing.

Yes, he looks a lot better this year. He's taking that next step and this seems to be a breakout year for him. But that's not necessarily because he's playing wing. That's the crazy part I'm struggling with here.. You legitimately think he's having a breakout year because he's playing on the wing??????

To me, he's just having a breakout year because he's an uber talented young player who has finally had an offseason / start to the season without any injuries/setbacks - Allowing him to settle in and start to build confidence.

Like your whole assumption that he's not a center is based on what you saw from him in the first 10-20 games of his D+3 season as a 20 year old????? That's mad weird to me.

When did I ever say they are doomed? Please don’t go Axl and put words in my mouth. You are better than that.

KP said above me the reasons why himself, me and likely the Kings organization feels the same way. The Kings saw this guy play a ton of C and went out and acquired two C’s and re-signed another one, why would they do that if they believed in him as a C? When has another team ever done such a thing? Nobody is actively blocking a C they used a #2 pick on to bring in high priced veterans from other teams (and giving up assets in one of the deals) I don’t care how much they “loved” PLD like you claim, nobody is doing that if they have faith in the player to play C. The PLD trade was the result of the Kings failing to find a scoring line C out of any of their picks in 2017-2020. Not just Byfield but all of them.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I just figure his skillset and tools make him a generally better winger than center. He's big and fast north-south, making him a menace in forechecking and along the boards. Not that he lacks agility, but he doesn't benefit from the same open ice that other centers do.

I don't think that's an indictment to his hockey IQ. I think it just plays to his strengths better.

For the same reason, I also think he's better as a net-front presence on the powerplay than on the point or half-wall.

I still don't think the acquisition of PLD is anything against Byfield.

I think it's simplified the game for him and that's allowed him to focus on his strengths

i dont' even necessarily disagree about what his long term position MAY be

I'm just arguing against the idea that he wouldn't be able to handle C in another two years.

 

[johnjm22]

Normally teams who've picked 2nd overall recently aren't in win now mode.

As of last year QB wasn't ready to hold down a center spot in the NHL on a contending team.

Moving him to wing and acquiring PLD was a compromise. QB gets prime TOI playing with Kopitar/Kempe, while you simultaneously get the "sure thing" center in PLD that you need.

I don't think it means they believe he's not a center. It's more about doing what's best to win RIGHT NOW.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

When did I ever say they are doomed? Please don’t go Axl and put words in my mouth. You are better than that.

KP said above me the reasons why himself, me and likely the Kings organization feels the same way. The Kings saw this guy play a ton of C and went out and acquired two C’s and re-signed another one, why would they do that if they believed in him as a C? When has another team ever done such a thing? Nobody is actively blocking a C they used a #2 pick on to bring in high priced veterans from other teams (and giving up assets in one of the deals) I don’t care how much they “loved” PLD like you claim, nobody is doing that if they have faith in the player to play C. The PLD trade was the result of the Kings failing to find a scoring line C out of any of their picks in 2017-2020. Not just Byfield but all of them.

Yeah it was more hyperbole than trying to put words in your mouth but my bad.

I think it's one thing to say (as KP said) that you think he's better suited for wing / that wing seems to play to his strengths more.. And another thing to say he can't play center, will never play center, the Kings clearly don't believe he can play center, etc etc.

But ultimately that may just be your opinion and we may just disagree on this one. I honestly think he could play center this season if he really needed to - And also think the potential for him to shift back to center in the future still exists. For me, his play this year is less related to his position and more just a matter of him taking that next step as a player in general.

And I don't really see the Kings moves related to the center position as an indication that they don't believe Byfield can play the position. Like some others have pointed out, I think it mostly comes down to being in 'win now' mode and having an opportunity to guarantee center depth with those acquisitions / re-signings as opposed to leaving a big whole in the lineup that Byfield may/may not have been able to fill.

At the end of the day, I'm just happy to see Byfield having success and playing like he is. I think we're really just seeing the tip of the iceberg here and believe he can be a huge part of this franchise's future.

 

[Statto]

If they decide QB is ready for C they can move Danault. He’s worth his contract currently so moving him won’t be that hard with the expected Cap increase. There will be teams out east trying to contend that could use him. I’m not saying that I want him gone but an aging Kopitar can be the 3C if they think QB is ready. All I’m saying is that QB at LW is no necessarily an absolute, nor is the current lineup at C.

 

[johnjm22]

I'd like to see TMac give him some occasional PK time on the second unit.

Fast players put pressure on the opposition's PP pointmen. QB's long reach gives him an advantage when trying to disrupt passes as well.

Kings have to think about the long term. Grooming another option on the PK helps lighten the load on Kopitar/Danault/Liz, and gives you some insurance incase one of them gets injured. Also gives QB more opportunity to work on his draws.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

When did I ever say they are doomed? Please don’t go Axl and put words in my mouth. You are better than that.

<eye roll> total DQ

 

[Random Comment]

QB is clearly going to be a C. Anybody who thinks he’s better suited at wing are just selling him short.

 

[Lt Dan]

QB is clearly going to be a C. Anybody who thinks he’s better suited at wing are just selling him short.

While I agree with you, our coach is a koala and we cannot understand his strange behavior either

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

While I agree with you, our coach is a koala and we cannot understand his strange behavior either

Koala....gets funnier every time you guys say it.

 

[johnjm22]

He has one non-empty net point so far this season playing on the top line.

His value has never been lower, but there's a good chance it'll be lower after the next game. Then lower after the game after that, and so on.

Given that, he's probably still best advised to wait until the season's over, ask for a contract comparable to Stutzle, then after everyone stops laughing, sign a one-year prove-it deal and pray he finally turns things around next season.

I don't want to say "bust", yet, but he's actually worse than I thought he'd be when the Kings originally drafted him over Tim. What a disastrous pick for this team.

Can you imagine going to another teams' board to crap on their top young player / prospect like this? Then ending up being completely wrong and looking like a total clown like this guy?

That would be really embarrassing.

Since this post: 17GP, 7G, 12A, 19PTS

 

[King'sPawn]

This thread is interesting to read over.

 

[BringTheReign]

Can you imagine going to another teams' board to crap on their top young player / prospect like this? Then ending up being completely wrong and looking like a total clown like this guy?

That would be really embarrassing.

Since this post: 17GP, 7G, 12A, 19PTS

It’s even funnier with how badly their team (the Leafs) could use Byfield, Spence, Laferriere, or any legitimate top 9F and top 4D talent playing on ELCs right now. If I had a nickel for every time I’d heard how Robertson or the next Leafs prospect was going to be a difference maker…

 

[Eagle Fang]

Got a chuckle from a post on the Canucks board.

"Byfield is becoming a problem"

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Looking back, I don’t think the move to wing saved QB. I think the move to a top line and PP unit saved QB.

Vilardi was a different story. He never had the skating ability to be an effective NHL center. He was just too slow to cover the amount of ice NHL centers need to cover. That’s not the case with QB.

No hockey IQ to me has always been a bogus criticism of QB. His playmaking vision and foresight is just too elite.

QB’s problems were always confidence and opportunity, IMO.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Looking back, I don’t think the move to wing saved QB. I think the move to a top line and PP unit saved QB.

Vilardi was a different story. He never had the skating ability to be an effective NHL center. He was just too slow to cover the amount of ice NHL centers need to cover. That’s not the case with QB.

No hockey IQ to me has always been a bogus criticism of QB. His playmaking vision and foresight is just too elite.

QB’s problems were always confidence and opportunity, IMO.

Pretty much this, I can foresee a future where QB stays on Kopitar/Kempe to form the top line, then when Kopitar decides to hang it up at the ripe old age of 65, Byfleid slots over

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

 

[Telos]

Kopitar really is the gift that keeps on giving and pretty much the best thing to ever happen to the Kings outside of obviously winning the cups which he had a heavy hand in. Having him continue to be a GigaChad gives Byfield the perfect ramp to develop into an elite player and still gives him his inevitable shot to try to take the reigns after him. It is inevitable that Byfield gets tried at center again sooner or later in the future. He is the only one on the roster that possibly can, but at least the net is there that he can be an elite top line player whether he can make that jump or not.

His next deal is definitely going to be much more lucrative now, and neither side is going to get anything done until the offseason likely, but you really only have two choices. Either you get him in a bridge deal for ~$5M/year for 3-4 years or so, or you go all in and roll the dice on the ~$7-8M/year long-term and try to get a discount on those prime years if you are confident he reaches his ceiling.

 

[kevsh]

Can you imagine going to another teams' board to crap on their top young player / prospect like this? Then ending up being completely wrong and looking like a total clown like this guy?

First, I'm not on "another team's board", I'm a Kings fan first even though I post, by far, more on the Leafs forum as it's my hometown team.

Second, I wasn't "crapping" on Byfield. It wasn't personal. I didn't like the pick when they made it (over Stutzle) and up until a couple of days ago not a single person could argue I was wrong. And even then:

Stutzle: 202 pts in 231 games, incl. 90 pts last year
Byfield: 52 pts in 122 games.

So not, the argument over who was the better pick is a long way from being settled but it's still heavily titled towards Ottawa.

Lastly, you ask if someone can imagine being a clown like me? Sitting on my post for years just so you could post this childish response is pretty f**king clownish itself.

Btw, as a Kings fan I'll be ecstatic if/when I'm proven wrong and Byfield truly hits the potential Blake saw in him (that I clearly didn't) on draft day. In the end, I can take the hit and cheap shots by clowns like you if it means another Cup banner hangs in the Staples Center rafters.

Have a nice day!

 

[kevsh]

It’s even funnier with how badly their team (the Leafs) could use Byfield, Spence, Laferriere, or any legitimate top 9F and top 4D talent playing on ELCs right now. If I had a nickel for every time I’d heard how Robertson or the next Leafs prospect was going to be a difference maker…

What?
The Leafs didn't have a shot at top 3 pick because unlike the Kings they've been a playoff team for 7 years straight. Of course they could use a top forward on an ELC, so could every team. Not sure what point you're even trying to make here.

As for Robertson, for every prospect on every team there are those that overvalue him and those that don't. If you followed the Leafs board, or any other, you'd see the distinction. But he's actually playing pretty well since his last call-up and he may be turn out to be another prospect I was wrong about.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

What?
The Leafs didn't have a shot at top 3 pick because unlike the Kings they've been a playoff team for 7 years straight. Of course they could use a top forward on an ELC, so could every team. Not sure what point you're even trying to make here.

As for Robertson, for every prospect on every team there are those that overvalue him and those that don't. If you followed the Leafs board, or any other, you'd see the distinction. But he's actually playing pretty well since his last call-up and he may be turn out to be another prospect I was wrong about.

Lmao well yea if you ignore Mathews, Marner, Reilly