What would happen if there is no OHL season? (Part 2)

[MatthewsMoustache]

You seem to be under some sort of illusion that the OHL's situation was somehow unique. But it wasn't. Every league faced barriers. But unlike the OHL, other leagues were able to continue to develop players either by playing games or practicing and scrimmaging. And many of these leagues have teams in Ontario, such as the AHL and GOJHL. My son who plays house league hockey, played about 10 games this year and had about the same number of practices.

So why did the OHL not play or even practice and scrimmage. They were too busy telling everyone that they can't play without fans, while the QMJHL was making plans to play without fans.

Here are some interesting quotes:

"Branch made it clear that options such as empty arenas cannot be a consideration for the Ontario Hockey League." - April 17, 2020 Source: Global News

"The bubble idea incorporated by the NHL and NBA is just too expensive, according to Gaetz, and playing in front of no fans wouldn’t be an option either." - August 12, 2020 Source: Guelph Mercury Tribune

Its hard to make plans to play during the pandemic when you are saying you can't even consider the possibility of playing without fans.

"MacLeod added that the OHL has not asked for any financial support from the provincial government during the prolonged stoppage in play. The Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, one of the OHL’s partner leagues in the Canadian Hockey League, has had to ask different levels of government for financial support." - October 7, 2020 Source - Global News

So while the QMJHL had already started playing games in empty arenas, the OHL hadn't even asked for financial support from the government yet. The OHL was so far behind because they held the assumption that nothing would happen until fans were allowed in the arena. But the other leagues were looking at how they could continue to develop players despite the pandemic and even without fans.

Otto, I understand you want to blame everyone else and think that the OHL was somehow in an unique situation. But the truth is the OHL's lack of planning and foresight costs the players a year of development.

As much as I do think the OHL could have done better, our government is very clearly to blame here. Similar to how everywhere else in the world is playing hockey, everywhere else in the world is in a far better place with COVID than we are because their governments listened to the medical experts and are now able to start getting back into a normal life with vaccines getting dished out

 

[OMG67]

There may have been some money available through various initiatives at the beginning, but it wasn't enough. The government may have made more money available at the time the scholarship money was finalized. I think it was fairly obvious by that time that the likelihood of a season getting off the ground was almost zero. That has been my feeling anyway looking at the forecast of the Health Table, which proved to be accurate once again. Kind of like offering me money but I have to go to the moon to pick it up. (I know that's obtuse)

Very possible, for sure. My only point was the budget was in place ready for distribution. As mentioned previously, it was more about whether it would have been enough. That, I don’t know. We also don’t know what would have been enough in the eyes of the owners to make it work. I think you are correct that the further things were shut down, the more motivated the Province was to subsidize because of the length of shutdown. Very possible.

I do feel they were serious about a bubble for a short period because it was financially viable with subsidies. My only real issue was they needed a plan that included a playoff and it didn’t seem like that was part of the plan. I know that point is moot now because it wouldn’t have happened regardless but making that a goal and working it into a plan would have been nice.

They really need to keep the conversations and negotiations going though and also include subsidies regardless. I don’t feel things will be back to normal for the regular start of the season this fall. Sure, they may be able to play but I highly doubt fans in seats is going to happen until January, at least not in any real meaningful way.

 

[OMG67]

You seem to be under some sort of illusion that the OHL's situation was somehow unique. But it wasn't. Every league faced barriers. But unlike the OHL, other leagues were able to continue to develop players either by playing games or practicing and scrimmaging. And many of these leagues have teams in Ontario, such as the AHL and GOJHL. My son who plays house league hockey, played about 10 games this year and had about the same number of practices.

So why did the OHL not play or even practice and scrimmage. They were too busy telling everyone that they can't play without fans, while the QMJHL was making plans to play without fans.

Here are some interesting quotes:

"Branch made it clear that options such as empty arenas cannot be a consideration for the Ontario Hockey League." - April 17, 2020 Source: Global News

"The bubble idea incorporated by the NHL and NBA is just too expensive, according to Gaetz, and playing in front of no fans wouldn’t be an option either." - August 12, 2020 Source: Guelph Mercury Tribune

Its hard to make plans to play during the pandemic when you are saying you can't even consider the possibility of playing without fans.

"MacLeod added that the OHL has not asked for any financial support from the provincial government during the prolonged stoppage in play. The Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, one of the OHL’s partner leagues in the Canadian Hockey League, has had to ask different levels of government for financial support." - October 7, 2020 Source - Global News

So while the QMJHL had already started playing games in empty arenas, the OHL hadn't even asked for financial support from the government yet. The OHL was so far behind because they held the assumption that nothing would happen until fans were allowed in the arena. But the other leagues were looking at how they could continue to develop players despite the pandemic and even without fans.

Otto, I understand you want to blame everyone else and think that the OHL was somehow in an unique situation. But the truth is the OHL's lack of planning and foresight costs the players a year of development.

In fairness, you did miss the quote regarding ZERO contact by Lisa McLeod back in September.

I firmly believe the league would have easily been able to start and play with zero contact, zero fans and about $1mil per team in financial support, similar to the QMJHL support. The players would also have been sequestered in their bedrooms at all times other than when eating and being in the washroom or at the rink. You cannot overlook that as part of the requirements set by the Provincial Government. There is no sense asking for $$$ when the parameters for return to play aren’t reasonable.

I also firmly believe the plan after that was a bubble but you cannot have a bubble with hub cities for 6 months. I believe the league anticipated a mid-February start after things cooled down post-Christmas. A 2 month bubble to play about 30 games plus extra time for a 3 round playoff seemed reasonable until everything went sideways in the GTA and full shutdown for extended periods.

The reason why you cannot compare the GOHL and AHL to OHL is the GOHAL has kids living at home so no need to quarantine in their rooms. The AHL are Adults and don’t need to live with billet families adding a significant variable the Province was not willing to accept. The Quebec Government was willing to allow status quo plus added measures that the Ontario Government was not allowing under any terms.

So, it really isn’t apples to apples. That said, I don’t disagree that they may have been able to do something and appeased the Government by playing shinny hockey 4 on 4 subsidized by the Provincial Government to the tune of $17mil but I don’t think the League anticipated they’d have so many issues getting a bubble together starting in mid-February. I also feel the US teams presented a significant problem and the League was unwilling to simply abandon them to figure something out on their own.

 

[AttackSound]

In fairness, you did miss the quote regarding ZERO contact by Lisa McLeod back in September.

I firmly believe the league would have easily been able to start and play with zero contact, zero fans and about $1mil per team in financial support, similar to the QMJHL support. The players would also have been sequestered in their bedrooms at all times other than when eating and being in the washroom or at the rink. You cannot overlook that as part of the requirements set by the Provincial Government. There is no sense asking for $$$ when the parameters for return to play aren’t reasonable.

I also firmly believe the plan after that was a bubble but you cannot have a bubble with hub cities for 6 months. I believe the league anticipated a mid-February start after things cooled down post-Christmas. A 2 month bubble to play about 30 games plus extra time for a 3 round playoff seemed reasonable until everything went sideways in the GTA and full shutdown for extended periods.

The reason why you cannot compare the GOHL and AHL to OHL is the GOHAL has kids living at home so no need to quarantine in their rooms. The AHL are Adults and don’t need to live with billet families adding a significant variable the Province was not willing to accept. The Quebec Government was willing to allow status quo plus added measures that the Ontario Government was not allowing under any terms.

So, it really isn’t apples to apples. That said, I don’t disagree that they may have been able to do something and appeased the Government by playing shinny hockey 4 on 4 subsidized by the Provincial Government to the tune of $17mil but I don’t think the League anticipated they’d have so many issues getting a bubble together starting in mid-February. I also feel the US teams presented a significant problem and the League was unwilling to simply abandon them to figure something out on their own.

No matter how we all want to spin this or how we see what the league did or didn't do this year the truth is that the OHL ran out of time to iron out all the issues needed to play even with government approval and safety protocols in place the inevitably of the OHL doing what it did.

Unfortunately the ones who get the short-end are the players who would've come into the league and the ones who would've aged out at the end of the season. As we the fans believe that the league may or may not made a mistake that's up to the individual fan to make that opinion.

The truth is the league did what the league believed to protect themselves and the teams, players and fans. The league is now moving forward toward 2021-22 season in hopes that the OHL will return safely for a full season. Now how and when the OHL moves forward to a R2P for 2021-22 that will TBD but I'm sure the OHL is considering what to for the fall of 2021-22.

 

[BadgerBruce]

In most respects, April 2021 is Groundhog Day for the OHL, meaning not a lot has changed since April 2020.

The OHL is shut down with no plan to resume play.

The province remains under heavy restrictions/lockdown.

The Canada/US border remains closed.

The minor midget priority selection (and maybe the U18?) is likely to take place yet again.

Regional public health units have not signed-off on any real or imagined municipal facility usage agreements.

The viability of billet housing remains a question.

The CHL announced the cancellation of the 2020 Memorial Cup on March 23; they announced the cancellation of the 2021 Memorial Cup on April 13.

This time last year, most of us wondered if the league could get all of its ducks in a row to launch a 2020-21 season.

Today? We wonder if the league can get all its ducks in a row to launch a 2021-22 season.

To me, there’s one big fat duck requiring immediate attention.

To my mind, the league must — and I mean MUST — come up with Plans A, B, and probably even C that are satisfactory to the clubs based in Erie, Flint, and Saginaw. This is not about plans that WE believe are logical or sensible or otherwise workable. No, they must be satisfactory/acceptable to the OWNERSHIPS of those franchises or else there might not be a 20-team OHL moving forward.

Remember, these 3 teams do not get to use one thin dime of the $2.35 million Ontario government scholarship fund bailout. Any additional government money coming down the pipe from Ontario or even the Canadian federal government will not go to those 3 US-based businesses.

The 17 other teams must come up with ways to ensure ALL 20 teams receive reasonably equitable financial assistance or the 20-room house is unlikely to stand. Whether this means the league needs to divert some of its own (as opposed to government’s) resources to those teams, or work with the CHL to access financial assistance, or go down some completely different road, I don’t know. But any plan moving forward had better look after these teams, or I suspect there will not be smooth sailing.

 

[OMG67]

In most respects, April 2021 is Groundhog Day for the OHL, meaning not a lot has changed since April 2020.

The OHL is shut down with no plan to resume play.

The province remains under heavy restrictions/lockdown.

The Canada/US border remains closed.

The minor midget priority selection (and maybe the U18?) is likely to take place yet again.

Regional public health units have not signed-off on any real or imagined municipal facility usage agreements.

The viability of billet housing remains a question.

The CHL announced the cancellation of the 2020 Memorial Cup on March 23; they announced the cancellation of the 2021 Memorial Cup on April 13.

This time last year, most of us wondered if the league could get all of its ducks in a row to launch a 2020-21 season.

Today? We wonder if the league can get all its ducks in a row to launch a 2021-22 season.

To me, there’s one big fat duck requiring immediate attention.

To my mind, the league must — and I mean MUST — come up with Plans A, B, and probably even C that are satisfactory to the clubs based in Erie, Flint, and Saginaw. This is not about plans that WE believe are logical or sensible or otherwise workable. No, they must be satisfactory/acceptable to the OWNERSHIPS of those franchises or else there might not be a 20-team OHL moving forward.

Remember, these 3 teams do not get to use one thin dime of the $2.35 million Ontario government scholarship fund bailout. Any additional government money coming down the pipe from Ontario or even the Canadian federal government will not go to those 3 US-based businesses.

The 17 other teams must come up with ways to ensure ALL 20 teams receive reasonably equitable financial assistance or the 20-room house is unlikely to stand. Whether this means the league needs to divert some of its own (as opposed to government’s) resources to those teams, or work with the CHL to access financial assistance, or go down some completely different road, I don’t know. But any plan moving forward had better look after these teams, or I suspect there will not be smooth sailing.

This is why I highly doubt the start of the season will happen with training camps on Labour Day weekend. There is far too much to do and align for that to all happen.

It is clear at least a strong number of owners have no interest in playing games without fans. That WILL be a problem. It is not like the League is going to be prepared to pull a “Flint” and start taking over teams.

The NHL is starting later and that means their training camps are also going to start later. A lot of OHL players will be participating at those training camps. As it stands now, players participating in NHL camps right through the start of the NHL season usually only miss the first weekend or two of the OHL season. If the OHL maintains their typical schedule and the NHL starts a month late, how will that affect OHL rosters? It would mean OHL players participating in NHL training camps will be missing a LONG time.

To me, it makes ZERO sense to even consider starting on time. There is no significant reason to do so. The League Plan A, in my mind, should be to align with the start of the NHL season. It gives the OHL an extra month or so to try to get fans in the seats and appease ALL owners.

The Memorial Cup is typically scheduled around Victoria Day weekend. There is no significant reason why that cannot be delayed by 3-4 weeks.

If the OHL were to come out as early as possible and say their Plan “A” is to align with the start of the NHL season, it gives every stakeholder a sense of urgency and a goal to work towards. If they make a Plan “A” that has a significant amount of difficulty attached combined with internal squabbles, they are setting themselves up for failure from the start.

After everything has happened, the last thing this League needs is to be overly aggressive and more failure.

 

[bigsportsfan]

Great article from the Hockey Writers regarding the cancellation of the OHL season - https://thehockeywriters.com/ohl-cancels-2020-21-season-fails-players/

"Other sports leagues around the world have been playing and even two leagues within your same branch and you couldn’t find a way to get any games in? Simply put, somewhere along the line someone or a group of people didn’t try hard enough. Where that blame falls directly is up for debate. Was it the owners who didn’t want to lose the money from a bubble season? Was it the commissioner David Branch? Was it something else? We don’t know the answer to that and likely never will."

"It’s hard to blame this on the government, especially when they told the OHL what they need to do to get back on the ice early in the process. The league should have known that day if they would be able to meet those needs or not and inform the players of it. Instead, you have this situation where no one knows anything and players were hung out to dry."

I think this sums up my complaint. I don't believe the OHL tried hard enough to make this happen. While the QMJHL was finalizing the start of their regular season without fans, the OHL was saying they couldn't play unless fans were allowed. The QMJHL was already playing games and the OHL hadn't even asked for government support.

Did the OHL run out of time, absolutely. But only because they started planning for the season so late.

For me as a fan it's no big deal. But for the players it's horrible.

 

[Teflon]

This is an ohl problem more than any other group. It’s their game/business. It was their responsibility to figure it out! The lack of transparency and contact with those involved has made it significantly worse. Imho this hurts the leagues image and frankly could be very damaging. Branch needs to resign or be removed. To address next season, I would agree with aligning with the nhl, that would take some direction tho from the league, I’m not sure we can count on that right now!

 

[beast mode]

The league will realize they’re in trouble soon enough starting with the draft...

 

[OMG67]

This is an ohl problem more than any other group. It’s their game/business. It was their responsibility to figure it out! The lack of transparency and contact with those involved has made it significantly worse. Imho this hurts the leagues image and frankly could be very damaging. Branch needs to resign or be removed. To address next season, I would agree with aligning with the nhl, that would take some direction tho from the league, I’m not sure we can count on that right now!

The problem is not very many people in Ontario care in the slightest. The problem is the fan base really isn't all that significant. This is evidenced by their inability to be relevant in the GTA. The Golden Horseshoe represnts close to 40% of the Canadian population. Naiagara, Hamilton and Oshawa exist in the horseshoe and they are on the outskirts.

The OHL needs to become more relevant which would motivate the owners to take it more seriously.

 

[rangersblues]

The problem is not very many people in Ontario care in the slightest. The problem is the fan base really isn't all that significant. This is evidenced by their inability to be relevant in the GTA. The Golden Horseshoe represnts close to 40% of the Canadian population. Naiagara, Hamilton and Oshawa exist in the horseshoe and they are on the outskirts.

The OHL needs to become more relevant which would motivate the owners to take it more seriously.

I agree. Even in the centres where the OHL is popular, there's a niche of fans that attend games regularly but after that interest is casual at best. That niche does grow during deep playoff runs.

 

[Purple Phart]

What will be intriguing, will be how each team deals with the loss of their projected overage players, and possibly their imports. Possibly the next season will become one of significant opportunity for those younger players who normally "age into" their respective positions. Those players may find that their development becomes accelerated. Those teams with strong overseas connections in the scouting departments will have some advantage over those teams who normally don't have a strong import connection.

Next season ( whenever that starts ) will be quite unique, in that some teams who were built for long runs this season, will have to re-think their rosters and replace those players they lost to overage, and other situations.

Some players have already opted toward using their education packages, and bid the OHL adieu. Others have been playing at the AHL level, and may not return. Each and every team will have these issues to deal with, and I'll be looking forward to see how those players who were drafted, but playing at Jr. B levels, will step up and
fill out the rosters of their A level clubs. Since the OHL self-promotes as a development league, we, as fans, will get to see a little more of that development, than usual.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

What will be intriguing, will be how each team deals with the loss of their projected overage players, and possibly their imports. Possibly the next season will become one of significant opportunity for those younger players who normally "age into" their respective positions. Those players may find that their development becomes accelerated. Those teams with strong overseas connections in the scouting departments will have some advantage over those teams who normally don't have a strong import connection.

Next season ( whenever that starts ) will be quite unique, in that some teams who were built for long runs this season, will have to re-think their rosters and replace those players they lost to overage, and other situations.

Some players have already opted toward using their education packages, and bid the OHL adieu. Others have been playing at the AHL level, and may not return. Each and every team will have these issues to deal with, and I'll be looking forward to see how those players who were drafted, but playing at Jr. B levels, will step up and
fill out the rosters of their A level clubs. Since the OHL self-promotes as a development league, we, as fans, will get to see a little more of that development, than usual.

There are a lot of intriguing variables for next season. The one that is the most interesting to me is all of the 2004-born players who were supposed to be rookies in 2020-21 and will now all be thrusted into their NHL draft year having 0 OHL games played. I think as it pertains to losing OAs, imports, professional graduates, etc., they will be fine. There will still be a draft this year and there was obviously one last year, so filling a roster shouldn't be an issue, but teams will have a ton of new faces.

The biggest hurdle I could see however is getting imports to either come back or sign a deal here (assuming there's an import draft). Almost, if not all the European leagues played a full 2020-21 season and the OHL isn't even guaranteed to play a full 2021-22 season yet. Even if the season does start, we've seen how quick Dougie is to change his mind on things and based on his handling of everything so far, I'd want nothing to do with the OHL in the upcoming season.

 

[OMG67]

There are a lot of intriguing variables for next season. The one that is the most interesting to me is all of the 2004-born players who were supposed to be rookies in 2020-21 and will now all be thrusted into their NHL draft year having 0 OHL games played. I think as it pertains to losing OAs, imports, professional graduates, etc., they will be fine. There will still be a draft this year and there was obviously one last year, so filling a roster shouldn't be an issue, but teams will have a ton of new faces.

The biggest hurdle I could see however is getting imports to either come back or sign a deal here (assuming there's an import draft). Almost, if not all the European leagues played a full 2020-21 season and the OHL isn't even guaranteed to play a full 2021-22 season yet. Even if the season does start, we've seen how quick Dougie is to change his mind on things and based on his handling of everything so far, I'd want nothing to do with the OHL in the upcoming season.

Yeah. I'd say Imports will be an issue but I am pretty sure they will have agreements to release if the season is stalled.

 

[TerryN]

What would happen if there is no OHL season?

Nailed it

 

[Otto]

ErieBank Sports Park to Host Junior Hockey Showcase

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Interesting development here. Wondering how it’s all going to work. Will we be able to see who is all attending or maybe even be able to watch any of this?

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Interesting development here. Wondering how it’s all going to work. Will we be able to see who is all attending or maybe even be able to watch any of this?

I retract.

 

[BadgerBruce]

I retract.

It’s player organized, not the league.

https://thehockeywriters.com/erie-hosting-major-junior-hockey-showcase/

It's a great idea, but my God, why do the players need to organize this? This makes the OHL look horrible.

 

[OMG67]

It’s player organized, not the league.

https://thehockeywriters.com/erie-hosting-major-junior-hockey-showcase/

It's a great idea, but my God, why do the players need to organize this? This makes the OHL look horrible.

Gawd AWEFUL optics for the OHL.

I’ve said for a while that the players could do their own thing any time they wanted provided they could get ice. At least with this they may be able to get some scouts to see them in a more organized format.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Gawd AWEFUL optics for the OHL.

I’ve said for a while that the players could do their own thing any time they wanted provided they could get ice. At least with this they may be able to get some scouts to see them in a more organized format.

I think it just speaks to the lack of leadership from the individual organizations and the OHL as a league itself.

 

[OMG67]

I think it just speaks to the lack of leadership from the individual organizations and the OHL as a league itself.

It’s very clear to me that individual organizations are scattered with respect to priorities. I think the individual ownerships are operating based on their own individual self interests as opposed to the collective interests of the league as a whole.

When this happens, it usually means too many teams are not viable financially and are stretched way too thin. That usually has a significant impact on what individual owners are capable of doing and that drives their decisions.

When McDonalds does a rebrand and requires renovations, there is no dissent without loss of franchise. The OHL/CHL needs to be led by a strong entity and drive what is best for the league as opposed to what is best for individual owners.

 

[BadgerBruce]

So, let’s get this straight: a small group of players, without any help from the OHL, needed just 90 days to:

Select a location
Book a facility
Create acceptable Covid protocols
Arrange player/event insurance
Receive local/State approval
Line up corporate sponsors
Line up individual donors
Line up vendors
Reserve hotel space
Arrange hotel-to-rink transportation
Invite a wide array of Scouts
Communicate with 120+ players
Arrange for on-ice officials
Establish ties with charitable organizations

But in 14 months not one of 20 OHL clubs can give these players so much as a single on-ice practice?

Cannot help them arrange local ice time to train?

I will never understand how the Commissioner, the Executive Committee and the owners can sleep at night. In every practical way, they’ve treated the players like Locked Out employees during a labour dispute. Like enemies. And now, when a bunch of them have officially aged-out of junior hockey, the league just says, “thanks for your service, we’re planning for the 21-22 season, have a nice life.”

Utterly shameful. Disgraceful. Morally bankrupt. There should be a special hotel in Hell, one without Covid protocols, reserved for these scoundrels.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Less than a week ago, Erie Otters owner, Jim Waters, said this to the local media:

“We’re the number one developmental (hockey) league in the world, and we need our players to get on the ice to be seen by scouts …and our job is to do whatever we can to help them do that.”

Erie Otters owner Jim Waters: 'We did everything we could' to save OHL season

Mr. Waters? Prove it.

There’s an upcoming event running right in your OHL town. Step up and help. Support these players. In the same Erie Times news article I linked, you also said that the Otters did not furlough any front office.
“These times are difficult enough, and I just felt like it was important I supported them,” Waters said. “I know not every (franchise) did that.”

So put these people to work.

A simple challenge. Are you up to it?