Speculation: What was this Teams biggest mistake?

[IPS]

For me, I think the biggest mistake this team made was when they hired Brendan Shanahan as team President, who never had any prior experience in this role (yes, I know other teams have done the same thing). That decision led to him naming Kyle Dubas as the Leafs' GM in 2018, who then named Sheldon Keefe as the new coach (who had no prior experience as an NHL coach) after firing Babcock (although that turned out to be a good decision).

This was the "perfect storm" that has led the Leafs to where they are now.

To add to the perfect storm - everybody just gets to keep their job no matter what. Absolutely absurd it took as long as it did to get Dubas and Keefe out of Toronto. The organization just drags their feet for no good reason on obvious moves they end up being years late on.

The Columbus series should have set off the alarms, but after the Montreal series it was obvious they had to clean out the front office.

 

[Racer88]

To add to the perfect storm - everybody just gets to keep their job no matter what. Absolutely absurd it took as long as it did to get Dubas and Keefe out of Toronto. The organization just drags their feet for no good reason on obvious moves they end up being years late on.

The Columbus series should have set off the alarms, but after the Montreal series it was obvious they had to clean out the front office.

They are paralyzed with fear and it’s looking like the new big boss is the same as the old big boss……lots of big talk at the presser but no action

 

[Captain Crunch]

To add to the perfect storm - everybody just gets to keep their job no matter what. Absolutely absurd it took as long as it did to get Dubas and Keefe out of Toronto. The organization just drags their feet for no good reason on obvious moves they end up being years late on.

The Columbus series should have set off the alarms, but after the Montreal series it was obvious they had to clean out the front office.

Agree 1000%!

 

[francis246]

They are paralyzed with fear and it’s looking like the new big boss is the same as the old big boss……lots of big talk at the presser but no action

Does that not tell you that Shanahan is controlling a lot of this? You’re telling me both Dubas and Treliving have given no thought to moving one of the five? Come on, the common denominator is Shanahan. Like you and others have said, an NMC is a barrier but players with NMC’s have been traded before. At this point I think Shanahan or the board is blocking that move. I think Shanahan made a promise to this guys like he said 2 years ago when he called each of them and he’s sticking to his word unfortunately.

 

[Racer88]

Does that not tell you that Shanahan is controlling a lot of this? You’re telling me both Dubas and Treliving have given no thought to moving one of the five? Come on, the common denominator is Shanahan. Like you and others have said, an NMC is a barrier but players with NMC’s have been traded before. At this point I think Shanahan or the board is blocking that move. I think Shanahan made a promise to this guys like he said 2 years ago when he called each of them and he’s sticking to his word unfortunately.

You know, I'm almost coming over to the side of giving Dubas a little bit of a break.
Shanny is no doubt a train wreck and a major contributor of the leaf continual failure in the playoffs

 

[ToneDog]

 

[francis246]

You know, I'm almost coming over to the side of giving Dubas a little bit of a break.
Shanny is no doubt a train wreck and a major contributor of the leaf continual failure in the playoffs

Dubas made a lot of questionable moves, but one thing we do know is that prior to be fired he was ready to move somebody. Just my interpretation, I think the power struggle has less to do with Dubas wanting to be president and more so realizing one of the five guys has to be moved and something has to change. Don't think ol president boy was too fond of that idea. It will be fascinating when someone writes a book on what went down from 2015-2023

 

[Racer88]

Dubas made a lot of questionable moves, but one thing we do know is that prior to be fired he was ready to move somebody. Just my interpretation, I think the power struggle has less to do with Dubas wanting to be president and more so realizing one of the five guys has to be moved and something has to change. Don't think ol president boy was too fond of that idea. It will be fascinating when someone writes a book on what went down from 2015-2023

For sure. I would love to know that actuall story behind the scenes

 

[thewave]

Dubas made a lot of questionable moves, but one thing we do know is that prior to be fired he was ready to move somebody. Just my interpretation, I think the power struggle has less to do with Dubas wanting to be president and more so realizing one of the five guys has to be moved and something has to change. Don't think ol president boy was too fond of that idea. It will be fascinating when someone writes a book on what went down from 2015-2023

He certainly was ready to move someone. He started to see the light at the end of his learn how to GM on the fly stint here.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Dubas made a lot of questionable moves, but one thing we do know is that prior to be fired he was ready to move somebody. Just my interpretation, I think the power struggle has less to do with Dubas wanting to be president and more so realizing one of the five guys has to be moved and something has to change. Don't think ol president boy was too fond of that idea. It will be fascinating when someone writes a book on what went down from 2015-2023

It's funny how Dubas said he was ready to move someone and it must be true, but Tre saying he wants to make changes is obviously just lip service.

 

[francis246]

It's funny how Dubas said he was ready to move someone and it must be true, but Tre saying he wants to make changes is obviously just lip service.

the difference is we know that Dubas was ready to acquire Erik Karlsson in Toronto. Not saying it would have been a good move but that move was happening whether Dubas was Leafs GM or Penguins GM and Karlsson was ready to waive to come to Toronto

 

[Dekes For Days]

the difference is we know that Dubas was ready to acquire Erik Karlsson in Toronto.

No we don't.

 

[francis246]

No we don't.

Kyle Dubas HIMSELF revealed that he was in the works of a Karlsson deal and other insiders also backed up those claims. With a few saying he was hell bent on acquiring Erik Karlsson. When Kyle acquired Erik Karlsson, Kyle Dubas himself said this, “

"It was a fairly lengthy process that goes back to my previous employment," Dubas admitted. "Even though he's in his early thirties, he continues to be one of the top skaters in the NHL and obviously his offense is quite prolific.

Then Karlsson did an interview in Sweden where he said, the Penguins, Maple Leafs and Hurricanes were the teams interested in his services.

 

[notDatsyuk]

the difference is we know that Dubas was ready to acquire Erik Karlsson in Toronto. Not saying it would have been a good move but that move was happening whether Dubas was Leafs GM or Penguins GM and Karlsson was ready to waive to come to Toronto

Acquiring Karlsson does not necessarily mean he was going to move someone (particularly one of the big four). Again, he said he would move someone, and that seems to be taken as gospel, but Tre saying he wants to is considered just talk?

It just seems to be a double standard.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Kyle Dubas HIMSELF revealed that he was in the works of a Karlsson deal and other insiders also backed up those claims. With a few saying he was hell bent on acquiring Erik Karlsson. When Kyle acquired Erik Karlsson, Kyle Dubas himself said this, “
"It was a fairly lengthy process that goes back to my previous employment," Dubas admitted. "Even though he's in his early thirties, he continues to be one of the top skaters in the NHL and obviously his offense is quite prolific.
Then Karlsson did an interview in Sweden where he said, the Penguins, Maple Leafs and Hurricanes were the teams interested in his services.

There was no deal. There was interest. Being interested does not equal "that move was happening".
If you haven't noticed, we're "interested" in a lot of things that never actually happen.

 

[banks]

I'm changing my vote. Brian Burke.

Burke was a dinosaur and made a lot of dumb moves. This is coming from a fan that liked Kessel and Phaneuf. But he was still a moron most of the time. But the big problem is that Burke lead to Nonis, who was just a Burke Jr yes-man who kept the incompetent status quo.

Between the two of them they wasted more years than any other mistake in my lifetime as a fan.

 

[hotpaws]

he never said he was going to move someone , all he said was all options were on the table which when it comes to Dubas doesn't mean shit since he loves to talk big

Dubas is incompetent as he has already proved once again in Pitt , Shanny should be gone for hiring him and allowing him to destroy our window but trying to blame Shanny for Dumbass incompetence is absurd especially since he's making the same dumb ass moves in Pitt that he did here .

 

[Mess]

he never said he was going to move someone , all he said was all options were on the table which when it comes to Dubas doesn't mean shit since he loves to talk big

Dubas is incompetent as he has already proved once again in Pitt , Shanny should be gone for hiring him and allowing him to destroy our window but trying to blame Shanny for Dumbass incompetence is absurd especially since he's making the same dumb ass moves in Pitt that he did here .

Looks like Pens Nation is realizing what smart Leaf fans knew all along.

Penguins fans destroy GM Kyle Dubas in latest ranking ​

Pens fans aren't very confident in their current GM.

Fan confidence fell an astounding 31% from their position at this point last offseason, while management earned particularly low marks for their performance in executing trades, navigating the free-agency market, and drafting/development of players.

And with no major moves so far this offseason combined with franchise cornerstones Evgeni Malkin, Kris Letang and Crosby all turning a year old, the Penguins don't appear poised to make a return to the playoffs any time soon. In fact, fan confidence in Dubas and the rest of the Pittsburgh management staff was ranked among the lowest of all 32 NHL teams, coming in at No. 29 overall.

Penguins fans destroy GM Kyle Dubas in latest ranking

Pens fans aren't very confident in their current GM.

www.hockeyfeed.com

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'm changing my vote. Brian Burke.

Burke was a dinosaur and made a lot of dumb moves. This is coming from a fan that liked Kessel and Phaneuf. But he was still a moron most of the time. But the big problem is that Burke lead to Nonis, who was just a Burke Jr yes-man who kept the incompetent status quo.

Between the two of them they wasted more years than any other mistake in my lifetime as a fan.

Burke for four years and Nonis for two+. Yes, just going by duration and lumping them together, it was more time. But bad as they were, I don't think they were worse than Dubas.

And while I liked Kessel, I don't think the trades for either him or Phaneuf were good ones.

 

[JKG33]

The answer to this thread is obvious. Dubas.

An argument could be made that Matthews, Marner, and Nylander were all rotten individually before they were event drafted by the Leafs. It's an argument I have in fact made. But I can't fault a team for taking BPA, the only one I had real issue with was Marner over I think it was Hanifin.

But it became obvious these players weren't it a few years into the league. When that happens, a competent GM hires a hardass coach to correct the poor behavior from the players. Failing that, a competent GM trades the players while the rest of the league still sees them as budding young stars and not the problems they really are.

Instead, an incompetent GM fires the hardass coach and brings in a softie to help coddle the kids. An incompetent GM hands out unprecedented RFA overpayments while still not getting term to players who have accomplished f*** all.

 

[Racer88]

The answer to this thread is obvious. Dubas.

An argument could be made that Matthews, Marner, and Nylander were all rotten individually before they were event drafted by the Leafs. It's an argument I have in fact made. But I can't fault a team for taking BPA, the only one I had real issue with was Marner over I think it was Hanifin.

But it became obvious these players weren't it a few years into the league. When that happens, a competent GM hires a hardass coach to correct the poor behavior from the players. Failing that, a competent GM trades the players while the rest of the league still sees them as budding young stars and not the problems they really are.

Instead, an incompetent GM fires the hardass coach and brings in a softie to help coddle the kids. An incompetent GM hands out unprecedented RFA overpayments while still not getting term to players who have accomplished f*** all.

This 100%

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I'm changing my vote. Brian Burke.

Burke was a dinosaur and made a lot of dumb moves. This is coming from a fan that liked Kessel and Phaneuf. But he was still a moron most of the time. But the big problem is that Burke lead to Nonis, who was just a Burke Jr yes-man who kept the incompetent status quo.

Between the two of them they wasted more years than any other mistake in my lifetime as a fan.

I'll be pissed about Two 1sts and a 2nd for Kessel forever. Wrong trade, wrong player, wrong time. I'll never understand where Burke's head was at with that one. He didn't believe Leafs Nation could stomach a rebuild (he was extremely wrong but I digress), fine. Why would he target a soft, one-dimensional winger of all players to mortgage the future on?

And in typical Leafs fashion it went the worst way possible, with the team completely bottoming out in year one of that deal, and then handing over another top 10 pick the year after. This franchise really should stop trading 1st round picks over a year in advance. Kurvers meant no Lindros/Niedermayer, re-acquiring Clark meant no Luongo, Kessel cost us Seguin and Hamilton, and trading Marleau off this team lost us Jarvis.

I'm convinced that whatever deity loves f***ing over this franchise is intent on punishing us in the most severe way possible every time we deal 1st rounders 12 months out.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

I'll be pissed about Two 1sts and a 2nd for Kessel forever. Wrong trade, wrong player, wrong time. I'll never understand where Burke's head was at with that one. He didn't believe Leafs Nation could stomach a rebuild (he was extremely wrong but I digress), fine. Why would he target a soft, one-dimensional winger of all players to mortgage the future on?

And in typical Leafs fashion it went the worst way possible, with the team completely bottoming out in year one of that deal, and then handing over another top 10 pick the year after. This franchise really should stop trading 1st round picks over a year in advance. Kurvers meant no Lindros/Niedermayer, re-acquiring Clark meant no Luongo, Kessel cost us Seguin and Hamilton, and trading Marleau off this team lost us Jarvis.

I'm convinced that whatever deity loves f***ing over this franchise is intent on punishing us in the most severe way possible every time we deal 1st rounders 12 months out.

Burke wrote in his book that ownership wanted him to add a star because the ticket market was cooling off. Different ownership, same priorities.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Burke wrote in his book that ownership wanted him to add a star because the ticket market was cooling off. Different ownership, same priorities.

That’s good insight. Burke could’ve picked a better target then at least. But f*** MLSE for their shortsightedness.

 

[solidaritypucks]

The team has undervalued GTA & Ontario talent going on 25 years. With the current group of players canning Lou/Babcock and putting the players in charge of setting the culture has been a major competitive mistake.