WJC: What's right with USA?

[KillerMillerTime]

For sure each country has their up years, and their down years. The US team was the favorite going into the tournament, and they made good on that. They had the best forward in the upcoming draft, in addition to two other high-end players in Leonard, and Perrault. They had the best defenseman in the tournament in Buium. It's hard to be the actual best team year-in-year-out. Obviously CAN put together the team that they felt gave them the best chance to win, and they failed. I think they had a team that was good enough to win, but they obviously didn't, and they deserve criticism for that. I don't really think it's a codemnation on the quality of CAN hockey.

All that being said, I don't think anyone actually believes that USA would have been the favorites if both nations had all their NHL players. That certainly doesn't mean they would be guaranteed to win, but losing your three best players to the NHL is obviously going to harm your chances. If USA lost their two best forwards, I assume that fans would think that matters. It's not an excuse for the tournament, it happens to every nation that has players good enough to play in the NHL in their teen years.

USA hockey is in a great place. They produce elite NHL talent with extreme regularity, and have a team that goes toe-to-toe with CAN in best-on-best at all levels. They won't win gold every year, and neither will CAN. They have been arguably the best team at the WJC since 2010.

Top 3 teams by medal count since 2010:

USA: 6 Gold, 1 Silver, 4 Bronze, 11 medals, 16 appearances
CAN: 5 Gold, 4 Silver, 1 Bronze, 10 medals, 16 appearances
RUS: 1 Gold, 4 Silver, 4 Bronze, 9 medals, 12 appearances

I think it's hard to deny that USA has had more success at the WJC than CAN over the last 16 seasons, but I don't think that necessarily means that USA is producing more talent.

Next year is a big year for CAN, and they probably need to win the event to quiet any questions.

For sure each country has their up years, and their down years. The US team was the favorite going into the tournament, and they made good on that. They had the best forward in the upcoming draft, in addition to two other high-end players in Leonard, and Perrault. They had the best defenseman in the tournament in Buium. It's hard to be the actual best team year-in-year-out. Obviously CAN put together the team that they felt gave them the best chance to win, and they failed. I think they had a team that was good enough to win, but they obviously didn't, and they deserve criticism for that. I don't really think it's a codemnation on the quality of CAN hockey.

All that being said, I don't think anyone actually believes that USA would have been the favorites if both nations had all their NHL players. That certainly doesn't mean they would be guaranteed to win, but losing your three best players to the NHL is obviously going to harm your chances. If USA lost their two best forwards, I assume that fans would think that matters. It's not an excuse for the tournament, it happens to every nation that has players good enough to play in the NHL in their teen years.

USA hockey is in a great place. They produce elite NHL talent with extreme regularity, and have a team that goes toe-to-toe with CAN in best-on-best at all levels. They won't win gold every year, and neither will CAN. They have been arguably the best team at the WJC since 2010.

Top 3 teams by medal count since 2010:

USA: 6 Gold, 1 Silver, 4 Bronze, 11 medals, 16 appearances
CAN: 5 Gold, 4 Silver, 1 Bronze, 10 medals, 16 appearances
RUS: 1 Gold, 4 Silver, 4 Bronze, 9 medals, 12 appearances

I think it's hard to deny that USA has had more success at the WJC than CAN over the last 16 seasons, but I don't think that necessarily means that USA is producing more talent.

Next year is a big year for CAN, and they probably need to win the event to quiet any questions.

I have never said the US is a stronger hockey country now as they aren't and for the foreseeable future won't be. My point is best on best, single elimination they can win
probably 30-40% of the time.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I think when it comes to the most talented players, there are going to be a lot of year to year differences.

This is absolutely true and as been for a long time. I have pointed out in the past the US talent born 1955-58, which would have corresponded with the 1976-77 NCAA season (year I graduated College) produced more talent than Sweden
and Czechoslovakia and if hockey infrastructure of today existed then, including NTDP, arguably The Soviets which had down years until 1958 DOB.

 

[MuckOG]

The only thing Canada has is the ability to legally purchase Cuban cigars. I’ll trade North Dakota to Canada for that.

Cuban cigars are overrated.

 

[miscs75]

Cuban cigars are overrated.

It’s moreso the inaccessibility of them which is why I want them as a cigar smoker. We’ll keep North Dakota and instead trade them Chicago style pizza for Cuban cigars.

 

[AmericanDream]

What's right with USA Hockey?

Skating.

It should be clear to all that has been the primary driver for the success of this country. Developing players that can consistently go north and south in waves making it a nightmare for defenses to keep up with.

This team made that obvious. It wasn't close to the most talented teams on paper we sent before, but it played a team game due to amazing coaching that focused on their strength: Skating.

It was never more apparent that was true then in overtime when Finland essentially was terrified to get caught deep and barely ever made a push knowing how fast the Americans were with all their lines.

I am not saying skating fast simply wins gold medals but year after year you see a majority of our top prospects as elite level skaters. This isn't by chance. It is on purpose.

The game has opened up since our truculence days we just seemed to have finally come to our senses faster than a few other countries have. Next years team will be a true test as clearly lacking talent compared to last 2 years but still plenty of burners to be on the roster.

 

[King'sPawn]

I think the NTDP plays a big part of it. A large pool of players spend so much time playing on the same team and with each other. It's easier to rebuild chemistry and re-learn a system (if need be). With short tournaments like this, getting everyone on board faster helps.

Canada has 60 major junior teams alone. And there's a wide margin in resources, talent, and style of play. They're closer to getting 20ish strangers playing different systems that have a steeper learning curve.

I think it's why they also dominate and play a lot better with a superstar, like Bedard/McDavid/etc on the team. They have a focal point of what they're going to do.

All respect to the Canadian players this year, but none of them are at that level at this time. While they all have very good skill, it's not enough to make up the chemistry and learning styles of the other teams.

Other nations, like Finland, Sweden, Czechia, etc don't have an NTDP team, but they have a smaller pool of teams where it's easier to identify a style that works for them.

I think they'd benefit from having a national team that plays against the three major junior leagues.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Territory. Like Guam, but with igloos and poutine.

You forgot Canadians get to games by canoe or dog sled, and Americans have worked their way up to using dial-up modems now.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

You forgot Canadians get to games by canoe or dog sled, and Americans have worked their way up to using dial-up modems now.

Seek therapy, soon.

 

[Jetcetera]

Partially luck

 

[Golden_Jet]

Seek therapy, soon.

Territory. Like Guam, but with igloos and poutine.

 

[IHaveNoCreativity]

They have a ton of people and a lot of them can afford the training and they have the facilities and they can attract great coaches.

I do think soccer will take over there long term from hockey, maybe other sports aswell. Hockey wise they won’t drop off too much but a tad down south.

 

[Wieters]

The population arguments don't hold any water.

For one, we can look at registered skaters and see that there is no advantage for the US vis-a-vis Canada.

But it also leaves out the which types of athletes are actually available from within each population. The US is not drawing its best athletes out of its large pool of people. If you are an elite athlete in the US, you are almost certainly choosing to play one of football/basketball/baseball. And if you don't choose one of the big three, you're as likely to choose track/soccer/lacrosse or any number of other sports as you are hockey. That is not the case in Canada, where many of the best Canadian athletes would choose to play hockey over any other sport. If Sidney Crosby was born in Alabama, he probably would have been a pitcher/shortstop and never touched a hockey stick.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The population arguments don't hold any water.

For one, we can look at registered skaters and see that there is no advantage for the US vis-a-vis Canada.

But it also leaves out the which types of athletes are actually available from within each population. The US is not drawing its best athletes out of its large pool of people. If you are an elite athlete in the US, you are almost certainly choosing to play one of football/basketball/baseball. And if you don't choose one of the big three, you're as likely to choose track/soccer/lacrosse or any number of other sports as you are hockey. That is not the case in Canada, where many of the best Canadian athletes would choose to play hockey over any other sport. If Sidney Crosby was born in Alabama, he probably would have been a pitcher/shortstop and never touched a hockey stick.

Stu Crosby

 

[Kiekura]

Canada has 1\10 the population of the US and approx same # players so since its
your national sport your getting better athletes that play.

That is not how it works though. You could earn so so so much more with baseball/NFL/NBA careers in US, but they choose hockey because they love that sport.

US has been producing TOP end talents long time now and has been hetting closer to Canada every year and it is not slowing down. And that is good thing for Hockey growth and popularity.

 

[Joe Zanussi]

The population arguments don't hold any water.

For one, we can look at registered skaters and see that there is no advantage for the US vis-a-vis Canada.

But it also leaves out the which types of athletes are actually available from within each population. The US is not drawing its best athletes out of its large pool of people. If you are an elite athlete in the US, you are almost certainly choosing to play one of football/basketball/baseball. And if you don't choose one of the big three, you're as likely to choose track/soccer/lacrosse or any number of other sports as you are hockey. That is not the case in Canada, where many of the best Canadian athletes would choose to play hockey over any other sport. If Sidney Crosby was born in Alabama, he probably would have been a pitcher/shortstop and never touched a hockey stick.

This. I’ve said for a long time that the American born with the most God-blessed hockey talent ever probably played football instead.

 

[ElLeetch]

It’s moreso the inaccessibility of them which is why I want them as a cigar smoker. We’ll keep North Dakota and instead trade them Chicago style pizza for Cuban cigars.

Canada can have that garbage for free. no need for anything in return.

 

[Byron Bitz]

There’s a lot of people in that country, with time more of those people have found a love for hockey and communities have built up more of a hockey culture.

 

[miscs75]

Canada can have that garbage for free. no need for anything in return.

That was just the first thing I I could think of. Toss in that sacreligious way of cutting a bagel that St Louis does. What else can we give Canada?

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Affluent suburbs near NHL Markets is where you'll get the most bang for buck. Basically every suburb town of a certain town having their own ice rink. Most of major metro areas in the U.S. is suburban and not really urban core (other than something NYC), and these are the people that have money, which hockey requires a lot of.

Canada has 2,860 indoor rice rinks, USA despite being a more populated country has 2,100 indoor ice rinks, and 10X as many outdoor rinks (climate will of course play a role there).

NY, PA, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, New England, Colorado, Utah, Pacific Northwest, DMV, these are pretty easy places where you could get a lot of theoretical growth in hockey besides the more obvious but less culturally popular and geographically inclined south

I would think there are plenty of burbs in places like Seattle, Chicago, Philly, Columbus where you could locate additional rinks to build up numbers. Even in hot beds in Greater Boston there are burbs that should have rinks that don't, like Wakefield, Winchester & Melrose (Hometown of Andy Brickley & Conor Sheary) which are in one of the 2 best Public HS Leagues in the state.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Complete mismatch?

Decided by a goal in OT?

Skill, speed and size. Tonight, the American defence was faster than the Finns forwards. It was a complete mismatch

 

[OilersFanatics505]

Complete mismatch?

Decided by a goal in OT?

Outside of Fins goalie how else would you describe the 2nd half of the game?

 

[Leafs87]

Canadas inability to bring the best team they have