When does a country enter "Big" status recognition internationally?

[Albatros]

Well, we can't get any further with the subjunctive. Canada was still world champion in times (e.g. 20s in the 20th century) when ice hockey was a different sport and no competitive conditions took place. But speaking of the subjunctive. Had it also been a "Soviet Cup", Canada would not have won anything there.

For what it's worth, Canada won the 1987 Izvestia tournament.

 

[Ajax84]

No one in the big 5 is in danger of dropping out and the Czechs need about 4 guys to make it back in the conversation. All 4 would have to be very good NHL D.

*whispers*: Czechoslovakia. Do it.

 

[Czechboy]

*whispers*: Czechoslovakia. Do it.

Which 4 Slovaks would make us scare Canada? Sweden? USA? Finland? Russia?

Combining two hockey nations eliminates one. Plus, I love my Slovak hockey.

 

[Phil McKraken]

I think a good criteria for a Big whatever is - would your national team be the best team in the NHL? Currently that's true for Sweden, Finland, Canada, USA and Russia, and arguably for Czechia too.

 

[Czechboy]

I think a good criteria for a Big whatever is - would your national team be the best team in the NHL? Currently that's true for Sweden, Finland, Canada, USA and Russia, and arguably for Czechia too.

That's a good criteria. Czech D would still be in trouble. Eg. when jiricek arrives ... Gudas will depart. Poor hronek may never play with 5 other solid NHL Czech D. Next gen is promising on paper but years away.

 

[Ajax84]

Which 4 Slovaks would make us scare Canada? Sweden? USA? Finland? Russia?

Combining two hockey nations eliminates one. Plus, I love my Slovak hockey.

Continuing with my absolute seriousness here: Fehervary + Cernak as a (top?) defensive pair makes a big improvement. Ruzicka and Tatar also make a difference. Plus Slafkovsky, Nemec, Dvorsky, Sykora to look forward to.

 

[Czechboy]

Continuing with my absolute seriousness here: Fehervary + Cernak as a (top?) defensive pair makes a big improvement. Ruzicka and Tatar also make a difference. Plus Slafkovsky, Nemec, Dvorsky, Sykora to look forward to.

So our D would go from (don't know which side they all play but just doing it by order)

Hronek - Gudas
Rutta - Simek
Zboril - Hajek


to

Hronek - Cernak
Fehervary - Gudas
Rutta - Simek

Definitely better as Zboril and Hajek look to be out of the league soon... but it's still not close to the Big 5.

Ruzicka and Tatar.. Here are 12 Czechs that come to mind (some are injured right now):

Pastrnak, Krejci, Necas, Chytil, Kubalik, Kampf, Zacha, Palat, Hertl, Vrana, Voracek, Faksa

This leaves guys like Zadina, Blumel, Cervenka and Nosek out. Even if you replace Tatar and Ruzicka with anyone of those 16 guys, are we that much better? I think we'd still be 6th and Slovakia no longer has their own team. Last thing I want.

The new guys - Slaf to Nemec.. I'm so excited to watch them help the Slovaks be awesome again! Them with the previously mentioned 4 is starting to be a great team and I want Slovakia to be awesome. Hope Gajan becomes an NHL goalie!

Just like I'm hoping Kulich, Sale, Jiricek, Svozil, Hrabal and Spacek help us to continue to get better and maybe, big maybe, back into contenders.

I want both to improve and fight for medals!

 

[Czechboy]

Continuing with my absolute seriousness here: Fehervary + Cernak as a (top?) defensive pair makes a big improvement. Ruzicka and Tatar also make a difference. Plus Slafkovsky, Nemec, Dvorsky, Sykora to look forward to.

as a fun aside, these two have very similar stats.. both are averaging around 19:30 a game too!

 

[Ajax84]

but it's still not close to the Big 5.

Have you looked at Finland and Russia's defensive options?

I think we'd still be 6th and Slovakia no longer has their own team. Last thing I want.

Maybe, but it's not a sure thing. And technically, you'd no longer have your team either. Make Bratislava the new capitol, if it helps.

Anyways, I'm not saying you have to reunite, but y'know... the offer is on the table. I've contacted my people at the embassy, so they're ready to get things in motion if/when you need.

as a fun aside, these two have very similar stats..

(heh, I did notice that. Given that they're left-shot and right-shot, I had to imagine them as a pairing)

 

[Czechboy]

Have you looked at Finland and Russia's defensive options?



Maybe, but it's not a sure thing. And technically, you'd no longer have your team either. Make Bratislava the new capitol, if it helps.

Anyways, I'm not saying you have to reunite, but y'know... the offer is on the table. I've contacted my people at the embassy, so they're ready to get things in motion if/when you need.


(heh, I did notice that. Given that they're left-shot and right-shot, I had to imagine them as a pairing)

Go 1 2 3 here for paragraphs...

Finn's have Heiskanen and SISU... but yes, their D is not much better but their team and structure sure is! Russia has a few pieces I like more (love Zub, Provo and Sergachaev) but it's not a homerun.. but have you seen their goalies... they'd cut 3 guys that would make the big 5. But your point is correct.

Great point, no argument, so now the Czechs don't have the team. No matter what, one less team! It'd be like combinng the Oilers (my lifelong fav team) and Bruins (my fav team because of the same Czechs) and them winning a cup. I'm down to 1 team. I was born 1 hour from Bratislava.. gorgeous city! Again, I have nothing against Slovakia.. big fan.

They would be an amazing pair.. do you think they'd make Canada/Sweden/US? I know Hronek wouldn't and no one else would even be in the conversation (and Gudas is my fav!). I've said, in prior years, that the 6 Swedes that got cut would all make the Czechs but that was a few years ago... Eg. at the time, Klef, Larsson wouldn't make the Swedes team a few years ago.. they'd be our top pair. FTR.. much maligned Tyson Barrie would be on the Czech first pair too. Maligned Finn D Ristolainen would too.

 

[Ajax84]

Hieskanen is great, but he's the only Finnish defender who'd make the starting roster of Canada, USA, or Sweden. As for Russia: goalkeeper depth is almost a curse rather than a blessing, unless they can figure out some genius system that involves having multiple keepers on the ice.

I think Cernak would enter into consideration for any national team, if not make the final cut, given that the postseason is "real" in a way that the regular season isn't, and that Cernak has been an important part of Tampa's playoff achievements. Him and Fehervary would both be guarantees for Russia and Finland. Rasdim Ristolek would be playing behind Hronek and Rutta, as far as right-shot defenders go.

I'm only kidding around with you about this stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't mean it. Czechoslovakia has a great history in hockey, one which both present nations could regard as their own. It's unfortunate to see its two successors reduced to mediocrity (Czech Republic) or off the map entirely (Slovakia, now definitively behind the Swiss and Germans, but at least finally showing signs of recovery).

Czechoslovakia wasn't a large country, and population isn't everything, but being a smaller country automatically means playing at a higher difficulty setting. For comparison, even a united Czechoslovakia would only have a population between 1/9 and 1/10 that of Russia. The US state that I live in has over 4x the population of the Czech Republic.

On the bright side, things are looking better at the junior level, and yes, there were the Czech/Slovak teams of the 90's and early 2000's (although Slovakia was screwed over by the IIHF and Olympics, so that team almost never saw the ice). Still, it doesn't seem likely either will be able to return to the sporting status of the formerly united state. (And yes, I'm aware that there are issues more important than an ice-game at stake here, but it's not like there was any actual ethnic or sectarian strife, in your case).

...different topic, but sort of related: It's always struck me as odd that European countries, especially if they're smaller countries, almost never combine their top levels of domestic sports competition. Is there any good reason the Czech Republic and Slovakia don't have a shared competition, instead of the separate Extraliga(s)? It seems like self-sabotage for smaller countries to not pool their resources.

 

[Eye of Ra]

When i say it.

 

[BlueBaron]

It's more about being there regularly and challenging for medals/podium finishes imo.

 

[Hanji]

Have you looked at Finland and Russia's defensive options?



Maybe, but it's not a sure thing. And technically, you'd no longer have your team either. Make Bratislava the new capitol, if it helps.

Anyways, I'm not saying you have to reunite, but y'know... the offer is on the table. I've contacted my people at the embassy, so they're ready to get things in motion if/when you need.


(heh, I did notice that. Given that they're left-shot and right-shot, I had to imagine them as a pairing)

Russia’s backend isn’t too bad actually. It’s not a strength by any means but not a giant liability like it used to be.
And the goaltending is crazy good.

Sergachev-Provorov
Orlov-Zub
Gavrikov- Romanov

Vasilevskiy
Shesterkin
Sorokin

 

[Czechboy]

Russia’s backend isn’t too bad actually. It’s not a strength by any means but not a giant liability like it used to be.
And the goaltending is crazy good.

Sergachev-Provorov
Orlov-Zub
Gavrikov- Romanov

Vasilevskiy
Shesterkin
Sorokin

It's not Sweden/US/Canada but it's a DAMN good D core! As an Oil fan I keep asking for us to get Provo, Zub and Gavrikov. I was pissed the Isles got Romanov instead of us too! I still think Samo rises up and becomes a very good NHLer too! Sergachev is a beast.

Those goalies though.. your next 3 would make most of the rosters.lol It's insanely good and I thiink a lot of people aren't aware how good Pyotr is going to be!

 

[Czechboy]

Hieskanen is great, but he's the only Finnish defender who'd make the starting roster of Canada, USA, or Sweden. As for Russia: goalkeeper depth is almost a curse rather than a blessing, unless they can figure out some genius system that involves having multiple keepers on the ice.

I think Cernak would enter into consideration for any national team, if not make the final cut, given that the postseason is "real" in a way that the regular season isn't, and that Cernak has been an important part of Tampa's playoff achievements. Him and Fehervary would both be guarantees for Russia and Finland. Rasdim Ristolek would be playing behind Hronek and Rutta, as far as right-shot defenders go.

I'm only kidding around with you about this stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't mean it. Czechoslovakia has a great history in hockey, one which both present nations could regard as their own. It's unfortunate to see its two successors reduced to mediocrity (Czech Republic) or off the map entirely (Slovakia, now definitively behind the Swiss and Germans, but at least finally showing signs of recovery).

Czechoslovakia wasn't a large country, and population isn't everything, but being a smaller country automatically means playing at a higher difficulty setting. For comparison, even a united Czechoslovakia would only have a population between 1/9 and 1/10 that of Russia. The US state that I live in has over 4x the population of the Czech Republic.

On the bright side, things are looking better at the junior level, and yes, there were the Czech/Slovak teams of the 90's and early 2000's (although Slovakia was screwed over by the IIHF and Olympics, so that team almost never saw the ice). Still, it doesn't seem likely either will be able to return to the sporting status of the formerly united state. (And yes, I'm aware that there are issues more important than an ice-game at stake here, but it's not like there was any actual ethnic or sectarian strife, in your case).

...different topic, but sort of related: It's always struck me as odd that European countries, especially if they're smaller countries, almost never combine their top levels of domestic sports competition. Is there any good reason the Czech Republic and Slovakia don't have a shared competition, instead of the separate Extraliga(s)? It seems like self-sabotage for smaller countries to not pool their resources.

Sorry missed this!

Do the Finn's need a Makar though? I get they'd want one but their system is a nightmare and those D compliment that system beautifully! While they didn't get gold during those best on best Olympics they medalled the most.

I don't think Cernak would be considered for Canada/US/Sweden.. I actually think Hronek is better this season (more points, better +/-, plays more minutes) and he wouldn't either. Rutta was also a nice part of those cup runs! Not that I think he's better than Cernak but he was a part of that too and is doing well in Pittsburth (better than I thought tbh)

As far as it falling apart.. yeah, 2 factors to me.

1. communsim leaving and funding and the whole country was in disarray. Not their fault and unfortunate.
2. from the Czech side, pure internal corruption and nothing but morons in charge of the federation.. totally their fault!

Eg. Swedes and Finn's also had massive lulls and had summits and turned it all around within 5 years. We sucked for 2 decades and still not 100% sure if we've turned it around (arrows are up but that doesn't mean a thing).

They tried to combine the 2 leagues awhile ago and it was declined. Again, I don't think they consider themselves partners and are happy to be seperate (not out of hate or animosity, just two proud nations). I'm sure Serbia and Croatia could make a hell of a soccer team. Germans and Swiss could combine their leagues too. Why not a Czech/Polish League? A slovak/hungary league? My point being they are neighbouring countries and are independent. I could be off but I don't want to see them combine in anyway at all. And, again, love the slovaks and their hockey and this new generation (more first rounders this year than Czechs.. again). Hope this keeps up!

 

[Czechboy]

Hieskanen is great, but he's the only Finnish defender who'd make the starting roster of Canada, USA, or Sweden. As for Russia: goalkeeper depth is almost a curse rather than a blessing, unless they can figure out some genius system that involves having multiple keepers on the ice.

I think Cernak would enter into consideration for any national team, if not make the final cut, given that the postseason is "real" in a way that the regular season isn't, and that Cernak has been an important part of Tampa's playoff achievements. Him and Fehervary would both be guarantees for Russia and Finland. Rasdim Ristolek would be playing behind Hronek and Rutta, as far as right-shot defenders go.

I'm only kidding around with you about this stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't mean it. Czechoslovakia has a great history in hockey, one which both present nations could regard as their own. It's unfortunate to see its two successors reduced to mediocrity (Czech Republic) or off the map entirely (Slovakia, now definitively behind the Swiss and Germans, but at least finally showing signs of recovery).

Czechoslovakia wasn't a large country, and population isn't everything, but being a smaller country automatically means playing at a higher difficulty setting. For comparison, even a united Czechoslovakia would only have a population between 1/9 and 1/10 that of Russia. The US state that I live in has over 4x the population of the Czech Republic.

On the bright side, things are looking better at the junior level, and yes, there were the Czech/Slovak teams of the 90's and early 2000's (although Slovakia was screwed over by the IIHF and Olympics, so that team almost never saw the ice). Still, it doesn't seem likely either will be able to return to the sporting status of the formerly united state. (And yes, I'm aware that there are issues more important than an ice-game at stake here, but it's not like there was any actual ethnic or sectarian strife, in your case).

...different topic, but sort of related: It's always struck me as odd that European countries, especially if they're smaller countries, almost never combine their top levels of domestic sports competition. Is there any good reason the Czech Republic and Slovakia don't have a shared competition, instead of the separate Extraliga(s)? It seems like self-sabotage for smaller countries to not pool their resources.

Also,lol

Remember that Czechoslovakia was also on top because of the bullshit 'amateur' thing. That was corrupt as hell! Again, not their fault or their choice but it is a thing that happens. I always laugh when the posters say a world JR should have an asterisk because of unfair playing fields while ignoring all the golds/silvers/bronzes the Communist nations won in the 70's while playing 'amateurs'.lol