When, if, will any country’s roster be generally considered above Canada’s?

[Yozhik v tumane]

I also recall some North American outlets naming Sweden the favorite before the 2014 Olympics and yeah, you definitely had reason to hope, although straight down the roster I’ve never seen any team match Canada’s depth. However, when you had Peter Forsberg and Mats Sundin available, you didn’t worry about being overpowered offensively.

It wouldn’t have been too controversial a claim to call Lundqvist the best goaltender in the world in 2014. Erik Karlsson was the best defenseman, and Hedman was having a huge breakout season. But even besides those two, Sweden’s defensive depth was an embarrassment of riches. OEL, Kronwall, Hjalmarsson-Oduya’s stocks were peaking.
And the centers were looking like a position of strength prior to the tourney: Sedin, Bäckström, Zetterberg, I mean…

But then all of them were out come the finals. Imagine having Patrik Berglund as your #1C versus Canada in an Olympic gold medal game.

I don’t believe Hedman would have changed how anything went down, but it was an almost criminal snub. “Yeah he might already be a top 3 or 5 defenseman in the world, but see these other guys are established pairs and Tallinder is a fun guy in the locker room”.

 

[Zenos]

Pretty broad question but just to narrow it down to sporting events. They seem to be doing not too bad at most Olympic sports. Just a comparison with other Countries from the Northern Hemisphere.

Not that it alters your point significantly, but why leave out major Northern hemisphere countries like USA, China, Russia, Germany, or France?

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

What else is Canada gonna be good at?

The women’s team just won the World Cup of soccer Olympic gold in soccer. Also, good at curling and I think alpine skiing?

 

[Bixby Snyder]

The women’s team just won the World Cup of soccer.

No, they didn't.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

No, they didn't.

Sorry, Olympic gold medal.

 

[Czechboy]

No, they didn't.

They did win the Gold at the Olympics.

To the what else is Canada good at point... outside of the winter sports. I could see Canada rising up a little in women's basketball. I also think they'll get stronger at soccer, basketball and volleyball. Rugby 6's (might have the number wrong). There are a LOT of competitve clubs for kids sports now and it could yield some tremendous results down the road. Canada is also a nation of immigrants and not all immigrants flock to hockey. We could become really strong in other areas.

For instance... Tennis. Currently have a lot of TOP players in both womens and mens... most of them are immigrants kids who pursued something other than hockey. It's fantastic. I never thought I'd see the day where Canada is better than the Czechs in tennis.. but here we are. Raonic, Pospisil, Auger, Shapo, Biance, Leyla, Gabbie is a tremendous doubles specialist and maybe Genie makes a comeback. It's a deep talent pool.

If they had a traditional davis cup and fed cup.. Canada could legit win both.

 

[ORRFForever]

They did win the Gold at the Olympics.

To the what else is Canada good at point... outside of the winter sports. I could see Canada rising up a little in women's basketball. I also think they'll get stronger at soccer, basketball and volleyball. Rugby 6's (might have the number wrong). There are a LOT of competitve clubs for kids sports now and it could yield some tremendous results down the road. Canada is also a nation of immigrants and not all immigrants flock to hockey. We could become really strong in other areas.

For instance... Tennis. Currently have a lot of TOP players in both womens and mens... most of them are immigrants kids who pursued something other than hockey. It's fantastic. I never thought I'd see the day where Canada is better than the Czechs in tennis.. but here we are. Raonic, Pospisil, Auger, Shapo, Biance, Leyla, Gabbie is a tremendous doubles specialist and maybe Genie makes a comeback. It's a deep talent pool.

If they had a traditional davis cup and fed cup.. Canada could legit win both.

Well said.

 

[Czechboy]

Well said.

Almost.. forgot to mention we have the World's greatest athele right now!!!

 

[ORRFForever]

Almost.. forgot to mention we have the World's greatest athele right now!!!

View attachment 470798

You are such a positive person, CB. You are an awesome poster. Well done.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Canada is better than the Czechs in tennis

Okay?

 

[User9992]

Team USA may be after 10 years from now if interest in hockey will grow in USA & more young kids start to play hockey in States.

 

[newmanager]

Not that it alters your point significantly, but why leave out major Northern hemisphere countries like USA, China, Russia, Germany, or France?

It's a tiny bit of work but here you go. As for the question on when Canada will be caught in Hockey. Can't see it happening for a heck of a long time if ever. They just spend so much more per kid that most countries would not be willing to pay for. Other countries use tax dollars for different types of sport and recreation than Canada does. Canada uses lots of their money for hockey. Kids are always on the ice there.

	2020 Summer
Place	Country	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
1	United States	39	41	33	113
2	China	38	32	18	88
5	Russia	20	28	23	71
8	France	10	12	11	33
9	Germany	10	11	16	37
11	Canada	7	6	11	24
	2018 Winter
4	United States	9	8	6	23
14	China	1	6	2	9
7	Russia	2	6	9	17
9	France	5	4	6	15
2	Germany	14	10	7	31
3	Canada	11	8	10	29
	2016 Summer
1	United States	46	37	38	121
3	China	25	19	26	70
4	Russia	19	17	20	56
7	France	10	18	14	42
5	Germany	17	10	15	42
20	Canada	4	3	15	22
	2014 Winter
2	United States	9	7	12	28
11	China	3	4	2	9
1	Russia	13	11	9	33
8	France	4	4	7	15
6	Germany	8	6	5	19
4	Canada	10	10	5	25
	2012 Summer
1	United States	47	27	30	104
2	China	38	31	22	91
4	Russia	20	21	27	68
7	France	11	11	13	35
6	Germany	11	20	13	44
27	Canada	2	6	10	18
	2010 Winter
3	United States	9	15	13	37
7	China	5	2	4	11
11	Russia	3	5	7	15
12	France	2	3	6	11
2	Germany	10	13	7	30
1	Canada	14	7	5	26

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Hanji]

It's a tiny bit of work but here you go. As for the question on when Canada will be caught in Hockey. Can't see it happening for a heck of a long time if ever. They just spend so much more per kid that most countries would not be willing to pay for. Other countries use tax dollars for different types of sport and recreation than Canada does. Canada uses lots of their money for hockey. Kids are always on the ice there.

	2020 Summer
Place	Country	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
1	United States	39	41	33	113
2	China	38	32	18	88
5	Russia	20	28	23	71
8	France	10	12	11	33
9	Germany	10	11	16	37
11	Canada	7	6	11	24
	2018 Winter
4	United States	9	8	6	23
14	China	1	6	2	9
7	Russia	2	6	9	17
9	France	5	4	6	15
2	Germany	14	10	7	31
3	Canada	11	8	10	29
	2016 Summer
1	United States	46	37	38	121
3	China	25	19	26	70
4	Russia	19	17	20	56
7	France	10	18	14	42
5	Germany	17	10	15	42
20	Canada	4	3	15	22
	2014 Winter
2	United States	9	7	12	28
11	China	3	4	2	9
1	Russia	13	11	9	33
8	France	4	4	7	15
6	Germany	8	6	5	19
4	Canada	10	10	5	25
	2012 Summer
1	United States	47	27	30	104
2	China	38	31	22	91
4	Russia	20	21	27	68
7	France	11	11	13	35
6	Germany	11	20	13	44
27	Canada	2	6	10	18
	2010 Winter
3	United States	9	15	13	37
7	China	5	2	4	11
11	Russia	3	5	7	15
12	France	2	3	6	11
2	Germany	10	13	7	30
1	Canada	14	7	5	26

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The US Olympic Committee and its sports governing bodies aren't funded by tax money. Funds come from sponsorship and broadcast rights

 

[newmanager]

The US Olympic Committee and its sports governing bodies aren't funded by tax money. Funds come from sponsorship and broadcast rights

Yup. That's why it'll be nearly impossible to catch Canada. They get sponsorship and broadcast dollars too but on top of that use municipal and federal tax dollars to subsidize sports especially hockey. The average Canadian kid going into major junior has upwards of 500 games under their belt. Real intense games either league, tournament or playoff. Not scrimmages. Best things for developing hockey IQ are games. Games are where you develop instincts, anticipation and creativity. Those don't improve with practices nor study despite what some in here may believe. Then they also get practices for their skill development, conditioning and such. Rinks charge $300.00 per hour. It's expensive but people are willing to pay for it. The hockey funding groups realized years ago that investing in hockey brought billions back to Canada in the form of making multi millionaires out of thousands of Canadians and getting University educated Professionals moving back to Canada after having gotten the education free through NCAA hockey scholarships. I don't know what the numbers are like now but in the early 2000's I think something like 42% of NCAA D1 hockey players were Canadian.

 

[Peat]

Long term, it obviously relies on a demographic change, where in another nation equals or surpasses the number of kids given a taste of hockey, then given a chance at a high level hockey education.

Short term - there's a few rosters that look close-ish if they could just get a couple more superstars and exploit possible weaknesses opening up on Canada's blueline and net, but it feels like most of the incoming stars are Canadian.

They did win the Gold at the Olympics.

To the what else is Canada good at point... outside of the winter sports. I could see Canada rising up a little in women's basketball. I also think they'll get stronger at soccer, basketball and volleyball. Rugby 6's (might have the number wrong). There are a LOT of competitve clubs for kids sports now and it could yield some tremendous results down the road. Canada is also a nation of immigrants and not all immigrants flock to hockey. We could become really strong in other areas.

For instance... Tennis. Currently have a lot of TOP players in both womens and mens... most of them are immigrants kids who pursued something other than hockey. It's fantastic. I never thought I'd see the day where Canada is better than the Czechs in tennis.. but here we are. Raonic, Pospisil, Auger, Shapo, Biance, Leyla, Gabbie is a tremendous doubles specialist and maybe Genie makes a comeback. It's a deep talent pool.

If they had a traditional davis cup and fed cup.. Canada could legit win both.

7s, not 6s.

 

[Czechboy]

Long term, it obviously relies on a demographic change, where in another nation equals or surpasses the number of kids given a taste of hockey, then given a chance at a high level hockey education.

Short term - there's a few rosters that look close-ish if they could just get a couple more superstars and exploit possible weaknesses opening up on Canada's blueline and net, but it feels like most of the incoming stars are Canadian.



7s, not 6s.

Thank you. To your other point. I'm pretty sure that the next 2 first overall picks are Canadian.

 

[kyle44]

Team USA may be after 10 years from now if interest in hockey will grow in USA & more young kids start to play hockey in States.

This. There is also an increasing trend of Canadian (and other nations) NHLers having children while playing in the USA or remaining in the USA after their career ends and having children. There seems to be an increasing number of sons of Canadian NHLers on the US NTDP each year. These kids often have good genetics and access to world-class training and facilities.

 

[Hanji]

Yup. That's why it'll be nearly impossible to catch Canada. They get sponsorship and broadcast dollars too but on top of that use municipal and federal tax dollars to subsidize sports especially hockey. The average Canadian kid going into major junior has upwards of 500 games under their belt. Real intense games either league, tournament or playoff. Not scrimmages. Best things for developing hockey IQ are games. Games are where you develop instincts, anticipation and creativity. Those don't improve with practices nor study despite what some in here may believe. Then they also get practices for their skill development, conditioning and such. Rinks charge $300.00 per hour. It's expensive but people are willing to pay for it. The hockey funding groups realized years ago that investing in hockey brought billions back to Canada in the form of making multi millionaires out of thousands of Canadians and getting University educated Professionals moving back to Canada after having gotten the education free through NCAA hockey scholarships. I don't know what the numbers are like now but in the early 2000's I think something like 42% of NCAA D1 hockey players were Canadian.

Are you sure about this? Hockey Canada's annual report for 2020 details very little federal funding, if any. Hockey Alberta's most recent audit outlines $0 government funding. Revenue streams are very similar to those of USA Hockey. These entities survive on corporate grants and sponsorship, tournament revenue, etc.

I suppose municipal money might go to subsidize the game, but just how much? From what I'm reading on this board the #1 impediment to playing the game in Canada is outrageous cost. Same here in the US. Local tax money is used to build rinks here, but beyond that....

If anything, a place like Russia likely spends far more tax money per skater than their North American counterparts. If I'm not mistaken some KHL teams are funded solely by municipal governments.

 

[newmanager]

Rinks charge $300.00 per hour cause that's what they cost to run at minimum. My son's teams pay $75.00 per hour for the ice. Who do you think picks up the other $225.00 per hour?
Yes of course the cost is lots. Registration is $1200.00 and then cash calls and fundraising. That's just for house league. Triple and Double A are triple that amount. Some house league teams set their fundraising goals at up to $15,000.00 per year for extra ice time, travel and tournaments. Triple and Double A significantly more. Hockey Academy's are even more expensive. They pay the full rate for facility use so $300.00 per hour. Adult hockey is not subsidized also. I think private rinks like CAC and KC in Edmonton charge even more than $300.00 per hour. Kind of expensive to run rinks but Canada having a colder climate helps. Outdoor rinks are used for free but cost money to run. Who do you think picks up the tab for that?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I fully expect the U.S. to ice a better team within 15-20 years. The relative importance of hockey in Canada appears to be dropping as the population changes, and in the U.S. it's gaining traction as a sport for the prosperous middle classes.

 

[Hanji]

Rinks charge $300.00 per hour cause that's what they cost to run at minimum. My son's teams pay $75.00 per hour for the ice. Who do you think picks up the other $225.00 per hour?
Yes of course the cost is lots. Registration is $1200.00 and then cash calls and fundraising. That's just for house league. Triple and Double A are triple that amount. Some house league teams set their fundraising goals at up to $15,000.00 per year for extra ice time, travel and tournaments. Triple and Double A significantly more. Hockey Academy's are even more expensive. They pay the full rate for facility use so $300.00 per hour. Adult hockey is not subsidized also. I think private rinks like CAC and KC in Edmonton charge even more than $300.00 per hour. Kind of expensive to run rinks but Canada having a colder climate helps. Outdoor rinks are used for free but cost money to run. Who do you think picks up the tab for that?

How is that different from the US though? As I alluded to, local funds here frequently pay for rinks and rink usage too; outdoor community rinks included. This is nothing unique to Canada.
The cost of hockey in Canada and the US is relatively equal. If the cost of putting a kid through hockey was exponentially cheaper in Canada because of government funding, you'd see a gazillion American families sending their kids up North to play. But this isn't the case.

 

[alko]

This. There is also an increasing trend of Canadian (and other nations) NHLers having children while playing in the USA or remaining in the USA after their career ends and having children. There seems to be an increasing number of sons of Canadian NHLers on the US NTDP each year. These kids often have good genetics and access to world-class training and facilities.

Interesting. Can you give us names?

 

[kyle44]

Interesting. Can you give us names?

Some of these are going back several years and some are on a different tier (talent wise) than others. I'm sure American posters will also point out that some of these kids only made the team on name recognition alone.

Jake Sanderson - son of Geoff Sanderson
Josh Norris - son of Dwayne Norris
Tage and Tyce Thompson - sons of Brent Thompson
Thomas Bordeleau - son of Sebastien Bordeleau
Brendan Brisson - son of Patrice Brisson (didn't play NTDP)
Tyler Madden - son of John Madden (didn't play NTDP)
Kiefer Bellows - son of Brian Bellows
Cayden Primeau - son of Keith Primeau
Red Savage - son of Brian Savage
Ryan MacInnis - son of Al MacInnis
Stefan Matteau - son of Stephane Matteau
Jack DeBoer - son of Pete DeBoer
Logan and Caden Brown - sons of Jeff Brown
Kaden Muir - son of Bryan Muir
Gabriel Perreault - son of Yanic Perreault
Ryan St. Louis - son of Martin St. Louis

And reaching way back for these:

Ryan and Chris Bourque - sons of Ray Bourque
Colin Wilson - son of Carey Wilson
Connor Murphy - son of Gord Murphy
Nick Foligno - son of Mike Foligno
Zach Parise - son of JP Parise
Philp McRae - son of Basil McRae
John Ramage - son of Rob Ramage

And from European countries:

Oliver Wahlström - son of Joakim Wahlström who played lower level hockey in Sweden and NCAA
Marek Hejduk - son of Milan Hejduk
Jacob Pivonka - son of Michael Pivonka
Henrik and Adam Samuelsson - sons of Ulf Samuelsson
Mattias Samuelsson - son of Kjell Samuelsson

I believe Cole Caufield, Rutger McGroarty, Dylan Duke and Cutter Gauthier's (born in Sweden) fathers are all Canadian as well. They played professional hockey in the USA but didn't make the NHL.

 

[alko]

And from European countries:

Oliver Wahlström - son of Joakim Wahlström who played lower level hockey in Sweden and NCAA
Marek Hejduk - son of Milan Hejduk
Jacob Pivonka - son of Michael Pivonka
Henrik and Adam Samuelsson - sons of Ulf Samuelsson
Mattias Samuelsson - son of Kjell Samuelsson

Paul Stastny and Yan Stastny

 

[novisor]

I feel like the game is getting smaller and not bigger.. down to 5 nation's now.

Gotta disagree here. Assuming the five you are talking about are Canada, the US, Russia, Sweden, Finland. The Czech's should still be included. Going through a bit of a downtime - yes, however still have good young players in the show (Pasta, Zadina, Necas, Zacha). Not to mention teams on the upswing talent-wise, like Germany (Draitsaitl, Stutzle, Reichel, Seider, Peterka + Silver in 2018) and Switzerland (Hischier, Kurashev, Meier). Hockey is still growing. Also have to consider the improvement we've seen out of top 5 counties like Finland who went from a quasi-contender, to an out right Gold/Silver favorite in many tournaments.