When, if, will any country’s roster be generally considered above Canada’s?

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Gotta disagree here. Assuming the five you are talking about are Canada, the US, Russia, Sweden, Finland. The Czech's should still be included. Going through a bit of a downtime - yes, however still have good young players in the show (Pasta, Zadina, Necas, Zacha). Not to mention teams on the upswing talent-wise, like Germany (Draitsaitl, Stutzle, Reichel, Seider, Peterka + Silver in 2018) and Switzerland (Hischier, Kurashev, Meier). Hockey is still growing. Also have to consider the improvement we've seen out of top 5 counties like Finland who went from a quasi-contender, to an out right Gold/Silver favorite in many tournaments.
Well I gotta disagree too.lol
Respecrtfully of course.

Czechs are in a weird spot but most our results at U18, U20, WC and best on best around out in the quarters. We definitely have some nice pieces and if everything falls right we can bring a team that can be a dark horse. I keep saying I feel our best on best team woudl be good enough to win a World Championship (Skoda). However, things aren't currently bouncing right for us in a best on best year:

Mrazek out, Francouz out, Vrana out, Krejci in the wrong league, Hronek back to back healthy scratches, Hajek has yet to suit up, Zboril has played 1 game - that is our best on best D. We are in trouble. Necas is off to a slow start as well. WE needed everything to go right and it hasn't. When you don't have Canada type depth, an injury or 2 can derail you real fast and that's us.

Swiss have been declining for awhile if you look at U18 and U20 results and the drafts... they also dont' have an NHL goalie. I agree their best on best team will be beautiful but their program is in a lull.. I say this as a fan of their program.

Germans had an exceptional bumper crop.. Drai, Seider and Grubauer are amazing building blocks. However, they've not been doing well in Jr events either and the draft has not been very good and next one doesn't look to have much either. It's ironic because the Czechs would be a big 6 nation if we could take a few Germans... Drai, Seider and Stutzl would push us into contention.

To my eye... Canada keeps getting stronger. It's uncanny. Next 2 drafts they most likely have the 1OV. Makar is coming on like gangbusters. Sweden, Russian, Finland and Sweden are pulling away. What the finns did in a decade is amazing. Their best on best team will be unreal.
 
Well I gotta disagree too.lol
Respecrtfully of course.

Czechs are in a weird spot but most our results at U18, U20, WC and best on best around out in the quarters. We definitely have some nice pieces and if everything falls right we can bring a team that can be a dark horse. I keep saying I feel our best on best team woudl be good enough to win a World Championship (Skoda). However, things aren't currently bouncing right for us in a best on best year:

Mrazek out, Francouz out, Vrana out, Krejci in the wrong league, Hronek back to back healthy scratches, Hajek has yet to suit up, Zboril has played 1 game - that is our best on best D. We are in trouble. Necas is off to a slow start as well. WE needed everything to go right and it hasn't. When you don't have Canada type depth, an injury or 2 can derail you real fast and that's us.

Swiss have been declining for awhile if you look at U18 and U20 results and the drafts... they also dont' have an NHL goalie. I agree their best on best team will be beautiful but their program is in a lull.. I say this as a fan of their program.

Germans had an exceptional bumper crop.. Drai, Seider and Grubauer are amazing building blocks. However, they've not been doing well in Jr events either and the draft has not been very good and next one doesn't look to have much either. It's ironic because the Czechs would be a big 6 nation if we could take a few Germans... Drai, Seider and Stutzl would push us into contention.

To my eye... Canada keeps getting stronger. It's uncanny. Next 2 drafts they most likely have the 1OV. Makar is coming on like gangbusters. Sweden, Russian, Finland and Sweden are pulling away. What the finns did in a decade is amazing. Their best on best team will be unreal.

The 2026 Olympic Team Canada is looking great. '22 is 50/50, however. Could win it all, but could very easily bounce out in a 1/4 or 1/2 final.
 
The 2026 Olympic Team Canada is looking great. '22 is 50/50, however. Could win it all, but could very easily bounce out in a 1/4 or 1/2 final.
I don't think I will live long enough to not see a team Canada gold medal contender at a best on best. Only worry 'might' be goaltending but I don't think it will be a problem. All the goalies are good and Canada has a dozen of them.
 
Gotta disagree here. Assuming the five you are talking about are Canada, the US, Russia, Sweden, Finland. The Czech's should still be included. Going through a bit of a downtime - yes, however still have good young players in the show (Pasta, Zadina, Necas, Zacha). Not to mention teams on the upswing talent-wise, like Germany (Draitsaitl, Stutzle, Reichel, Seider, Peterka + Silver in 2018) and Switzerland (Hischier, Kurashev, Meier). Hockey is still growing. Also have to consider the improvement we've seen out of top 5 counties like Finland who went from a quasi-contender, to an out right Gold/Silver favorite in many tournaments.
Out of those players Zacha is just ok and Zadina is bad. Necas is dissapointing this year. We need to produce more talent to have 40 players at minimum and at least few top4 Ds in nhl to be somewhat comp again.
 
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The US has been slowly catching up but Canada will always have the cold weather advantage even with a much smaller population. I do think Canada will eventually be overtaken as new technology allows more rinks in warmer climates and hockey gains more popularity in those places.
 
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I can remember an article after the 1996 World Cup written by Earl McRae, who was a writer in the Ottawa Sun if I recall. He claimed that the US was going to overtake hockey soon. I remember his taglines in the article saying something along the lines of "Get used to it, because it ain't going to change!" He noted that the Commissioner is American, two Canadian teams just left the country, the USA has a younger and faster core and that similar to how Pac Man gobbles up the pellets is how the Americans are going to gobble up our game.

McRae died in 2011, so he never saw it. But this was an example of the alarmist reactions in the hockey world in Canada. The Canadians lost a game where they were 3 minutes away from winning it despite having significant talent not playing and a team that had a pair of Canadians they were playing against. There were just 3 Americans in the top 20 in scoring in 1996. There would be just 4 in 1997. 2 in 1998. 2 in 2004, the 19th and 20th top scorers. 2 in 2011, the year McRae died. And as much as you want to include the abbreviated 2021 season............4 players who were American.

It just never happened. Now, when McRae wrote the article in 1996 Americans made up just 16% of the NHL, as opposed to 25% right now, but what he said was the same sort of stuff that was said in 1960 with the American win in the Olympics, and especially 1980 with the Miracle on Ice. Well over 100 years of NHL hockey and is Kane still the only American to ever win the scoring title? What I mean is, despite the nice strides the Americans have made to add to their presence in the NHL there has always been an alarmist mindset in Canada. I am not sure why he was panicking, as poor as the 1996 draft was, there were still only 3 Americans chosen in the 1st round. 3 in the first round in 1997. 2020 had 2. 2021, had 8. Much better, but Canada still had half of the 32 first rounders in 2021. All I am saying is that this panic is nothing new. For a while it was Europeans supposedly going to overtake things, now if there is any team who is probably the clear cut #2 in the world, it is the U.S. But they are still quite a ways away. The top 3 American forwards on the U.S. Olympic team are Kane, Matthews and Eichel, if I were to pick. Matthews couldn't score to save his life in an important game, Eichel has never played a playoff game, and Kane is no spring chicken. I just don't see the core of the team to be better than the 1996-'02 Americans, who very much frightened me.
 
I can remember an article after the 1996 World Cup written by Earl McRae, who was a writer in the Ottawa Sun if I recall. He claimed that the US was going to overtake hockey soon. I remember his taglines in the article saying something along the lines of "Get used to it, because it ain't going to change!" He noted that the Commissioner is American, two Canadian teams just left the country, the USA has a younger and faster core and that similar to how Pac Man gobbles up the pellets is how the Americans are going to gobble up our game.

McRae died in 2011, so he never saw it. But this was an example of the alarmist reactions in the hockey world in Canada. The Canadians lost a game where they were 3 minutes away from winning it despite having significant talent not playing and a team that had a pair of Canadians they were playing against. There were just 3 Americans in the top 20 in scoring in 1996. There would be just 4 in 1997. 2 in 1998. 2 in 2004, the 19th and 20th top scorers. 2 in 2011, the year McRae died. And as much as you want to include the abbreviated 2021 season............4 players who were American.

It just never happened. Now, when McRae wrote the article in 1996 Americans made up just 16% of the NHL, as opposed to 25% right now, but what he said was the same sort of stuff that was said in 1960 with the American win in the Olympics, and especially 1980 with the Miracle on Ice. Well over 100 years of NHL hockey and is Kane still the only American to ever win the scoring title? What I mean is, despite the nice strides the Americans have made to add to their presence in the NHL there has always been an alarmist mindset in Canada. I am not sure why he was panicking, as poor as the 1996 draft was, there were still only 3 Americans chosen in the 1st round. 3 in the first round in 1997. 2020 had 2. 2021, had 8. Much better, but Canada still had half of the 32 first rounders in 2021. All I am saying is that this panic is nothing new. For a while it was Europeans supposedly going to overtake things, now if there is any team who is probably the clear cut #2 in the world, it is the U.S. But they are still quite a ways away. The top 3 American forwards on the U.S. Olympic team are Kane, Matthews and Eichel, if I were to pick. Matthews couldn't score to save his life in an important game, Eichel has never played a playoff game, and Kane is no spring chicken. I just don't see the core of the team to be better than the 1996-'02 Americans, who very much frightened me.
Canada will never face a threat equivalent to that of that of the late 1900s Soviet Union, as long as the CHL remains the best development league in the world and mostly populated with Canadians I maintain that won’t change
 
Canada will never face a threat equivalent to that of that of the late 1900s Soviet Union, as long as the CHL remains the best development league in the world and mostly populated with Canadians I maintain that won’t change

Right. As disappointing as the Americans beating us in 1996 was, and then the 1998 Olympics at the hands of the Czechs, there wasn't a perennial enemy that we constantly were fighting for our lives against. In fact, since 1996, the U.S. has only beaten Canada once, and that was a round robin game in the 2010 Olympics. Since 1996 we beat them in the 1998 Olympics, 2002 Olympics, 2004 World Cup, 2010 Olympics gold medal, 2014 Olympics semis and 2016 World Cup.

With the Soviets, they were nipping at our heels, and surpassing us, in tournaments in between 1972 and 1987. They were slim margins of victory. A lot can be said that perhaps Canada performs even better if they played together all year as well but either way our best vs. their best was a battle. Yeah, we haven't had that in a long time with another country.
 
Canada has the unfair advantage of being alomst 4 times as populous as Sweden and 7 times as populous as Finland. With 367 vs 79 vs 46 players in NHL this season (according to Eliteprospects) it is a pretty even representation per capita, considering their domestic leagues (and Jokerit / KHL) might be more attractive for some NHL bottom halfers that could have increased the numbers. So by the numbers, if Finland and Sweden can produce 4 - 7 times as many top players per capita as Canada their rosters should be comparable? A tall order, but with only around 400 rinks in Sweden compared to almost 8 000 rinks (outdoor and indoor) in Canada (IIHF) this is quite a production per rink. One rink per 5 000 people in Canda is quite a number. (5000 of the Canadian rinks are outdoors, so maybe climate change will have the equalizing effect in the end. Hopefully not.)
 
Is it true or just sore losers' complaints that the refereeing at the Canada-cups in the 1980s was so biased that it was little wonder that Canada won except in 1981?
 
I fully expect the U.S. to ice a better team within 15-20 years. The relative importance of hockey in Canada appears to be dropping as the population changes, and in the U.S. it's gaining traction as a sport for the prosperous middle classes.

I thought the same thing in the 90s with Leetch, Modano, Lafontaine ect after Greztky turned 30 that it would happen quickly and well we are still waiting.
 
I thought the same thing in the 90s with Leetch, Modano, Lafontaine ect after Greztky turned 30 that it would happen quickly and well we are still waiting.

Yeah, but it's different now. The frickin star forward of the Toronto Maple Leafs is a kid who was born in California and raised in Arizona. If you had told me in 1993 that would be the case at some point I would have called you crazy.
 
Now lets look to this from another point. Isnt it boring for Canada fans? Always on top, always only gold count. Silver? bleh. Bronze? Oh god, what a disappointment.
McDavid, Crosby... Wtf, who cares about Kyle Capobianco, Clark Bishop ...? 75 % dont know, who they are, where they play.

Now look to us, Slovak fans. We are happy, if our team make it to quarterfinals. Semis? Orgasm. Medal? Next 6 month main topic in every group, no only hard hockey fans.
Every player in NHL counts. Not only stars, Every one, every shift. I can say, its better to be a Slovak fan that a Canada fan.
 
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Now lets look to this from another point. Isnt it boring for Canada fans? Always on top, always only gold count. Silver? bleh. Bronze? Oh god, what a disappointment.
McDavid, Crosby... Wtf, who cares about Kyle Capobianco, Clark Bishop ...? 75 % dont know, who they are, where they play.

Now look to us, Slovak fans. We are happy, if our team make it to quarterfinals. Semis? Orgasm. Medal? Next 6 month main topic in every group, no only hard hockey fans.
Every player in NHL counts. Not only stars, Every one, every shift. I can say, its better to be a Slovak fan that a Canada fan.

Seeing a good portion of the sport’s top talent playing together as part of an individual team is never boring.
 
Is it true or just sore losers' complaints that the refereeing at the Canada-cups in the 1980s was so biased that it was little wonder that Canada won except in 1981?

It’s just a reflection of the reality that was the World Championships from the opposite perspective.
 
Yeah, but it's different now. The frickin star forward of the Toronto Maple Leafs is a kid who was born in California and raised in Arizona. If you had told me in 1993 that would be the case at some point I would have called you crazy.

Fair enough but at the same time we had thought about the best player in the world coming out of Nova Scotia in the early 2000's and then a similar type of prospect coming out of West Vancouver around 20 years later that would have been crazy too.

Mind you not as crazy with guys like Sakic and Kariya around back then.
 
Fair enough but at the same time we had thought about the best player in the world coming out of Nova Scotia in the early 2000's and then a similar type of prospect coming out of West Vancouver around 20 years later that would have been crazy too.

Mind you not as crazy with guys like Sakic and Kariya around back then.

Well if you'd told me in 1993 that there'd be two generational players in the next 20 years from wherever in Canada I would have shrugged and said "yeah makes sense". It's not like that in itself is surprising. Other than Matthews the craziest thing is that the best European player in hockey isn't Swedish, Russian, Czech or Finnish but German.
 
Canada has the unfair advantage of being alomst 4 times as populous as Sweden and 7 times as populous as Finland. With 367 vs 79 vs 46 players in NHL this season (according to Eliteprospects) it is a pretty even representation per capita, considering their domestic leagues (and Jokerit / KHL) might be more attractive for some NHL bottom halfers that could have increased the numbers. So by the numbers, if Finland and Sweden can produce 4 - 7 times as many top players per capita as Canada their rosters should be comparable? A tall order, but with only around 400 rinks in Sweden compared to almost 8 000 rinks (outdoor and indoor) in Canada (IIHF) this is quite a production per rink. One rink per 5 000 people in Canda is quite a number. (5000 of the Canadian rinks are outdoors, so maybe climate change will have the equalizing effect in the end. Hopefully not.)
I wouldn't call it an unfair advantage personally.

Canadian parents will spend a small fortune to have their kids play hockey. It's part of the culture and everyone plays hockey. I play hockey, my son plays hockey. Totally normal. When I go back home and visit with family in the Czech republic... I have a family of about 40 people there. No one has ever played hockey and they are not poor.

I'd say Canada has been pulling away a bit lately. Haven't lost a best on best in awhile. Next 2 1OV are both going to be from Canada. Despite a lot of fans saying Skoda Cup is meaningless... Canada has been in 5 of the last 6 finals in that one too. Imagine a pipeline with Crosby near the end, Connor in the middle and Wright at the begining. That is just beautiful.

On a funny note (to me). London, Ontario has more hockey rinks than the Czech Republic. Just London, Ontario which is a population of 500,000.
 
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Now lets look to this from another point. Isnt it boring for Canada fans? Always on top, always only gold count. Silver? bleh. Bronze? Oh god, what a disappointment.
McDavid, Crosby... Wtf, who cares about Kyle Capobianco, Clark Bishop ...? 75 % dont know, who they are, where they play.

Now look to us, Slovak fans. We are happy, if our team make it to quarterfinals. Semis? Orgasm. Medal? Next 6 month main topic in every group, no only hard hockey fans.
Every player in NHL counts. Not only stars, Every one, every shift. I can say, its better to be a Slovak fan that a Canada fan.
It's kind of true. As a Czech fan.. when we win our 1 upset round robin at the Juniors against a Top 5 - I celebrate it like an Olympic Gold.lol I full well know we'll still finish 3rd or 4th in that pool and will lose in the quarters but I cheer to the end like a mad man.

If Czechs beat Swiss or Danes at this Olympics the Becherovka will be overflowing in my basement!
 
Right. As disappointing as the Americans beating us in 1996 was, and then the 1998 Olympics at the hands of the Czechs, there wasn't a perennial enemy that we constantly were fighting for our lives against. In fact, since 1996, the U.S. has only beaten Canada once, and that was a round robin game in the 2010 Olympics. Since 1996 we beat them in the 1998 Olympics, 2002 Olympics, 2004 World Cup, 2010 Olympics gold medal, 2014 Olympics semis and 2016 World Cup.

With the Soviets, they were nipping at our heels, and surpassing us, in tournaments in between 1972 and 1987. They were slim margins of victory. A lot can be said that perhaps Canada performs even better if they played together all year as well but either way our best vs. their best was a battle. Yeah, we haven't had that in a long time with another country.
The States are the weirdest nation in hockey.

Consistently one of the best rosters.
Consistently good at U18, U20 and Hlinka.
Consistently no gold medals at senior level.

I have no idea why. They've even sent high end talents to the Skoda Cup and aren't winning.

Tremendous program and I honestly don't know what they could change.

Last Olympic Gold was 1980. Last best on best was 1996. I don't think they've won a Skoda Cup in my lifetime.

Even in this upcoming Olympics... I'd say they have better goaltending and D then Canada. At the very least, it is very close. Their forwards aren't far off either. No real weakness to my eye. I'm getting to the point where I think I'd be happy for them if they won Gold.
 
The States are the weirdest nation in hockey.

Consistently one of the best rosters.
Consistently good at U18, U20 and Hlinka.
Consistently no gold medals at senior level.

I have no idea why. They've even sent high end talents to the Skoda Cup and aren't winning.

Tremendous program and I honestly don't know what they could change.

Last Olympic Gold was 1980. Last best on best was 1996. I don't think they've won a Skoda Cup in my lifetime.

Even in this upcoming Olympics... I'd say they have better goaltending and D then Canada. At the very least, it is very close. Their forwards aren't far off either. No real weakness to my eye. I'm getting to the point where I think I'd be happy for them if they won Gold.
Their centralized training model helps in age group specific tournaments like u-18/20 in terms of chemistry and special teams, but when you’re playing at the mens level the built in chemistry advantage mostly goes away as there are players from all different age groups, that would be my best guess
 
Is it true or just sore losers' complaints that the refereeing at the Canada-cups in the 1980s was so biased that it was little wonder that Canada won except in 1981?

The officiating was done in a similar way to what you would see in the NHL. Which, to me, is about the best you will get anywhere. On the flip side, Canada won many WJCs and of course won in 1972 in Moscow when the officiating was totally out of the blue and went completely against their style.

Now lets look to this from another point. Isnt it boring for Canada fans? Always on top, always only gold count. Silver? bleh. Bronze? Oh god, what a disappointment.
McDavid, Crosby... Wtf, who cares about Kyle Capobianco, Clark Bishop ...? 75 % dont know, who they are, where they play.

Now look to us, Slovak fans. We are happy, if our team make it to quarterfinals. Semis? Orgasm. Medal? Next 6 month main topic in every group, no only hard hockey fans.
Every player in NHL counts. Not only stars, Every one, every shift. I can say, its better to be a Slovak fan that a Canada fan.

Is it boring for Canadians? Nope. Hey, we have hockey, we aren't the best in Basketball, even though our boy James Naismith invented it. But we are the best at hockey. We take pride in that. In 1998 I don't remember a single thing about the bronze medal game in the Olympics vs. Finland. Mostly because I barely watched that game. One day after a tough semi-final loss in the WJC (can't remember the year) I walked into the living room and saw my wife watching the bronze medal game that we were playing in. I looked over, nodded, and then left the room. I had no interest in seeing if we ended up 3rd. Now, is 3rd better than 4th? Sure, but most of the time we take the Ricky Bobby approach "If you aren't first, you're last!" It is a sport we want to prove we are the best at all of the time, so yeah, gold everytime if we can!

The States are the weirdest nation in hockey.

Consistently one of the best rosters.
Consistently good at U18, U20 and Hlinka.
Consistently no gold medals at senior level.

I have no idea why. They've even sent high end talents to the Skoda Cup and aren't winning.

Tremendous program and I honestly don't know what they could change.

Last Olympic Gold was 1980. Last best on best was 1996. I don't think they've won a Skoda Cup in my lifetime.

Even in this upcoming Olympics... I'd say they have better goaltending and D then Canada. At the very least, it is very close. Their forwards aren't far off either. No real weakness to my eye. I'm getting to the point where I think I'd be happy for them if they won Gold.

Those forwards though, there is a lack of star power compared to Canada. Not nearly the same top end talent. You have Matthews, Eichel and Kane as what I would consider the top end American forwards. Matthews couldn't hit the broad side of a barn during an important game (Leaf fan's experience here) Kane is getting older, might be rattled up with what has happened in Chicago and Eichel will either miss the Olympics or he will not be himself after his surgery. How are they going to compete against a team that can throw three lines centered by McDavid, MacKinnon and Crosby? It will be tough.

They are winning in the WJCs a lot more than they ever have though. 2004 was their first gold, and there have been plenty since.
 
In 1998 I don't remember a single thing about the bronze medal game in the Olympics vs. Finland. Mostly because I barely watched that game. One day after a tough semi-final loss in the WJC (can't remember the year) I walked into the living room and saw my wife watching the bronze medal game that we were playing in. I looked over, nodded, and then left the room. I had no interest in seeing if we ended up 3rd. Now, is 3rd better than 4th? Sure, but most of the time we take the Ricky Bobby approach "If you aren't first, you're last!" It is a sport we want to prove we are the best at all of the time, so yeah, gold everytime if we can!

Exactly what i said. Only gold count. Silver and bronze is nothing.
 
The officiating was done in a similar way to what you would see in the NHL. Which, to me, is about the best you will get anywhere. On the flip side, Canada won many WJCs and of course won in 1972 in Moscow when the officiating was totally out of the blue and went completely against their style.



Is it boring for Canadians? Nope. Hey, we have hockey, we aren't the best in Basketball, even though our boy James Naismith invented it. But we are the best at hockey. We take pride in that. In 1998 I don't remember a single thing about the bronze medal game in the Olympics vs. Finland. Mostly because I barely watched that game. One day after a tough semi-final loss in the WJC (can't remember the year) I walked into the living room and saw my wife watching the bronze medal game that we were playing in. I looked over, nodded, and then left the room. I had no interest in seeing if we ended up 3rd. Now, is 3rd better than 4th? Sure, but most of the time we take the Ricky Bobby approach "If you aren't first, you're last!" It is a sport we want to prove we are the best at all of the time, so yeah, gold everytime if we can!



Those forwards though, there is a lack of star power compared to Canada. Not nearly the same top end talent. You have Matthews, Eichel and Kane as what I would consider the top end American forwards. Matthews couldn't hit the broad side of a barn during an important game (Leaf fan's experience here) Kane is getting older, might be rattled up with what has happened in Chicago and Eichel will either miss the Olympics or he will not be himself after his surgery. How are they going to compete against a team that can throw three lines centered by McDavid, MacKinnon and Crosby? It will be tough.

They are winning in the WJCs a lot more than they ever have though. 2004 was their first gold, and there have been plenty since.
I consider the US forwards to be stacked. That has to be a Top 3 forward core in the world. Agree the Canadian C's are deeper and better. I still think US might have better Goalies and are at least tied on D. What's more important... having a better 3C or a better starting goalie? Having a better 4C or a better 5/6 Dman?

It's all very close. The games should be amazing.
 
I consider the US forwards to be stacked. That has to be a Top 3 forward core in the world. Agree the Canadian C's are deeper and better. I still think US might have better Goalies and are at least tied on D. What's more important... having a better 3C or a better starting goalie? Having a better 4C or a better 5/6 Dman?

It's all very close. The games should be amazing.

We'll see. I think the depth wins out with Canada though. They can roll 4 extremely dangerous lines if they want to. We still have Fleury and Price as potential goalies, nothing wrong with that, and I think our D, if they pick it right, it as good as anyone else's.
 

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