What "will" Army do at the TDL

[PJJJP]

We might pay that price for guy who has term. Army has always been adverse to paying premium assets for rentals. Only time he did was Miller and that didn't work out so well.

I agree. Army m.o. is more acquiring players with term or players he can believes he can sign to an extension and he is not shy about paying for them. He also likes doing deals that we don't hear about until the last second.

 

[rumrokh]

From JR

Hearing the Blues did NOT stick around until the end with Chiarot. As we surmised, it sounds like Army knew it was going to be more than he wanted to pay and got out.


We aren’t getting anybody. Army won’t part with Bolduc, Neighbors or a 1st imo. Which is fine by me.

I would give up a 1st AND Bolduc to acquire Lindholm signed. The problem is fitting that contract, too.

But at these prices, it might seriously be the right move for the Blues to retool on the fly like they did in 2018 when they dealt Stastny despite being a playoff team.

The Blues are a flawed team, but they aren't one player (of the guys who are reasonably available) away from being a surefire Conference Finalist. They still have to go through good teams. It sucks to be so deep at forward and so close to being a serious contender, but still more than one trade away. But I'd rather be a playoff team with growing stars and an open window than dramatically overpay at the wrong time.

 

[Spektre]

I would give up a 1st AND Bolduc to acquire Lindholm signed. The problem is fitting that contract, too.

But at these prices, it might seriously be the right move for the Blues to retool on the fly like they did in 2018 when they dealt Stastny despite being a playoff team.

The Blues are a flawed team, but they aren't one player (of the guys who are reasonably available) away from being a surefire Conference Finalist. They still have to go through good teams. It sucks to be so deep at forward and so close to being a serious contender, but still more than one trade away. But I'd rather be a playoff team with growing stars and an open window than dramatically overpay at the wrong time.

I don’t think it’s hard to fit Lindholm’s next contract in as long as Tarasenko is traded in the offseason

 

[rumrokh]

I don’t think it’s hard to fit Lindholm’s next contract in as long as Tarasenko is traded in the offseason

It's plausible, but you rarely see big moves conditional on other big moves - at all, but also, for them to pan out when it goes down like that. Doesn't seem like an Armstrong move to handcuff himself that way, but we haven't quite seen the Blues in this exact situation before. It'll be interesting to see what happens. For now, I'm just glad he didn't fall into the Chiarot trap.

 

[LGB]

I don’t think it’s hard to fit Lindholm’s next contract in as long as Tarasenko is traded in the offseason

It’s hard to fit him in two years when we need to sign Thomas and Kyrou

 

[PJJJP]

I have this weird feeling that Army is going to do something big but idk if that's necessarily a good thing

 

[Brian39]

I don’t think it’s hard to fit Lindholm’s next contract in as long as Tarasenko is traded in the offseason

The issue isn't 2022/23. The issue is the summer of 2023.

Schenn, Saad, Faulk, Parayko, Krug, and Binner all have full NTCs through at least 2024. That's $36.5M locked up. Add $5.8M for Buch who only has limited trade protection but needs to stay. $42.3M. Let's say Lindholm loves it here and takes a bit of a discount to sign that "Army spceial" $6.5M deal. Now we're up to $48.8M on 7 guys with full trade protection and another guy who is essential. Thomas and Kyrou need to be re-signed in 2023 and will each earn an absolute minimum of $7.5M each. Now we're up to $63.8M on 10 guys. The cap for 2023/24 will be $83.5M, so that's less than $20M to fill 13 roster spots. That includes extending or replacing ROR, Perron, Husso, Tarasenko, Barbie, and Mikkola.

We're already very squeezed for 2023/24 and a Lindholm extension takes several million more dollars out of the pool.

 

[Celtic Note]

The issue isn't 2022/23. The issue is the summer of 2023.

Schenn, Saad, Faulk, Parayko, Krug, and Binner all have full NTCs through at least 2024. That's $36.5M locked up. Add $5.8M for Buch who only has limited trade protection but needs to stay. $42.3M. Let's say Lindholm loves it here and takes a bit of a discount to sign that "Army spceial" $6.5M deal. Now we're up to $48.8M on 7 guys with full trade protection and another guy who is essential. Thomas and Kyrou need to be re-signed in 2023 and will each earn an absolute minimum of $7.5M each. Now we're up to $63.8M on 10 guys. The cap for 2023/24 will be $83.5M, so that's less than $20M to fill 13 roster spots. That includes extending or replacing ROR, Perron, Husso, Tarasenko, Barbie, and Mikkola.

We're already very squeezed for 2023/24 and a Lindholm extension takes several million more dollars out of the pool.

Yeah, the high dollar defenseman is going to be a big problem in a couple years. I get that we need a LHD now, but if we end up losing three top six forwards, this team will go from offensive powerhouse to pretty anemic very quickly. Will the addition of a very good defenseman offset those loses? I don’t think so. Will Neighbours and Bolduc be able to replace that production? I don’t think so either.

 

[Blanick]

The issue isn't 2022/23. The issue is the summer of 2023.

Schenn, Saad, Faulk, Parayko, Krug, and Binner all have full NTCs through at least 2024. That's $36.5M locked up. Add $5.8M for Buch who only has limited trade protection but needs to stay. $42.3M. Let's say Lindholm loves it here and takes a bit of a discount to sign that "Army spceial" $6.5M deal. Now we're up to $48.8M on 7 guys with full trade protection and another guy who is essential. Thomas and Kyrou need to be re-signed in 2023 and will each earn an absolute minimum of $7.5M each. Now we're up to $63.8M on 10 guys. The cap for 2023/24 will be $83.5M, so that's less than $20M to fill 13 roster spots. That includes extending or replacing ROR, Perron, Husso, Tarasenko, Barbie, and Mikkola.

We're already very squeezed for 2023/24 and a Lindholm extension takes several million more dollars out of the pool.

I am curious where did you hear that the cap next year will be 83.5? Not saying your wrong but the rumors earlier this season was that the cap was going to go up "significantly" after years of being stagnant.

 

[execwrite1]

Yikes

Montreal’s Ben Chiarot, another lefthanded rental, has been the name most linked to the Blues in media reports. But he was traded Wednesday night to the Florida Panthers for a first-round draft pick in 2023, a fourth-round pick in 2022, and prospect Ty Smilanic. Montreal has agreed to pick up half of Chiarot’s contract, which has a cap hit of $3.5 million.

 

[Brian39]

I am curious where did you hear that the cap next year will be 83.5? Not saying your wrong but the rumors earlier this season was that the cap was going to go up "significantly" after years of being stagnant.

The cap next year will be $82.5M. The cap the following season will be $83.5M.

This is all per the terms of the new(ish) CBA. The cap can increase by a maximum of $1M per year until the HRR debt owed to the owners by the players is paid off. This year is just year 2 of a flat cap and this is the first season where the the players are starting to pay back the money they owe the teams. Last year saw the league shorten the schedule to 56 largely fanless games while still paying the players their full salaries. Eventually the cap will jump after several years of a stagnant cap. We're still multiple seasons away from that.

Here's an article about the 2022/23 cap being $82.5M with a tweet from Lebrun alluding to the fact that this had been agreed upon earlier.

Here is a link to download the MOU that extended the CBA (with some edits) in 2020 and includes the following language about the cap only increasing by $1M per year until the player debt is paid off to the owners: Once Preliminary HRR for the immediately preceding League Year surpasses $4.8 Billion, the Upper Limit will increase by $1 Million per League Year until the Escrow Balance is paid off.

 

[finnishflash13]

The issue isn't 2022/23. The issue is the summer of 2023.

Schenn, Saad, Faulk, Parayko, Krug, and Binner all have full NTCs through at least 2024. That's $36.5M locked up. Add $5.8M for Buch who only has limited trade protection but needs to stay. $42.3M. Let's say Lindholm loves it here and takes a bit of a discount to sign that "Army spceial" $6.5M deal. Now we're up to $48.8M on 7 guys with full trade protection and another guy who is essential. Thomas and Kyrou need to be re-signed in 2023 and will each earn an absolute minimum of $7.5M each. Now we're up to $63.8M on 10 guys. The cap for 2023/24 will be $83.5M, so that's less than $20M to fill 13 roster spots. That includes extending or replacing ROR, Perron, Husso, Tarasenko, Barbie, and Mikkola.

We're already very squeezed for 2023/24 and a Lindholm extension takes several million more dollars out of the pool.

$20M for filler roster spots doesn't seem that bad. Plus, many of the players you mentioned re: extending or replacing will be either older and could potentially take significantly less than they're making now or won't be on the team, and then Barbie and Mikkola are not going to receive huge paydays (unless their play drastically changes but that could be a good problem to have) -- not to mention up and coming players like Neighbours who also wouldn't take a up a lot of cap space.

 

[Bluesguru]

Chara for a 5th rd pick.

I don’t see him trading away top prospects or high picks. If he’s truly looking to trade Binnington, then Toronto makes the most sense but I don’t know what he’d want back in return from them. We need a quality D man and does Toronto got one to offer?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Chara for a 5th rd pick.

I don’t see him trading away top prospects or high picks. If he’s truly looking to trade Binnington, then Toronto makes the most sense but I don’t know what he’d want back in return from them. We need a quality D man and does Toronto got one to offer?

No thank you for Chara.

 

[Bluesish]

I think the Blues probably have a trade in principle agreed to with someone that won't be announced until after tonight's game. Nothing to base this on, just a hunch.

 

[BlueMed]

I think the Blues probably have a trade in principle agreed to with someone that won't be announced until after tonight's game. Nothing to base this on, just a hunch.

We'll have to see if you're right.

 

[BlueMed]

I would give up a 1st AND Bolduc to acquire Lindholm signed. The problem is fitting that contract, too.

But at these prices, it might seriously be the right move for the Blues to retool on the fly like they did in 2018 when they dealt Stastny despite being a playoff team.

The Blues are a flawed team, but they aren't one player (of the guys who are reasonably available) away from being a surefire Conference Finalist. They still have to go through good teams. It sucks to be so deep at forward and so close to being a serious contender, but still more than one trade away. But I'd rather be a playoff team with growing stars and an open window than dramatically overpay at the wrong time.

What people aren't asking here is what the opportunity cost would be if the Blues decide to retool this season rather than going all in. With the cap rather flat, this may be Perron's last season as a Blue. Also, after next season, Kyrou and Thomas will be due for massive raises from their 2.8M AAV, and ROR and Tarasenko's contracts will end at that time with no certainty of either of them returning. It's this year or next year. We can't just sit back and retool with a forward group this deep while our prime players get another year older.

 

[rumrokh]

What people aren't asking here is what the opportunity cost would be if the Blues decide to retool this season rather than going all in. With the cap rather flat, this may be Perron's last season as a Blue. Also, after next season, Kyrou and Thomas will be due for massive raises from their 2.8M AAV, and ROR and Tarasenko's contracts will end at that time with no certainty of either of them returning. It's this year or next year. We can't just sit back and retool with a forward group this deep while our prime players get another year older.

But at the current market costs, can the Blues become good enough now?

It sounds like you're saying moves should revolve around a window that's snapping shut very soon. The last time fans thought the Blues were in a similar situation was when they acquired Bouwmeester and Miller in consecutive years. They still weren't good enough and won the Cup five years after that, but only because they retooled so they'd have depth at every position - and because Bouwmeester wasn't a rental. And they hung onto Parayko, Thomas, Kyrou, and their current goaltending tandem along the way - the reason they're still good instead of completely collapsing after the Cup run.

Among the available players, one guy isn't going to fix the Blues' problems on defense. Any moves they make (and their costs) have to be weighed against that.

 

[BlueMed]

But at the current market costs, can the Blues become good enough now?

It sounds like you're saying moves should revolve around a window that's snapping shut very soon. The last time fans thought the Blues were in a similar situation was when they acquired Bouwmeester and Miller in consecutive years. They still weren't good enough and won the Cup five years after that, but only because they retooled so they'd have depth at every position - and because Bouwmeester wasn't a rental. And they hung onto Parayko, Thomas, Kyrou, and their current goaltending tandem along the way - the reason they're still good instead of completely collapsing after the Cup run.

Among the available players, one guy isn't going to fix the Blues' problems on defense. Any moves they make (and their costs) have to be weighed against that.

Let's take a closer look at the D core. Hypothetically, if the Blues get Lindholm,

Lindholm-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Mikkola-Bortuzzo

Where is the problem exactly?

This forward group is the deepest in franchise history, and deciding to retool when the Blues are one legit piece away is not the best idea. There is NO perfect team in this league and waiting for the perfect opportunity while this core group of players gets older is not ideal. Also, comparing our expectations to those during the Backes Era isn't really fair considering this fan base didn't really know what it took to win then. We are post-cup at this point with a very different team now then during the Miller trade. This team has legit star power with multiple players that could post 70+ points in a full 82 game season, a cup winning goaltender, and a strong center spine. Those were ALL lacking during the Backes Era.

 

[rumrokh]

Let's take a closer look at the D core. Hypothetically, if the Blues get Lindholm,

Lindholm-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Mikkola-Bortuzzo

Where is the problem exactly?

This forward group is the deepest in franchise history, and deciding to retool when the Blues are one legit piece away is not the best idea. There is NO perfect team in this league and waiting for the perfect opportunity while this core group of players gets older is not ideal.

I don't understand what you're trying to say, given that I specifically said I'd give up those pieces to acquire Lindholm.

 

[BlueMed]

I don't understand what you're trying to say, given that I specifically said I'd give up those pieces to acquire Lindholm.

Our disagreement comes down to our willingness to pay for an extended Lindholm at this trade deadline. Of course I wouldn't trade 5 players to get him, but retooling at this point is not an option that I would entertain. Now is the time to go all in because the window is closed after next season.

 

[rumrokh]

Our disagreement comes down to our willingness to pay for an extended Lindholm at this trade deadline. Of course I wouldn't trade 5 players to get him, but retooling at this point is not an option that I would entertain. Now is the time to go all in because the window is closed after next season.

I don't get this. I specifically said I want the Blues to acquire Lindholm with an extension. That's the condition under which I'm willing to pay multiple serious assets. That was obviously unclear, so I apologize for causing that confusion.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Lindholm heading to Boston.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Options have run out...
The Blues are playing lazy and sloppy hockey...

I expect DA to pass

 

[Spektre]

well f*** I'm disappointed... Lindholm signs for 6.5 mil/yr is exactly what the Blues need regardless if they are currently playing sloppy or not.... damn the river!!!