Whats wrong with Russia !!!

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Let's try to keep this in perspective.

Since 2008, Russia has four golds and two silvers at the WHC.

If there's something "wrong" with Russia in that they got beat by a team that was better than them, well then there's something wrong with every country that's not Canada.
 
Let's try to keep this in perspective.

Since 2008, Russia has four golds and two silvers at the WHC.

If there's something "wrong" with Russia in that they got beat by a team that was better than them, well then there's something wrong with every country that's not Canada.

No team was beating canada with their team.
and lets be honest if canada lost any game they wouldve been a failure.
 
Let's try to keep this in perspective.

Since 2008, Russia has four golds and two silvers at the WHC.

If there's something "wrong" with Russia in that they got beat by a team that was better than them, well then there's something wrong with every country that's not Canada.

With all due respect to the other nations, I hold Canada and Russia to a greater standard, owing to their unique and storied histories. Like I said, the worry comes not from their recent WHC performances, which, as you mentioned, have been good since 2008. The worry should come from the fact that the Russians have buckled a few times now when faced with Canada's top talent executing their post-2009 strategy. Severe problems with Russia's defense have been exposed and no simple solution appears available.
 

Russia is a proud hockey country. I'm sure there are plenty of good Russian coaches.

I'm a little surprised by the reaction to Russia losing this one game. One game means nothing. Russia's primary issue is a lack of quality defencemen, which was obvious well before this tournament even started. That would be true whether they lost to Canada 6 - 1 or beat Canada 10 - 0.
 
Russia lags well behind Canada, U.S. Sweden and Finland in the development of defencemen. That's its biggest problem. Coaching is also painfully steadfast in their refusal to adapt to anything that actually happens in a game.

You can look at yesterday's embarrassment in two ways:

1) Anecdotally, this was a weak team in comparison to last year's team, mainly because Russia just had terrible luck with injuries. Some years are lucky, and others are not. On the one hand there were the guys from the NHL - Datsyuk, Yakupov, and Nichushkin who would have been better than players who were out there had they not been injured. From the KHL, there were several forwards from CSKA and other teams who have been better than Tikhonov, Anisimov, Shirokov and so on, most notably Radulov, who was the 2nd best forward in Sochi, right behind Datsyuk. On defense, there was Zaitsev, Denisov, Biryukov, and Medvedev who would have been on the blue line if they had not been injured. I'm not suggesting that we would have won, but we probably would have had a better showing with those guys on the ice.

2) Even though significant upgrades have been made in the last few years, Russia still lags behind the countries you mentioned, particularly Canada, Sweden and Finland, in youth development. To put it succinctly, Russians haven't cared enough to make the efforts and sacrifices that would be necessary to have a modern hockey development program. The Government, through the RHF, has mandated some upgrades, but those are always deflected by corrupt local officials, and there is no evidence of support in local communities and neighborhoods, as you have in other countries. There are a few small islands of hockey youth development excellence in the vast sea of indifference, such as Traktor in Chelyabinsk, but mostly dormancy.

While the Soviets were once the personification of skill, ability, conditioning and team play, today's Russian teams are almost the exact opposite. The only notable players are the genetic anomalies, like Malkin and Ovechkin, who excel based on sheer physical talent. Yes, the defensemen are disgraceful, but the situation with forwards is nearly as bad. A lot of it can be legitimately blamed on the fact that hockey in Russia is an "export sport." Its not for the Russian people, only for the Calgary oil men who reap the benefit of the export crop of hockey players. That works in Finland, but not in Russia.

After saying all that, it is possible, with the advent of the KHL and MHL, that the wheels have been set in motion for significant growth in the quantity and quality of hockey development that could put Russia in a competitive situation within the next 5 years. On the RHF website, it noted that President Putin has "requested" that the RHF put together a program to make Russia a legitimate contender for Gold at the 2022 Olympics. If the resources, commitment and effort was harnessed for such a project, the situation could dramatically change in a fairly short time, if not by 2022.
 
Russia cares about hockey a ton.

It isn't a matter of "not caring" lol

They spent a ton of money to win Gold at home in the Olympics, they admitted as much.
 
You can look at yesterday's embarrassment in two ways:

1) Anecdotally, this was a weak team in comparison to last year's team, mainly because Russia just had terrible luck with injuries. Some years are lucky, and others are not. On the one hand there were the guys from the NHL - Datsyuk, Yakupov, and Nichushkin who would have been better than players who were out there had they not been injured. From the KHL, there were several forwards from CSKA and other teams who have been better than Tikhonov, Anisimov, Shirokov and so on, most notably Radulov, who was the 2nd best forward in Sochi, right behind Datsyuk. On defense, there was Zaitsev, Denisov, Biryukov, and Medvedev who would have been on the blue line if they had not been injured. I'm not suggesting that we would have won, but we probably would have had a better showing with those guys on the ice.

2) Even though significant upgrades have been made in the last few years, Russia still lags behind the countries you mentioned, particularly Canada, Sweden and Finland, in youth development. To put it succinctly, Russians haven't cared enough to make the efforts and sacrifices that would be necessary to have a modern hockey development program. The Government, through the RHF, has mandated some upgrades, but those are always deflected by corrupt local officials, and there is no evidence of support in local communities and neighborhoods, as you have in other countries. There are a few small islands of hockey youth development excellence in the vast sea of indifference, such as Traktor in Chelyabinsk, but mostly dormancy.

While the Soviets were once the personification of skill, ability, conditioning and team play, today's Russian teams are almost the exact opposite. The only notable players are the genetic anomalies, like Malkin and Ovechkin, who excel based on sheer physical talent. Yes, the defensemen are disgraceful, but the situation with forwards is nearly as bad. A lot of it can be legitimately blamed on the fact that hockey in Russia is an "export sport." Its not for the Russian people, only for the Calgary oil men who reap the benefit of the export crop of hockey players. That works in Finland, but not in Russia.

After saying all that, it is possible, with the advent of the KHL and MHL, that the wheels have been set in motion for significant growth in the quantity and quality of hockey development that could put Russia in a competitive situation within the next 5 years. On the RHF website, it noted that President Putin has "requested" that the RHF put together a program to make Russia a legitimate contender for Gold at the 2022 Olympics. If the resources, commitment and effort was harnessed for such a project, the situation could dramatically change in a fairly short time, if not by 2022.

this is very exciting to read as a Canadian. I love the Russia Canada games. Canada USA is ok but it's Russia Canada that i look forward to EVERY tourny.
 
Many of their top players are weak mentally & easily broken.

They play more as individuals rather than a team.

They lack heart & passion.
 
Many of their top players are weak mentally & easily broken.

They play more as individuals rather than a team.

They lack heart & passion.

I wouldn't say they lack heart and passion. Russian players love to win they just really embarrass themselves when they lose. Probably the worse losers I've seen. They showed their true character like yesterday. It's not all Russians but most of them, good on Ovechkin, Malkin for staying.
 
Let's try to keep this in perspective.

Since 2008, Russia has four golds and two silvers at the WHC.

If there's something "wrong" with Russia in that they got beat by a team that was better than them, well then there's something wrong with every country that's not Canada.

The issue I'd have if I was Russia is their total lack of results at the Olympics which is a real best on best tournament. They failed in an epic way at home in Sochi, got annihilated in the QF's by us in 2010 and they failed to medal in 2006.
 
Let's try to keep this in perspective.

Since 2008, Russia has four golds and two silvers at the WHC.

If there's something "wrong" with Russia in that they got beat by a team that was better than them, well then there's something wrong with every country that's not Canada.

The issue I'd have with Russia is their complete lack of results at the Olympics which is the true best on best tournament. They failed epically at home in Sochi, got annihilated by us in 2010, and failed to medal in 2006.
 
Russia cares about hockey a ton.

It isn't a matter of "not caring" lol

They spent a ton of money to win Gold at home in the Olympics, they admitted as much.

You're talking about a politician writing a check, as opposed to decades of planning and work taking place at the neighborhood level throughout the country. Not a good analogy!
 
Well i just wrote a long post and then lost is...so i will make this a short one.

What the **** is wrong with Russia ??
" We did not play with passion and was not motivated " said Znarok....

How can this happen (and it has happen before..)
I just dont get it..with all this talent...its a shame it really is....

Its not the loosing but how they loose...


A Canadian or a Swedish Coach? I think they have to start to think different regarding the NT.

It would be interesting to know what russian guys here at the forum think..what does the media say? How do they resolve this..

I am so sad..you coud sense it from the second periode that the were going to loose...its like they dont care somtimes...of 10 games only one good periode the first against Sweden..other than that this was indeed a very very bad tournament from Russia...

Didn't read thru any of the rest of thread, but doubtless MANY others have already said this..

Q: What's wrong with Russia? A:= Elementary: RUSSIA HAS NO PLAN B!!!

U can't always score goals off the rush. You can’t keep trying to beat guys wide and then cut quickly to the middle. NEWSFLASH RUSSKIES: Our Boyz have seen this movie before! Sometimes when ur up against a faster team, whose forwards are back checking like demons and whose D men are aggressive and taking away ur time and space, cause they know their mates have their backs...you’ve got to add a bit ( A BIT ) of variety to ur repertoire. U can’t keep bashing ur head against the same brick wall!

Seriously, I’ve said this for years ( it’s hockey 101! ) every time I do, Russian Hockey purists act like I just swore in church.

Add just a little, just a little dump and chase to your game. Plant a seed of doubt in the Dman’s mind, so he hesitates , as ur entering the zone, just for a fraction of a second, cause that’s all it takes! A bit of dump and chase will make your more aesthetically pleasing rushes MORE effective.

Sometimes u gotta score greasy goals. dump and chase, get that old cycle game going down low, drive the net, crash boom bang, score on the rebound, off a skate, who the *&%! cares how they go in.?. ( warning cliche’s incoming ) U don’t get extra credit for style points Ruskies. They ALL Count !They don’t ask how, just how many?

****

I had similar conversations with Swedes after the SLC Belarus fiasco. I said, you don’t need to scrap the Torpedo, keep it, it’s beautiful! Just add a bit of dump and chase to ur repertoire. To their credit, many Swedes saw the wisdom of what I was saying.

Swedes ( and other Euros ) learn from their mistakes. Russians Don’t ( See Russia has NO Plan B! )

***

I know, I know...Russia has problems on D...Ok but they’re still plenty serviceable, when u’ve got all ur best available...Look, the Yanks put together a team with college boyz and bailing wire and they did fine...Team D is mainly down to good coaching and a TEAM ( be they superstars or journeymen ) willing to put their egos aside, and buy into what the coach is preaching..

Russia’s Team D is totally fixable!

& Russian forwards ARE BEAUTIFUL...

The Big Red Machine isn’t ready for the scrap heap.... FAR FROM IT...It just needs a bit of a tune up...It just needs a bit, A BIT, of tweaking...
 
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What the **** is wrong with Russia ??

Would you please have a look at the roster.

How can this happen (and it has happen before..)
I just dont get it..with all this talent...its a shame it really is....

Which talent? Have you ever heard the saying that the defence wins you games/cups/championships? It is true. What did you expect of the russian C/D defence roster? They were lucky to get this far. No need to get upset over it.

A Canadian or a Swedish Coach? I think they have to start to think different regarding the NT.

Why do we need a guy who has no idea about russian hockey?

It would be interesting to know what russian guys here at the forum think..what does the media say? How do they resolve this..

There is nothing to "resolve". Just a simple recipe. We pray to the hockey god so our defencemen are healthy and available next time. It's no secret we don't have great depth on D. Our second and third choice defencemen are just bad.

Again, there is NOTHING to resolve here. Nothing extraordinary happened. It's not the end of the world, it's not a debacle like some(who don't know hockey) say. This team was lucky to get silver. The stars on the offence are still worth something obviously.
 
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The issue I'd have if I was Russia is their total lack of results at the Olympics which is a real best on best tournament. They failed in an epic way at home in Sochi, got annihilated in the QF's by us in 2010 and they failed to medal in 2006.

If you genuinely think that Russia had the best players in 2006, 2010 and 2014, then you would be correct in thinking that Russia should be concerned at not having achieved the "Golden" result. Is that what you think?
 
Well, it's no different than their behavior in general. Everywhere they try to jump the queue, demand extra service, treat others badly, force their opinion. They're acting like they are most influental superpower-country in the world, while there's still millions of people without in-house toilets, millions of children living homeless on the streets, questionable justice system leading by a dictator etc. In reality Russia is just almost a third world country with lots of guns. But they have a thought of themselves being an empire and pride and attitude to match :shakehead :help: :shakehead

What's wrong with Russia?

Total disrespect towards others.

Well, I mean, your generalization pretty much did the same thing.

My friend's wife is from Ukraine and moved here a couple years ago. Since then, her city has been in constant conflict due to clashes between protestors as well has multiple bombings which have directly affected her family. She has basically every right to hate Russia at this point. Yet, she understands that it is a massive country in which generalizations do no good and while she hates those who have ravaged her city, she still does not hate Russians as a whole due to this particular situation.
 
I just made an assumption. Do not tell me that this assumption of a kind of fantasy. Many examples of it in world sports.

Our players are experienced, I mean they had big victories as well as bitter defeats. But for some reason they probably 1st time in career did what they did yesterday. Malkin, Ovechkin and Kulemin stayed? Ofc they can swallow dirt... they have career in NHL, if they have left I imagine how hard they would be mixed with dirt by ur mass media.


[mod]

But okay, Russia did not listen Canadas athemn 1st time ever? Why to find reasons? Let's better punish Russia for that.... hmm, maybe by canceling next WC in Russia? Would be perfect!
 
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Should get Putin to play...He scored 8 goals in an exhibition game recently, playing against former NHL stars... He's gotta be pretty good.;)
 
[mod]


But okay, Russia did not listen Canadas athemn 1st time ever? Why to find reasons? Let's better punish Russia for that.... hmm, maybe by canceling next WC in Russia? Would be perfect!

And did Canada exactly start to insult Russia during their celebration? High likelihood that it never even came close to happening. So why make the assumption?

What some of the Russian players did was disrespectful and unprofessional, that's a fact. Kudos to those that stayed though.
 
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But okay, Russia did not listen Canadas athemn 1st time ever? Why to find reasons? Let's better punish Russia for that.... hmm, maybe by canceling next WC in Russia? Would be perfect!



Some people would enjoy that more than the Victory itself :laugh:
 
Malkin showed some passion out there. That hit after the period, Seguin giving it to him from the bench and still when it was all said and done he stayed till the end. Making excuses for the Russians that left is a joke and you'd be hard pressed to find another nation do that in this tourney.
 
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