When should the Undertaker have retired? (read OP)

[JackSlater]

This is just not true go watch his matches with Batista

Carrying Batista is probably the most impressive thing Undertaker ever did in ring. Other than Batista though, basically any time Undertaker had a great match it was with an even better wrestler who did most of the heavy lifting. It's true of most wrestlers whoa ren't in the top tier in terms of in ring ability. His reputation after the Michaels Wrestlemania matches was way higher than his actual ability or what history would indicate, though that seems to have been corrected (even if not for the right reasons) in the last few years.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Carrying Batista is probably the most impressive thing Undertaker ever did in ring. Other than Batista though, basically any time Undertaker had a great match it was with an even better wrestler who did most of the heavy lifting. It's true of most wrestlers whoa ren't in the top tier in terms of in ring ability. His reputation after the Michaels Wrestlemania matches was way higher than his actual ability or what history would indicate, though that seems to have been corrected (even if not for the right reasons) in the last few years.

I think most talents in the business would disagree. First as a big man you aren't supposed to be the "worker" you need to perform as a big man

Next he's had alot of great matches and as a talent you have to pull your weight. Bret, HBK, Foley, Rey, HHH, Batista, Orton, Angle, Punk, Edge..there's too many great matches to say he didn't do his part and his peers all speak highly. Yes he is presently a shell of himself but that doesn't take away from the totality of his career

 

[HandsomeHollywood]

This is just not true go watch his matches with Batista

The Batista match at Mania? Yea, that one is good. I didn't say all his 'Mania matches were duds. I did say most.
Though I don't think I'd be in the minority if I said I was pleasantly surprised that the Batista match was good.
Perhaps I have much less love for him as I was never a huge fan.
My favorite match of his is probably one of the Michaels matches. After that I like his match with Angle at No Way Out. Then probably his Mania 18 match with Flair.

 

[JackSlater]

I think most talents in the business would disagree. First as a big man you aren't supposed to be the "worker" you need to perform as a big man

I am amused that you immediately went to an appeal to authority. I don't need to know the opinions of various wrestlers (whose opinions tend to be very suspect anyway) when I have seen most big Undertaker matches over the course of his career. You wrongly assume that I don't know how big wrestlers are supposed to perform. I'm not talking about flipping around, I am talking about elevating someone in a match. Vader, another big man, did this at his best for instance. Undertaker pretty much stayed at the level of his opponent.

Next he's had alot of great matches and as a talent you have to pull your weight. Bret, HBK, Foley, Rey, HHH, Batista, Orton, Angle, Punk, Edge..there's too many great matches to say he didn't do his part and his peers all speak highly. Yes he is presently a shell of himself but that doesn't take away from the totality of his career

Undertaker didn't have great matches with most of those wrestlers. Typically he had good to great matches with great wrestlers, mediocre to good matches with good wrestlers, bad matches with bad wrestlers. What he did against Batista, elevating a bad wrestler to good matches, is a rare instance of him doing what Michaels/Hart and some others did regularly. This obviously doesn't mean that Undertaker was bad, because he wasn't. Only the top tier of in ring performers can frequently elevate their opponents.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

The Batista match at Mania? Yea, that one is good. I didn't say all his 'Mania matches were duds. I did say most.
Though I don't think I'd be in the minority if I said I was pleasantly surprised that the Batista match was good.
Perhaps I have much less love for him as I was never a huge fan.
My favorite match of his is probably one of the Michaels matches. After that I like his match with Angle at No Way Out. Then probably his Mania 18 match with Flair.

most of his WM matches are duds because he was saddled with duds.

Giant Gonzalez
King Kong Bundy
Diesel
Sid
Bossman
Prince Albert and Big Show
Mark Henry
Batista

Basically no one is having a good WM match with them.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

most of his WM matches are duds because he was saddled with duds.

Giant Gonzalez
King Kong Bundy
Diesel
Sid
Bossman
Prince Albert and Big Show
Mark Henry
Batista

Basically no one is having a good WM match with them.

Undertaker literally had the MOTN if not for HBK/Cena on that show. Their 16-minute sprint and “f*** you” to management for putting them on fourth was awesome.

And it wasn’t just a one man effort. I recall Batista pulling his weight. They had great chemistry together.

 

[HandsomeHollywood]

Undertaker didn't have great matches with most of those wrestlers. Typically he had good to great matches with great wrestlers, mediocre to good matches with good wrestlers, bad matches with bad wrestlers. What he did against Batista, elevating a bad wrestler to good matches, is a rare instance of him doing what Michaels/Hart and some others did regularly. This obviously doesn't mean that Undertaker was bad, because he wasn't. Only the top tier of in ring performers can frequently elevate their opponents.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

***Any wrestler can wrestle and get money for as long as they want. This discussion is for protecting the character and putting a bow on the amazing career of The Undertaker***

Taker once said he doesn't want to be that guy who dad's take their kid to the show and say "Man.. if you could only have seen him back then." Well we are waaaaaaaaaaaay past that. So when do you think would have been the perfect time for Taker to retire?


- "The end of the era" match against HHH? To me... I think this is a good answer. That spot where HHH/Taker/HBK walked up the ramp together was priceless. Really hit home and I wish we would have moved on from there. It's definitely my choice. However we wouldn't have got the Taker/Punk match.

- Losing the streak to Lesnar? We would have got the Punk match and then ended on a loss.

- When he put his gear in the ring for Roman? We had a match against Bray AND Shane McMahon before this Roman match. To me... this was a sad match to watch. Taker couldn't go for ****.

- Any other moments?

He should have lost to CM Punk and retired since Punk was definitively the best in the world.