What wrong with "Mitch'in" Marner?

[abo9]

Marner is not only a choker, he's got one of the worst drop in pts/game amongst stars in NHL history:

https://forums.hfboards.com/threads...ers-of-all-time.2965107/page-6#post-195222786

A leaf fan told me that Marner seems to overthink in the playoffs. That he seems to play safer than in the regular season, which translates to less points. He wasn't defending Marner, just pointing observations. But these observations describe... a choker.

In theory he could be "fixed", but it probably requires a change of scenery, or at least a coaching change. Someone needs to teach Marner to take risks when necessary - or at least to play his offensive game on all cylinders. That's a huge component of why he's paid >10M per year.

POs are about physicality. Oddly enough, I was looking forward to seeing how Drouin would do in the POs before he got injured because he upped his defensive game this year and would finish his checks. So players can change if they want to.

Haven't followed the whole chain of comments, but Drouin's playoff track record is pretty solid. Or at least, doesn't hint at him being a choker. I hope he comes back to play a few playoff games. He worked hard the last few years and I'm pretty sure he's a gamer.

 

[Master P]

Anytime someone brings up Marner I always think of this play.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

 

[abo9]

Ya funny how they single out Marner but no shade on Matthews Marner and Matthews both produce at the exact same rate in the playoffs, .87 PPG Nylander is even worse .80
when your team is built around those 3 players you would expect a lot more production from them . It's their core all of them are not good enough to lead a team to a championship the track record proves this

On of these isn't like the others. Nylander got noticeably better and since 2019-20 has been a 1.00 regular season pts/g player, 0.94 playoff pts/game player. He's been very clutch in this series (but can't do it all), and has been a solid playoff performer for a few years.

Even Crosby sees his pts/game drop in the playoffs, vs the regular season.

The problem with Matthews and Marner is that they experience some of the worst drop in production in the history of the league, when looking against regular season production.

Since breaking out with 94 pts in 2018-19, Marner has a 1.22 pts/game in the RS. 0.84 pts/per game in the playoffs. He goes from being a 100 pts to a 68 pts player.

Matthews goes from being a 101 pts player to a 80 pts player. But more importantly, his goal scoring goes from 57 goals/82 games in the RS to 35 goals/82 games in the playoffs.

The drops are way too massive. And Nylander ain't the problem.

If the Leafs are interested to win, Matthews and Marner need to go. And they need to let Tavares walk to FA. But it also comes with the problem that both Matthews and Tavares are their best 2 centers... so trading Marner for a package involving a young 2C is probably the best solution.

 

[thaman8765678]

You just simply can't win with players like Auston Matthew's. Your elite star player cannot turn into Ryan Reaves level skill in the post season.

 

[VainGretzky]

Since breaking out with 94 pts in 2018-19, Marner has a 1.22 pts/game in the RS. 0.84 pts/per game in the playoffs. He goes from being a 100 pts to a 68 pts player.

Matthews goes from being a 101 pts player to a 80 pts player. But more importantly, his goal scoring goes from 57 goals/82 games in the RS to 35 goals/82 games in the playoffs.

The drops are way too massive. And Nylander ain't the problem.

This is blatantly false Both Matthews and Marner are 71 point players in the playoffs Marner is a PPG last 3 playoffs lol so he has improved not declined

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Marner is not only a choker, he's got one of the worst drop in pts/game amongst stars in NHL history:

https://forums.hfboards.com/threads...ers-of-all-time.2965107/page-6#post-195222786

A leaf fan told me that Marner seems to overthink in the playoffs. That he seems to play safer than in the regular season, which translates to less points. He wasn't defending Marner, just pointing observations. But these observations describe... a choker.

In theory he could be "fixed", but it probably requires a change of scenery, or at least a coaching change. Someone needs to teach Marner to take risks when necessary - or at least to play his offensive game on all cylinders. That's a huge component of why he's paid >10M per year.



Haven't followed the whole chain of comments, but Drouin's playoff track record is pretty solid. Or at least, doesn't hint at him being a choker. I hope he comes back to play a few playoff games. He worked hard the last few years and I'm pretty sure he's a gamer.

Great anysis- it’s like he’s got the yips, but with hockey. Recall him getting like 3 delay of game penalties last playoffs, I believe- that’s such an odd issue to have, and screams to mental stuff beyond just “being soft.”

I mock the guy, but if he’s a decent dude I hope he figures it out. Agreed he needs a new voice/location. Idk, personally I needed to get yelled at sometimes, I needed to get pissed at the coach. Given the shit Babcock pulled I wonder if they’re almost too delicate with him now- no clue, but it’s weird how the same thing keeps happening and they just kinda ignore it.

 

[VainGretzky]

Great anysis- it’s like he’s got the yips, but with hockey. Recall him getting like 3 delay of game penalties last playoffs, I believe- that’s such an odd issue to have, and screams to mental stuff beyond just “being soft.”

I mock the guy, but if he’s a decent dude I hope he figures it out. Agreed he needs a new voice/location. Idk, personally I needed to get yelled at sometimes, I needed to get pissed at the coach. Given the shit Babcock pulled I wonder if they’re almost too delicate with him now- no clue, but it’s weird how the same thing keeps happening and they just kinda ignore it.

Love the cherry-picking lol he starts this right after the season Matthews had 2 pts in 7 playoff games Marner had 9 that season in 7 the lengths Leaf fans go to justify Mattthews hilarious he is just as bad as Marner posts season

 

[disgruntleddave]

Doesn't go to greasy areas, isn't willing to get close to anyone who may lay contact, isn't willing to shoot.

Remember, this is a guy who literally injured himself because he decided not to shoot on an open net. An injury which clearly impacted his skating through his return and into the playoffs. With how close the series was, a 5% healthier marner, with all his warts, could have been enough to be the difference. As could have one more pp goal, one more willy game, etc.

To his core, he doesn't play a man's game. That's what's wrong.

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

He seems like a perimeter player by nature. I don’t think he’s scared to take a hit or necessarily “scared” at all. His game is just to stay on the outside and do dekes and passes. It’s like he’s not programmed to change his game at all.

 

[SImpelton]

Matthews deserves heat.

69 goals, can't fight through a stomach bug and has an average game 7 once again

Why not start with the players who WERE healthy? This is like blaming Woll for getting hurt.

 

[Orfieus]

I think Marner to LA makes a lot of sense, but that's me

 

[DearDiary]

Scared Mitch used to block shots without covering his face

 

[thaman8765678]

I don't know why people keep bringing up the shift against Pastrnak. This isn't man to man defense like the NBA. You need your defenseman to cover him when he comes into the zone.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Marner is suffering from Johnny hockey syndrome.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Marner is just a really bad performer in critical games. Might be some underlying psych issue, not sure.

TBH, most of the Leafs have had a very bad track record in terms of stepping up in big games, Matthews definitely come to mind basically every year. I have never seen this guy consistently put together 3 or more good games in a series. A number of other leafs also are highly suspect over the years.

Probably some developmental problem across the organization, that has led to this general malaise characteristic of this franchise over more than half a century now. I can't even remember a time when the Leafs actually overachieved in the playoffs. Unless someone else can cite some example, it's probably sometime before 80% of us here were born.

 

[FerrisRox]

He seems like a perimeter player by nature. I don’t think he’s scared to take a hit or necessarily “scared” at all. His game is just to stay on the outside and do dekes and passes. It’s like he’s not programmed to change his game at all.

I absolutely think he's scared. Way too often he pulls up to avoid contact. I can't think of what reason there would be to do that other than that you are scared of contact. He clearly has no interest in winning a race for a loose puck if it means he might have to take a hit. Time and time again I've seen him pull up or even change routes in that situation.

If the issue isn't that he doesn't like to be hit, than I would love to know why the opponent wins so many uncontested puck battles against Marner.

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

I absolutely think he's scared. Way too often he pulls up to avoid contact. I can't think of what reason there would be to do that other than that you are scared of contact. He clearly has no interest in winning a race for a loose puck if it means he might have to take a hit. Time and time again I've seen him pull up or even change routes in that situation.

If the issue isn't that he doesn't like to be hit, than I would love to know why the opponent wins so many uncontested puck battles against Marner.

You may be right, I don’t watch the Leafs very often. I think he has relied on his stick handling and passing skills for so long that he just defaults to that. Could be fear I don’t know

 

[Petrus]

You may be right, I don’t watch the Leafs very often. I think he has relied on his stick handling and passing skills for so long that he just defaults to that. Could be fear I don’t know

This is an example of Marner scared of taking a hit and leading to breakaway for the Bruins.

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

This is an example of Marner scared of taking a hit and leading to breakaway for the Bruins.

Oh yeah can’t argue that one.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

2-0 without Matthews

1-4 with Matthews

Yet Marner will continue getting the blame. Leafs fans are hilarious.

Marner deserves the blame. He didn’t show up at all.

Matthews was really good before his health issues and won game two for the Leafs. Even in limited usage in game 7 he set up Nylander with a beautiful pass.

Don't be like that. You're leaving out that Matthews tried! The effort alone was totally worth a contract of $13.25 million per year.

Biff!

You’re back!

Ya funny how they single out Marner but no shade on Matthews Marner and Matthews both produce at the exact same rate in the playoffs, .87 PPG Nylander is even worse .80
when your team is built around those 3 players you would expect a lot more production from them . It's their core all of them are not good enough to lead a team to a championship the track record proves this

Marner is probably the worst big game player I’ve ever seen. His point production is absolutely abysmal in big games and I can’t remember him ever taking over a playoff game.

Matthews is nowhere near that bad. Health held him back this series but when he was healthy he played well. Completely different situation.

Absolutely.

Every year, Marner takes all the heat and Matthews slides under the radar. Sure, Mitch was bad. But Matthews once again, failed to put the team on his back and take over a series. He’s the highest paid player in the league, 69 regular season goals, and has never scored in a Game 7 with an 0-5 record in them.

No excuses, go out there and f***ing do something.

Matthews at least has an excuse. And he played well before the health issues cropped up. And still managed to contribute in game 7.

I’m by no means a Leaf fan and would happily pile on if it was warranted but it clearly isn’t here. This series would’ve been over in four if not for Matthews.

 

[thaman8765678]

Marner deserves the blame. He didn’t show up at all.

Matthews was really good before his health issues and won game two for the Leafs. Even in limited usage in game 7 he set up Nylander with a beautiful pass.

Biff!

You’re back!

Marner is probably the worst big game player I’ve ever seen. His point production is absolutely abysmal in big games and I can’t remember him ever taking over a playoff game.

Matthews is nowhere near that bad. Health held him back this series but when he was healthy he played well. Completely different situation.

Matthews at least has an excuse. And he played well before the health issues cropped up.

I’m by no means a Leaf fan and would happily pile on if it was warranted but it clear isn’t here. This series would’ve been over in four if not for Matthews.

Yes, the series would have been over in 4 if not for Matthews.

Because the Leafs would have won 4-0.

 

[Leafshater67]

Matthews at least has an excuse. And he played well before the health issues cropped up. And still managed to contribute in game 7.

Does he really? I mean, if it was the first year his play declined drastically in the playoffs sure but it’s not. This happens every year. He was solid in game 7 but he’s never strung together 3 or more good games in the playoffs. This isn’t a 2nd line centre either, he’s a 69 goal scoring, 13m franchise centre and in the playoffs, he drops off like clockwork.

If I’m late every day to work and then one day, I get in a fender bender on my way and it makes me late again, can I really excuse that? Nylander is the only core 4 guy who shows up in the playoffs.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

It been kinda obvious for a while now that you don´t build a playoff winner around Marner. The Leafs management still insist it works though.

 

[ItWasJustified]

I think Marner to LA makes a lot of sense, but that's me

What would the Kings give up that Toronto wants/needs? If the Leafs try to deal Marner they'll deal from a position of weakness and all the other 31 teams know they do. And wingers aren't exactly hot commodity in the NHL, and wingers who can't step up in the playoffs even less so.