What would Bobby Orr's stats look like in this era ?

[Pominville Knows]

If it is true that people are as good as they have worked and trained for (that is, "gifted" just gives a jump start, nothing else) then I really think that Gretzky et co. wouldn't be that good in today's NHL. Yes, Gretzky could still be the best players, but I really don't think that he would be way better than for example Crosby.

I dont understand what you are trying to write here.

 

[Mr. Fancy Pants]

Yes, he was the greatest skater Ive ever seen both laterally and straight ahead. It was like there was no 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear, he just... moved.... and I experienced this first hand as a Goalie facing him....

Excuse me, what did you say? Time for a little story time perhaps?

 

[Arto Kilponen]

I dont understand what you are trying to write here.

People say being gifted means nothing in the end. It is all about how much you work. I think working the right way is important too -> I don't think Gretzky would be in either of those a lot ahead of Crosby.

 

[Pominville Knows]

People say being gifted means nothing in the end. It is all about how much you work. I think working the right way is important too -> I don't think Gretzky would be in either of those a lot ahead of Crosby.

There are players that work just as much as Crosby, but still plays in the AHL.

 

[Rhiessan71]

People say being gifted means nothing in the end. It is all about how much you work. I think working the right way is important too -> I don't think Gretzky would be in either of those a lot ahead of Crosby.

I think you need to do some research on Gretzky's work ethic before making any more silly statements like this.

In fact, why don't you google "Gretzky's work ethic" and then start reading.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

There are players that work just as much as Crosby, but still plays in the AHL.

Can you explain why? Is it purely because they don't work the right way (or as in hockey terms probably goes "are not coached correctly")?

I think you need to do some research on Gretzky's work ethic before making any more silly statements like this.

In fact, why don't you google "Gretzky's work ethic" and then start reading.

Please explain. I stated "not a lot more". If Crosby works 10 hours, "not a lot more" can be like 11 hours.

 

[Killion]

Excuse me, what did you say? Time for a little story time perhaps?

.... many many moons ago.... pre-season & summer camps.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Can you explain why? Is it purely because they don't work the right way (or as in hockey terms probably goes "are not coached correctly")?

Because they aren't as talented. The idea that talent doesn't matter in sports is complete BS.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

Because they aren't as talented. The idea that talent doesn't matter in sports is complete BS.

But doesn't talent come from working hard? Being gifted is different, right?

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

But doesn't talent come from working hard? Being gifted is different, right?

Talent is something you're born with. Working hard allows you to make the best use the talent you already have, but it won't create talent where it doesn't exist.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

Talent is something you're born with. Working hard allows you to make the best use the talent you already have, but it won't create talent where it doesn't exist.

So what is being gifted then?

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

So what is being gifted then?

It's the same damn thing. In the English language the two are used interchangeably.

 

[Killion]

So what is being gifted then?

"Gifted" = innate... hard-wired in ones DNA, speed, reflexes, psychologically, physiologically, early childhood development & the opportunity to develop naturally, unencumbered, initially an unstructured environment. Multi-sport participation. Not just hockey.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Working

"Gifted" = innate... hard-wired in ones DNA, speed, reflexes, psychologically, physiologically, early childhood development & the opportunity to develop naturally, unencumbered, initially an unstructured environment. Multi-sport participation. Not just hockey.

More or less agree except you have to add the ability to distinguish between working intelligently, properly and efficiently from working long and hard.

Many very skilled players never figured out the difference with the result that their hockey careers in the NHL were very short.

 

[Killion]

More or less agree except you have to add the ability to distinguish between working intelligently, properly and efficiently from working long and hard.

Many very skilled players never figured out the difference with the result that their hockey careers in the NHL were very short.

Oh you bet, the bolded... so much so that the very best, those with seriously gifted abilities, appears effortless. One creates a "calm". Own space & time. Skaters & goalies. Different levels, classes... those who are born with fewer/varying & specialized natural gifts & abilities but who through sheer hard work & determination manage to make it & stick around. Just not the case anymore for the mid-tier, a tonne of the Rookies coming in on ELC's... High turnover, turn & burn. Short careers. But sure, back in the day as well, countless stories of guys who burned out pretty quickly and that at a time when careers were much longer, you made it you hoped to play a good solid 10-15yrs.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Youth Hockey

Oh you bet, the bolded... so much so that the very best, those with seriously gifted abilities, appears effortless. One creates a "calm". Own space & time. Skaters & goalies. Different levels, classes... those who are born with fewer/varying & specialized natural gifts & abilities but who through sheer hard work & determination manage to make it & stick around. Just not the case anymore for the mid-tier, a tonne of the Rookies coming in on ELC's... High turnover, turn & burn. Short careers. But sure, back in the day as well, countless stories of guys who burned out pretty quickly and that at a time when careers were much longer, you made it you hoped to play a good solid 10-15yrs.

You see the same situations in youth hockey. Putting on a skating exhibition instead of playing hockey. The pro act, the attempt at sizzle, the grandstanding, etc. Wasted time and energy. Learning opportunities that never comeback.

 

[SealsFan]

My estimations for the Big 4:

Player / G / A / PTS

Gretzky - 46 - 110 - 156
Lemieux - 60 - 90 - 150
Howe - 46 - 80 - 126 - (with all-around game)
Orr - 32 - 82 - 114 - (with all-around game)

This is about what I was thinking. There is so much parity in today's game that there are no longer any of the type of patsies that used to get pounded into submission by the Bruins and other top clubs back in the 70's. No team today is the equivalent of the Washington Capitals and Kansas City Scouts in their first 2 years, along with some bad seasons by expansionists Buffalo, Vancouver, Islanders along with the Seals (who did deal the B's a few upsets) and a few bad seasons by the Kings and Redwings.

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

So what is being gifted then?

Natural you just have it , Barry bonds said something like he just knew when a pitcher was gunna try to do something he couldn't and that's when he mashed the ball , he said he can't explain why he just knows

Same with Larry bird , he said he can't jump or run but basketball just came easy to him, he said he just thought the game out

This is a reason why lots of really good players suck at coaching , they can't tell you why they are good they just are