When are we going to be honest with ourselves about how bad Kyle Dubas is?

[Apex Predator]

Pens have only gotten worse since hes got there but hes a smooth talker so some pens fans will still be believers.

There are leaf fans who are still believers.

 

[NinjaKick]

The thing with Karlsson is he only comes close to being worth any amount of money if you run your entire offence through him and let him disregard all defensive responsibility, to the detriment of your own team like the Sharks did. No contender is going to do that, and I as a result I doubt he'd be all that valuable even at 50%

What is this based on? The Penguins didn't do that with him last year and he had a good season. Not $10 million good, but good season.

Karlsson put up 56 points in 82 games and ended a +4 last year. I figure almost every contender would love that if they were only on the hook for $5 million as a rental for him.

based on going from 101 points to 56 points maybe? you kinda answered your own question lol

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

After some serious come-to-jesus soul searching, I am finally ready to admit that Dubas is indeed garbanzo beans. It has taken an arduous road of introspection to reach this point.

 

[ijuka]

Karlsson had just won the freaking Norris trophy and they got him without giving up a ton.

It was a worthwhile risk to take, their core group is just too old and Karlsson I think has a weird thing about not being the absolute alpha on the back end (seemed like in San Jose he only really took off once Burns left).

Karlsson is definitely not an easy player to work with, but if you do decide to work with him, you should accomodate him. He's not doing you any good if you make him be a 50 point generic #2 defenseman. He's not good at that. He needs a free reign and complete freedom. Can't give it to him? Don't trade for him!

If Dubas was going to trade for Karlsson, he needed to clarify this with Sullivan, or fire Sullivan. Karlsson can be very effective, but ONLY if you let him do what he wants, and deal with the repercussions. Otherwise, he's not worth it. He's not going to reinvent himself at his age.

Karlsson is the ultimate "orchid" type player. Either he's amazing, or he's absolutely awful. He requires the right environment.

 

[BB88]

Karlsson had just won the freaking Norris trophy and they got him without giving up a ton.

It was a worthwhile risk to take, their core group is just too old and Karlsson I think has a weird thing about not being the absolute alpha on the back end (seemed like in San Jose he only really took off once Burns left).

Everyone knew that move wasn’t going to be enough to make them competitive and just created a 10 years of darkness future for them

They had nothing in the prospect pool, refused to retool it and made an all in move that was never going to be enough

So yeah great vision and congrats for Karlsson winning the Norris!

 

[sena]

based on going from 101 points to 56 points maybe? you kinda answered your own question lol

That is his point production when he plays D. to impress Sid. The guy has always been a high event tire fire when producing points.

 

[John Price]

he was heavily overrated in toronto and not faring much better in pittsburgh. Pitt fans, do you miss guentzel? What was the rationale behind trading a rising young star?

 

[Hierso]

Kyle Dubas has been coasting on Theo Epstein vibes since the mid 2010s while building up his NHL programs under the guise of progressive and analytics... which basically is one splashy and ill fitting superstar per tenure followed by little timid nibbles at the roster, going cheap on defense and moneyball cheap in net. Consistently overpays in the trade market, makes mistakes he needs to cover up with draft capital, makes big headed convoluted transactions that look like parlay bets but miss actual hockey intuition, talks about building rosters like he's "betting," talks up a big loyalty game but good luck to you if you don't come from his inner circle and or Soo entourage.

Dubas worst weakness was getting too chummy with his players. It's a good thing to have the trust of the players but at the end of the day i kinda feel like he didn't make the right moves as a GM because he didn't want to lose his friends in a hockey trade.

 

[avsfan9]

But… at the time fans were claiming Erik Karlsson was Bobby Orr reincarnate and he was greater than mcjesus himself…..

 

[hurdemz]

really is mind boggling isn’t it. I mean what moron would trade all his grit away for the smallest softest players and think that’s a good idea in a contact sport! And when things didn’t work, he doubled, tripled and quadrupled down. I hate the excuse “well we didn’t see covid happening”. Do you think the millions of entrepreneurs world wide through their arms up and called it a day cause covid stopped their business in their tracks? No. They pivoted, they got creative and turned lemons into lemonade. When covid and a flat cap came, after several failures with the core 4, maybe trade one of your $11 million players and fill out the team better instead of throwing up your hands “we couldn’t do anything cause of covid”. What a waste of an era and shanahan will go down as the worse president in team history and dubas worse gm in team history.

No, no no. That honor goes to Harold Ballard/ John Ferguson Jr.

 

[Bouboumaster]

I think he's good at talent scouting, ok at drafting and terrible at Contract negociations

 

[Duffy13]

he was heavily overrated in toronto and not faring much better in pittsburgh. Pitt fans, do you miss guentzel? What was the rationale behind trading a rising young star?

Guentzal is a 30 year old who wanted to test free agency, looking to maximize as much money with as much term as he could get. Because he wouldn't commit to signing before free agency, and, in order to not lose him for nothing, he was traded.

Do I miss Guentzal, no, I appreciate everything he has done for this team and I wish him nothing but success, but he wasn't signing here so, good luck and best wishes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

based on going from 101 points to 56 points maybe? you kinda answered your own question lol

To say Karlsson wasn’t a good player or wasn’t worth any money because he “only” put up 56 points last year is stupid.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

He inherited a team on the rise and they plateaued. He now inherited a team on the decline and they’re declining.

As such, there is not a single metric out there that makes Dubas a competent GM. All signs point to him being fired within three seasons, unless FSG trusts him to get proper returns for when Crosby, Malkin, and Letang request to be traded. It would be folly to allow Dubas to remain and use the freed-up cap space to his liking.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

There are leaf fans who are still believers.

Those must be really stupid Leafs fans because Dubas isn't our GM anymore.

Pretty sure 99% of Leafs fans have moved on.