When are we going to be honest with ourselves about how bad Kyle Dubas is?

[DingDongCharlie]

It’s clear he doesn’t know how to build a hockey team tbh. Adding Karlsson when they didn’t need him. He strikes me as a Dorion type who just adds big names cause they are available, not actually looking at how they would fit into the team

It's like the modern version of the Rangers before the '04 Lockout. "Hey, this guys available? Everyone knows him, let's get him." Zero thought put into proper roster construction.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's honestly impressive how badly he's done in PIT.

Gave away Guentzel for nothing when that should've been the first big trade to recoup assets.

Acquired EK65 and lost out on a future potential top pairing D in Dickinson that SJS got with that pick.

I didn't have high hopes, but he has basically fully realized a lot of what Toronto said about him. He has no clue on how to build a hockey roster, is consistently losing trades, his drafting and player evaluation is mediocre.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

If you go to the Leafs board, there is not one single discussion on Kyle Dubas.

We don't care about that dude anymore. Let him be the fall guy in Pittsburgh, don't care!

 

[wired14]

I never fully disliked Dubas as GM of the Leafs and, if you look at his full body of work there, I think he did some good things. The team didn’t win with him though, so his legacy will always be tainted. My biggest issue with him was that he seemed to get very interested in specific players - I noticed that he acquired some of the same players in Pittsburgh (Bunting, Acciari) as he had in Toronto. And whenever he got a guy who came from the OHL, you better believe that player had ties to the Soo Greyhounds. The thing with Karlsson never made sense and I thought it was funny when reports came out afterwards that he was working on acquiring him for Toronto, which made sense with their D core and where they were in terms of their team aspirations, but really made little sense for the Pens. It seemed like he just thought, screw it, I want the player and I already did a bunch of the work. I’ll just get home anyways.

 

[kevsh]

Kyle started out in Toronto with the philosophy that small skill can win and by the time he realized that wasn't the case the damage was done. He then tried to switch gears and added size/toughness but with a soft as butter core it made little difference.

(On a side note, Treliving is just continuing this trend of adding toughness but if he hasn't come to the same conclusion about this core yet, well, tbh it doesn't matter - we're clearly stuck with this core until they retire).

As for the Karlsson deal, it was similar to bringing in Tavares to Toronto. The Pens didn't need an offense-minded RD but had holes elsewhere. Toronto didn't need a 2C but the blueline needed work. In either case he made a major move and allocated precious cap space to an area in the roster that it wasn't required.

And that's maybe his biggest weakness, is that while on one hand he's done some miraculous things to squeeze under the cap and still ice a playoff team (in Toronto that is), he's badly misguided on the main concept of cap management. And that is, the basic formula of how that cap space should be allocated throughout the lineup.

In any case, good luck Pittsburgh. As long as he's calling the shots you're going to need it.

 

[Apex Predator]

If you go to the Leafs board, there is not one single discussion on Kyle Dubas.

We don't care about that dude anymore. Let him be the fall guy in Pittsburgh, don't care!

There’s not a specific thread about Dubas but threads turn into something related to Dubas.

 

[crowi]

Most posters are honest about Dubas being a mediocre GM at best, some Leaf fans still disagree and think they lost something special when he got shitcanned.

 

[Anomie2029]

I don't know how much is really Dubas' fault in Pittsburgh. It's clear the directive from ownership was to compete not rebuild. So he's trying (unsuccessfully) to follow that directive.

As for his time in Toronto, he built a strong team and added pieces that just didn't work from them Foligno, Brodie, etc. But again, it's clear he thought they needed to break up the core and the Leafs got rid of him. Leafs still pushing the same core for another couple of seasons and expecting different results.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kyle started out in Toronto with the philosophy that small skill can win and by the time he realized that wasn't the case the damage was done. He then tried to switch gears and added size/toughness but with a soft as butter core it made little difference.

(On a side note, Treliving is just continuing this trend of adding toughness but if he hasn't come to the same conclusion about this core yet, well, tbh it doesn't matter - we're clearly stuck with this core until they retire).

As for the Karlsson deal, it was similar to bringing in Tavares to Toronto. The Pens didn't need an offense-minded RD but had holes elsewhere. Toronto didn't need a 2C but the blueline needed work. In either case he made a major move and allocated precious cap space to an area in the roster that it wasn't required.

And that's maybe his biggest weakness, is that while on one hand he's done some miraculous things to squeeze under the cap and still ice a playoff team (in Toronto that is), he's badly misguided on the main concept of cap management. And that is, the basic formula of how that cap space should be allocated throughout the lineup.

In any case, good luck Pittsburgh. As long as he's calling the shots you're going to need it.

I don’t quite agree with the comment regarding Karlsson not being a need. The Penguins had an absolutely massive problem with the lack of puck moving from their defense. Hextall completely killed the puck moving talent of the defense with his trades in the offseason before, and there were rumors that Sullivan was pushing Hextall to trade for Chychrun at the previous deadline to address that.

The issues with Karlsson on the Penguins is with Karlsson specifically, not that they didn’t need someone with his skill set. They desperately needed a top end puck mover to play on the 2nd pair, it just shouldn’t have been a pure OFD with major defensive issues like Karlsson.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't know how much is really Dubas' fault in Pittsburgh. It's clear the directive from ownership was to compete not rebuild. So he's trying (unsuccessfully) to follow that directive.

As for his time in Toronto, he built a strong team and added pieces that just didn't work from them Foligno, Brodie, etc. But again, it's clear he thought they needed to break up the core and the Leafs got rid of him. Leafs still pushing the same core for another couple of seasons and expecting different results.

The biggest issue with Dubas in Pittsburgh is that he simply hasn’t done a good job. Anyone blaming the issues the team has on him today is completely misguided, but that doesn’t mean Dubas has done a good job.

He has drafted well and that’s really about it. His trades have been a thorough meh and his UFA signings have been awful.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

There’s not a specific thread about Dubas but threads turn into something related to Dubas.

Not as bad as on the main board here.

Leafs fans don't care about Dubas, he's someone elses problem now.

If there's people talking about him on the Leafs board it's likely that 1% delusional Leafs fan that spends all day on there, or a troll posing as a Leafs fan, which is also a thing.

Just letting you know actual Leafs fans are not concerned about Dubas or the Penguins in the slightest. If you get the impression that they do, you're probably just reading or conversing with a handful of nut jobs.

I don't know how much is really Dubas' fault in Pittsburgh. It's clear the directive from ownership was to compete not rebuild. So he's trying (unsuccessfully) to follow that directive.

As for his time in Toronto, he built a strong team and added pieces that just didn't work from them Foligno, Brodie, etc. But again, it's clear he thought they needed to break up the core and the Leafs got rid of him. Leafs still pushing the same core for another couple of seasons and expecting different results.

First time I've heard of this. I heard a different story about why the Leafs got rid of him.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

He inherited

Kadri 4x4.5M

Matthews + Nylander + Marner on ELCs

I believe Rielly was at 4.5M at that time too

Signed old man Marleau, then attached a 1st to dump him (Seth Jarvis was the pick)

Had the Konecny draft pick in 2015, so many elite options. Traded back for Dermott

Traded Kadri for Kerfoot + Barrie, literally might be the worst trade in franchise history

I liked the Muzzin acquisition and Knies pick, but overall he was dog shit and has continued to do the same in Pittsburgh.

Forgot LOL signed Tavares for 11M, when we had Matthews as the 1C + Kadri as the 2C on a steal of a contract, when the defence needed work.

Just saying the Leafs have made worse trades than Kadri to the Avs

 

[joestevens29]

Not as bad as on the main board here.

Leafs fans don't care about Dubas, he's someone elses problem now.

If there's people talking about him on the Leafs board it's likely that 1% delusional Leafs fan that spends all day on there, or a troll posing as a Leafs fan, which is also a thing.

Just letting you know actual Leafs fans are not concerned about Dubas or the Penguins in the slightest. If you get the impression that they do, you're probably just reading or conversing with a handful of nut jobs.



First time I've heard of this. I heard a different story about why the Leafs got rid of him.

You seem to care

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Hextall and Dubas back to back really put the nail in the coffin for this era. Hextall literally giving away Marino and Matheson was the reason Dubas felt he needed to get Karlsson. He's improved the prospect pool but way too many misses to hits so far for his moves.

 

[dirtydanglez]

i knew the magic spell would wear off after he got out of toronto. i never understood the admiration he received

 

[Leafs87]

Pretty sure most Leafs fans wanted him gone a few years before he did go. That being said, his signings are as you mentioned shit for the most part but his trades were actually a pretty okay

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And yet it's not Leafs fans talking about how Leafs fans feel about Dubas.

I don't give the slightest about how Dubas is doing in Pitts. I kinda feel like he was brought in to be the inevitable fall guy when things start going bad and Crosby and Malkin retire.

Pens fans have seen a lot of success and well Dubas seems like the perfect guy to blame when a rebuild is needed.

The issue with the Leafs is they let a dipshit like Shanahan have a ton of power and say and when he intefers with a job he hired someone to do, it's odd to entirely blame the other bloke.

Did Dubas did some dumb shit in Toronto? Sure. Every single gm in the history of this sport have. But to act as if he's done jack shit for good is just full on nonsense. Also if you've noticed, quite literally any Penguins move that has a thread on the main board is bombarded with Dubas hate by a lot of Leafs fans. Not all, a lot of. It just derails any convo about those moves and especially when it's ignored how much of a complete moron Mike Sullivan is. He's routinely ruined players and the Pens are on their 3rd GM.

Spoiler alert - That's a coach problem that is empowered by a moron in the Pens ownership. It's literally the dumbest situation in the league and it's more than likely why NO ONE wanted the Pens GM job. NHL execs talk. They are aware of Sullivan having a ton of day with ownership backing. No coach in this league has that much power except for that idiot.

NHL execs also know he's had JR quit, Allvin was more than happy to leave when he was called by JR and Hextall had a media hit job by dipshits that make Steve Simmons look competent just to protect Sullivan.

Could Dubas' moves suck? Who the f*** knows. Sullivan has made moves 2 other GM's made look far worse, kind of hard to judge his moves under that microscope. He's drafted pretty decent so far for the Pens. That's about all we can really comment on as Pens fans. The rest has so much of that Boston dipshit Sullivan's finger prints on why it sucks it's hard to really say how much it's the players that Dubas brought in.

Because everyone but Geno and Blomqvist suck on this team. Crosby is a garbage player right now, just absolute trash. Worse than Malkin ever was last season. To see that and the coach do nothing but force the same shit, yeah...

And again, you want to fault Dubas for not forcing the ownership to let him fire a coach? He's literally said the same Pens media prepared shit about Sullivan that JR, Burke, and Hextall had to say. It's more than likely both Gm's wanted to fire Sullivan.

Sullivan went over Hextall and Burke's heads to negotiate with the owners directly. When was the last time you heard that in the league. Owners might push to fire a coach or the Brindy situation where the owner is an idiot but then let's his GM do the work anyway, but the Pens are a f***ing embarrassment of a franchise with this ownership.

But acting like he went all rogue under a control freak like Shanahan, lol.

 

[Apex Predator]

Not as bad as on the main board here.

Leafs fans don't care about Dubas, he's someone elses problem now.

If there's people talking about him on the Leafs board it's likely that 1% delusional Leafs fan that spends all day on there, or a troll posing as a Leafs fan, which is also a thing.

Just letting you know actual Leafs fans are not concerned about Dubas or the Penguins in the slightest. If you get the impression that they do, you're probably just reading or conversing with a handful of nut jobs.

My friends and I don’t talk about Dubas. Average fans that aren’t on message boards don’t care. I do think some are trolls but others are delusional and obsessed with him. There’s the same 2 posters on the leafs board that still come to his defense and try to hash anything he didn’t do.

 

[hamzarocks]

The issue with the Leafs is they let a dipshit like Shanahan have a ton of power and say and when he intefers with a job he hired someone to do, it's odd to entirely blame the other bloke.

Did Dubas did some dumb shit in Toronto? Sure. Every single gm in the history of this sport have. But to act as if he's done jack shit for good is just full on nonsense. Also if you've noticed, quite literally any Penguins move that has a thread on the main board is bombarded with Dubas hate by a lot of Leafs fans. Not all, a lot of. It just derails any convo about those moves and especially when it's ignored how much of a complete moron Mike Sullivan is. He's routinely ruined players and the Pens are on their 3rd GM.

Spoiler alert - That's a coach problem that is empowered by a moron in the Pens ownership. It's literally the dumbest situation in the league and it's more than likely why NO ONE wanted the Pens GM job. NHL execs talk. They are aware of Sullivan having a ton of day with ownership backing. No coach in this league has that much power except for that idiot.

NHL execs also know he's had JR quit, Allvin was more than happy to leave when he was called by JR and Hextall had a media hit job by dipshits that make Steve Simmons look competent just to protect Sullivan.

Could Dubas' moves suck? Who the f*** knows. Sullivan has made moves 2 other GM's made look far worse, kind of hard to judge his moves under that microscope. He's drafted pretty decent so far for the Pens. That's about all we can really comment on as Pens fans. The rest has so much of that Boston dipshit Sullivan's finger prints on why it sucks it's hard to really say how much it's the players that Dubas brought in.

Because everyone but Geno and Blomqvist suck on this team. Crosby is a garbage player right now, just absolute trash. Worse than Malkin ever was last season. To see that and the coach do nothing but force the same shit, yeah...

And again, you want to fault Dubas for not forcing the ownership to let him fire a coach? He's literally said the same Pens media prepared shit about Sullivan that JR, Burke, and Hextall had to say. It's more than likely both Gm's wanted to fire Sullivan.

Sullivan went over Hextall and Burke's heads to negotiate with the owners directly. When was the last time you heard that in the league. Owners might push to fire a coach or the Brindy situation where the owner is an idiot but then let's his GM do the work anyway, but the Pens are a f***ing embarrassment of a franchise with this ownership.

But acting like he went all rogue under a control freak like Shanahan, lol.

There was no inteference from Shanahan for Dubas.

That was a media piece the loser put out once he was failing and let go.

Dubas ego cost him his job with the leafs. He went behind Shanahan back and wanted a better offer then what they had discussed (crazy MLSE was keeping Dubas and Shanahan after 2023 failure but thats another story). He wanted to be President of the leafa after f***ing us over in his half decade reign of terro as GM.

Dubas sucked then, sucks now and will suck into the future.

He makes good excuses but his failures are all his own. He had full autonomy on the leafs for 5 years and had no concept of being able to build a team for more than 1 year outlook.

 

[Conbon]

He's a politician that figured out that there are a lot of dummies out there that are in love with the idea of an "expert". His data analysis and science that you're too dumb to comprehend gives him a greater understanding.

Nevermind 100+ of history and reality. He's smarter than that. That's why despite EVERYTHING pointing to the contrary, some folks will still glorify him. Of course, the lack of results is just bad luck. All of his deals make sense they just never work because of reasons and stuff.

Best description of Dubas I've ever read. Thank you for perfectly wording what I've been struggling to say.

 

[dalewood12]

As for the Karlsson deal, it was similar to bringing in Tavares to Toronto. The Pens didn't need an offense-minded RD but had holes elsewhere. Toronto didn't need a 2C but the blueline needed work. In either case he made a major move and allocated precious cap space to an area in the roster that it wasn't required.

I think you nailed it. Dubas always has his eyes on the shiny object. In both cases they were completely unnecessary.

 

[Leafshater67]

If you go to the Leafs board, there is not one single discussion on Kyle Dubas.

We don't care about that dude anymore. Let him be the fall guy in Pittsburgh, don't care!

No but our team sucks because of the deals he’s made. I’m still in shock he squandered away his power with RFA rights to get totally cucked by agents. The ripple effects of that will haunt the leafs for an entire generation.

Plus his constant going after the shiny new thing with no regard to proper team construction then should have been a sign. He’s still doing it. He has no clue about the intangibles it takes to get a team to the cup - he’s just like a moth to flame and wants the shiny new thing every time. And he’s bad at it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No but our team sucks because of the deals he’s made. I’m still in shock he squandered away his power with RFA rights to get totally cucked by agents. The ripple effects of that will haunt the leafs for an entire generation.

Plus his constant going after the shiny new thing with no regard to proper team construction then should have been a sign. He’s still doing it. He has no clue about the intangibles it takes to get a team to the cup - he’s just like a moth to flame and wants the shiny new thing every time. And he’s bad at it.

Both Matthews and Nylander are on new deals that Dubas did not sign the Leafs to, and it seems like Treliving is also going to extend Marner to an overpriced contract.

 

[shello]

Coaches can't waive players nor do they decide who's on the 23 man roster. Gm's do

You’d be surprised

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

There’s not a specific thread about Dubas but threads turn into something related to Dubas.

Not really.

You seem to care

I logged in to read some general hockey stuff, and this endless thread about Dubas is going on, and they keep talking about Leafs fans.

I like hockey, I like the Leafs, I don't care about Dubas or the Penguins so keep it on the Pens board? (that's how it usually goes right?)

Why does anyone care about Dubas?