What the HELL is going on with Henrik Lundqvist?

[Chimpradamus]

Hank is playing exactly the same way this season as he did in all other seasons, except maybe 2005-2006. I just don't understand how you can't see this. Don't let those 30 games win per season fool you. It was all because of the fact that he played almost all games. He probably leads in loses as well. Consider this: even if you don't make the playoffs you can still get 30 wins if you play a lot. Not a big deal. But it did create a lot of hype around the NHL.

Yes, I forgot. How many seasons did the Rangers make the playoffs since the lockout, now that you mention it? According to our goalie expert here, it seems it was in spite of Hank much more than because of. But then again, who was considered the MVP of the team again, every year? Perhaps you can shed some light on the situation with your great insight. You're sitting on a bomb here, why haven't you told any hockey journalists yet? Perhaps they will be interested in taking you up on your excellent story, with your great facts and your keen eye for the fundamentals of the game.

"It was because he played almost all games." You make it sound like it's a huge advantage for a NHL goaltender to play a huge amount of all games when it comes to overall performance. Why do you think all people who have any knowledge of hockey favour workhorses who put up a consistent performance while playing a whole lot? You make it sound so easy.

I won't debate this with you, this is utterly ridiculous and your arguments are completely invalid. This discussion is over. You can ramble all you want, I'm not the one making a fool out of myself here.

 

[OnlyTruth]

Yes, I forgot. How many seasons did the Rangers make the playoffs since the lockout, now that you mention it? According to our goalie expert here, it seems it was in spite of Hank much more than because of. But then again, who was considered the MVP of the team again, every year? Perhaps you can shed some light on the situation with your great insight. You're sitting on a bomb here, why haven't you told any hockey journalists yet? Perhaps they will be interested in taking you up on your excellent story, with your great facts and your keen eye for the fundamentals of the game.

"It was because he played almost all games." You make it sound like it's a huge advantage for a NHL goaltender to play a huge amount of all games when it comes to overall performance. Why do you think all people who have any knowledge of hockey favour workhorses who put up a consistent performance while playing a whole lot? You make it sound so easy.

I won't debate this with you, this is utterly ridiculous and your arguments are completely invalid. This discussion is over. You can ramble all you want, I'm not the one making a fool out of myself here.

What is his win % in every of those seasons? Do you really think it deserves a vezina nominee? All you talk about is administrative stuff. Who said what on the team or around the NHL. Give me the actual facts. Not saying his numbers are bad but he clearly under archived under the 6 goalie system. AV system really exposed him. He was always average at best and all these was just a hype from NYC/MSG non-stop commercials of him. They tried to do the same this season, but it got to the point that it just started to look funny, so they stopped. Even Joe stopped his constant admiration.

 

[aufheben]

He carried us nowhere in the last 8 years. Instead it was Renney and Torts 6 goalie system that carried Hank. And even with that, he under performed. He is average at best and any goalie would of done the same under these conditions and much better I should say.
It is funny though how people here gave all the credit to Hank for winning games in the past, but blaming the team for loses.

Hank = commercial + over hype + overrating

This is the worst move Sather made ever. And he made many bad moves in the past. Rangers are now doomed for years to come.

It just...blows my mind. The countless awe-inspiring saves; the games, seasons, that Henrik Lundqvist has bailed this team out, he's been not just it's backbone but the entire skeleton...and people say stuff like this. Or just a troll, Idk anymore.

Seriously, what have you been watching for 8 years? It makes me sad that there is a single NYR fan out there that doesn't appreciate the guy.

 

[ugrimugri*]

I assume nobody thinks Talbot in net will actually solve anything. The core that is supposed to form the backbone of the team has looked awful and hasn't been close to meet expectations whatsoever since the lockout. The Rangers are quickly becoming the new Islanders. We all know the guy running this team is the one who should be fired, but since it's ok to be a mediocre GM for eternity under Dolan, nothing will happen. The NYR management as a whole is just bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugrimugri
The core that is supposed to form the backbone of the team has managed to win 80% of the games when Talbot has been appointed to be the starter..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp
It's certainly not that simple, there's a little bit more to it than that. If you believe it's that simple, go ahead.

---

Please explain that "little bit more to it than that" thing.

As I posted a little earlier, I don't expect that the rest of the Rangers are overwhelmed and jumping with joy when an underperforming Hankie gets a significant payraise for the next 7 years. It might be a problem that will be significant regarding Hankie's NYR future games as well.

 

[TollefsenFan]

What is his win % in every of those seasons? Do you really think it deserves a vezina nominee? All you talk about is administrative stuff. Who said what on the team or around the NHL. Give me the actual facts. Not saying his numbers are bad but he clearly under archived under the 6 goalie system. AV system really exposed him. He was always average at best and all these was just a hype from NYC/MSG non-stop commercials of him. They tried to do the same this season, but it got to the point that it just started to look funny, so they stopped. Even Joe stopped his constant admiration.

He won Olympic gold With sweden as their starting goaltender in 2006. In the 2011-12 season he had a gaa 1,97. He has had 92save % in 5 Seasons (even last season). '

Avs system? Dont forget that Av is not good at organizing a good defense. He failed in Vancouver and he will fail in NYR.

 

[TollefsenFan]

Check his stats

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=286

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Lundqvist is easily the most consistent goalie this franchise has ever had.

He's had a bad start. Great goalies find ways to turn it around.

If some of you idiots were around in 1993, you probably wanted Richter traded and Corey Hirsch the starter. And hirsch was the best goalie prospect in hockey at the time.

You don't get rid of consistency in favor of a flash in the pan at the first sign of concern.

 

[Chimpradamus]

What is his win % in every of those seasons? Do you really think it deserves a vezina nominee? All you talk about is administrative stuff. Who said what on the team or around the NHL. Give me the actual facts. Not saying his numbers are bad but he clearly under archived under the 6 goalie system. AV system really exposed him. He was always average at best and all these was just a hype and NYC/MSG non-stop commercials of him. They tried to do the same this season, but it got to the point that it just starting to look funny, so they stopped. Even Joe stopped his constant admiration.

Alright, one last post, because I enjoy comedy, this was too good to give up. "What is his win %?" What was the quality of the team in front of him, where every player on the roster has been exchanged like 3 times (including the coaches!) since he arrived in New York, because apparently they weren't good enough? Only Lundqvist has remained. I wonder why? Why were Ozolinsh, Malik, Strudwick and Poti and other Cup quality players dumped? Probably because Lundqvist was merely average, while everyone else wasn't? Yet reason says the opposite is true of your opinion. What comes next? "Do you know when he was drafted?"

"All you talk about is 'administrative stuff' (like the opinion of other NHL players, vezina voters, Hasek's opinion, the opinion of the NYR staff, etc)". Yes, while everything you have come up with so far is your keen eye for the game and your own interpretation of selectively chosen statistics, that apparently holds more value than anything of what I have mentioned. I don't even have to mention statistics, since Lundqvist is among the absolute top of all goalies in the entire league since the lockout in the important categories. "That's because he has played so many games." Yes, of course! How could I miss that?

Do I even need to tell you rival fans agree in bunches that Lundqvist has been the best goaltender since the lockout? They must've said so just to spite you and keep the secret hidden and trick the Rangers to sign this contract. The plot thickens! "Give me the actual facts." Translation: "You must agree with my ridiculous opinion!"?

"Not saying he was bad (only average), but he underachieved." Yes, why didn't this merely average goalie win more Vezinas and why doesn't he have a cup yet? Why didn't he win the player polls for "toughest goalie to score on" with a wider margin? How could the Rangers miss the playoffs one year? How can Lundqvist be so average? I agree it's crazy how bad Hank has actually performed and how ridiculously few who have seen the truth.

"He was always average at best." Ok buddy, great facts you come up with here. I can read you know, you don't have to repeat yourself eight times. "Even Joe stopped with his constant admiration." Yes, maybe because Hank isn't playing that well right now? *gasp* A ludicrous theory, I know! But oh, that's right, that means if Joe has stopped praising him right now, it means he was never that good! Really! Because you're not only a hockey expert, you know Joe better than he knows himself.

Please stop, you're making my stomach hurt. Or do you have any more of your solid facts to bring to the discussion? I'm sure you can come up with a ton more if you just use your imagination a little bit more. Perhaps Sam Rosen's dog had stomach problems once and that probably means Hank is hyped to no end? Sam's dog was nervous the conspiracy would get out and he's a fan of Hank. Oh well, you have given Sam's dog chronic stomach problems, because you have revealed a great secret here and now. We better call The Times!

Now I actually feel kind of bad. I think I've had a long discussion and ridiculed a 12 year old. I apologize and will stop this charade now. Just tell me, who is a great, currently playing goalie in your humble expert opinion and rigorous analysis, if Lundqvist is average?

Please explain that "little bit more to it than that" thing...

Alright, since you asked nicely: 1. Ridiculously small statistical sample that holds no quantitative merit. A minimum sample of 30 is usually considered to be required to be able to draw any conclusions or prognosis according to basic statistics. 2. Conscious coaching selection of team opposition that Talbot has faced (a.k.a. "sheltered minutes to ease the rookie in") 3. A noticable change in discipline and composure from teammates who played a more complete game to help the rookie out (also admitted by Talbot himself in interviews, I don't have the energy to dig this quote up as source)... I think that's enough.

Talbot is not exactly the first NHL goalie to perform impressively in his first number of starts of his career, nor will he be the last. He's talented and takes up alot of net, but until he has actually performed well when the tough gets going during at least 1-2 seasons with 60-80 games, when the biggest challenge will be in his own mind, not much can be said. Yet.

 

[TollefsenFan]

I dnt understand u People. Every goaltender can struggle from time to time. Halak struggled last year. Even Hiller has had bad periods. Miller to. What about Price, Fleury, Luongo, Bobrovsky, Bryz, Nabby, Anderson, Fasth etc Rinne sucked in Dinamo Minsk during the lockout. Its no big deal. Hank got an above 90% saveper. Sooner or later he will be good old hank.

 

[Nightshift]

I seem to remember Hank making saves in years past that he isn't making now. Even in a so called 6 goalie system he was still constantly peppered with high quality shots.

 

[TollefsenFan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugrimugri
The core that is supposed to form the backbone of the team has managed to win 80% of the games when Talbot has been appointed to be the starter..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp
It's certainly not that simple, there's a little bit more to it than that. If you believe it's that simple, go ahead.

---

Please explain that "little bit more to it than that" thing.


As I posted a little earlier, I don't expect that the rest of the Rangers are overwhelmed and jumping with joy when an underperforming Hankie gets a significant payraise for the next 7 years. It might be a problem that will be significant regarding Hankie's NYR future games as well.

The rest of the team is so ****ing bad that they should ****. The forwards cant score and the Ds cant deffend. Hank deserves his pay, because he made the Stanley cup playoffs several times, not this team. This team would be like Florida without hank. A crappy and boooooring team.

 

[McD27]

Probably just a coincidence that hankie struggles without the 6 goalie system. It's only 30 games. The truth should come out soon. We will never win a cup with him. Not because he's not one of the best goalies in the NHL. He is, or at least he was. But to allocate such a large % of the cap to a goalie for the next 7 years kills any chance at adding depth that's needed for a cup run. As a life long ranger fan, I was disappointed that he did not give us a hometown discount especially since slats was quite generous with his last contract.

In response to the title of this thread, my take is that the new system exposed Hank (and maybe the smaller pads). That's the hell he's going thru. Funny thing is he may've been the one that kicked torts out of town with his exit interview.

 

[OnlyTruth]

He won Olympic gold With sweden as their starting goaltender in 2006. In the 2011-12 season he had a gaa 1,97. He has had 92save % in 5 Seasons (even last season). '

Avs system? Dont forget that Av is not good at organizing a good defense. He failed in Vancouver and he will fail in NYR.

That All Star game(Olympic) means little to me, but I got say that he gave it all. BTW, he came back injured from there and everything went down for him.

Check out his S% after Olympics, even some where he was Vezina finalist because of # of wins, 6 goalie system and lots of hype:

Season 2006-2007 - 10th in NHL
Season 2007-2008 - 18th in NHL
Season 2008-2009 - 12th in NHL

 

[Chimpradamus]

Is Hank struggling because of the new "offensive" system? Who wouldn't, when all the new "offensive" system means in actual terms is: loosen up defensively and give the puck up everywhere where you absolutely shouldn't (as always, the constant low hockey IQ on this team is a astonishing), while managing to brag that you actually score more than Buffalo. Yay. 6th in goals against in the conference is not that terrible, considering the circumstances and the actual performance. Tied 3rd from last in goals scored while sacrificing defense is a joke. Torts had more solid defense while scoring just as much... errm, little. It sure wasn't pretty to watch the "Eeeeeek, get the puck out of the zone, get it oooouuuut!" for half the games, but at least it lead to a playoff spot. Neither is the roster quality that pretty and never has been since the lockout, that's the truth.

The own goals pinballed off the own players have continuted to pile up. The defensive zone has turned into a shooting gallery. The offensive struggles continue to be a huge problem. An "offensive" system where the team is just as bad offensively and much worse defensively is not a winning culture, neither is it an improvement whatsoever. Hank is struggling, but what the heck do you call the performance of the supposed teammates out there? Or the coach? Or the GM?

AV has realized this NYR team cannot play offensive hockey, just as Renney did, just as Torts did. The defensemen are generally brutal at handling the puck (Staal losing an eye didn't help and Girardi is just terrible at this while eating big minutes), which is key if you want to turn the transition into lethality. How many surgical stretch passes have you seen through the neutral zone to gain the offensive zone on the rush, with proper puck possession? Like five?

The NYR has a bunch of defensive defenseman that can put themselves in arguably good defensive positions but don't know that there's more to defense than where the puck currently is. And as soon as they get the puck, they will turn it over more often than not. They can't pinch for crap. The only exception is McD and usually Strålman.

The forwards just look lost. How can they be creative if they have no creativity? Zuccarello who some argued shouldn't even be re-signed is the only positive surprise, together with Kreider. Nash has his spin move, that's it and everybody and their mother knows it now. Richards brings it, occasionally. Callahan looks like he just wants to quit hockey.

The team is in a sorry state right now. While the team is usually in a sorry state, Hank hasn't managed to save the train wreck like he usually has to and does. The new "offensive" system hasn't been a help, it has tried to play hockey according to the flaws of the players (especially the defensemen), not their strengths. It's ridiculous and that's why AV has told Sather: this isn't going to cut it, I can't play offensive hockey without the players to do it.

That's why we'll probably see some more grinding "Eeeeeeek!" hockey soon if AV wants to keep his job and pray Hank gets back to his old self to hold the fort.

 

[OnlyTruth]

Is Hank struggling because of the new "offensive" system? Who wouldn't, when all the new "offensive" system means in actual terms is: loosen up defensively and give the puck up everywhere where you absolutely shouldn't (as always, the constant low hockey IQ on this team is a astonishing), while managing to brag that you actually score more than Buffalo. Yay. 6th in goals against in the conference is not that terrible. Tied 3rd from last in goals scored while sacrificing defense is a joke. Torts had more solid defense while scoring just as much... errm, little. It sure wasn't pretty to watch the "Eeeeeek, get the puck out of the zone, get it oooouuuut!" for half the games, at least it lead to a playoff spot. Neither is the roster quality that pretty and never has been since the lockout, that's the truth.

The own goals pinballed off the own players have continuted to pile up. The defensive zone has turned into a shooting gallery. The offensive struggles continue to be a huge problem.

An "offensive" system where the team is just as bad offensively and much worse defensively is not a winning culture. If Hank is struggling, then what the heck do you call the performance of the supposed defensemen out there?

AV have realized this NYR team cannot play offensive hockey, just as Renney did, just as Torts did. The defensemen are generally brutal at handling the puck, which is key if you want to turn the transition into lethality. The NYR has a bunch of defensive defenseman that can put themselves in arguably good defensive positions but don't know that there's more to defense than where the puck currently is. And as soon as they get the puck, they will turn it over more often than not. They can't pinch for crap. The only exception is McD and usually Strålman.

The forwards just looks lost. How can they be creative if they have no creativity? Nash has his spin move, that's it and everybody and their mother knows it now. Richards brings it, occasionally. Callahan looks like he just wants to quit hockey.

The team is in a sorry state right now. While the team is usually in a sorry state, Hank hasn't managed to save the train wreck like he usually has to and does. The new "offensive" system hasn't been a help, it has tried to play hockey up to the flaws of the players. It's ridiculous and that's why AV has told Sather: this isn't going to cut it, I can't play offensive hockey without the players to do it.

So please tell me then, why does AV system works when Talbot is in net? Ah sorry, I forgot Talbot doesn't play great teams like Ils.

 

[TollefsenFan]

That All Star game(Olympic) means little to me, but I got say that he gave it all. BTW, he came back injured from there and everything went down for him.

Check out his S% after Olympics, even some where he was Vezina finalist because of # of wins, 6 goalie system and lots of hype:

Season 2006-2007 - 10th in NHL
Season 2007-2008 - 18th in NHL
Season 2008-2009 - 12th in NHL

He had 92%save in severals Seasons after the Olympics in 2006. Can u please name a goalie from 2006-today thats been more consistent and better than Hank.

 

[aufheben]

Well for one thing, teams play better in front of their back ups. All teams. It's just how it is.

 

[McD27]

Well for one thing, teams play better in front of their back ups. All teams. It's just how it is.

We played so well in front of our first backup this year that he decided to retire.

 

[aufheben]

You know what, if you don't see it, I don't know what to tell you.

Seriously, if you're playing hockey and your back up is in, you're not going to play a bit hard/smarter?

 

[OnlyTruth]

We played so well in front of our first backup this year that he decided to retire.

 

[TollefsenFan]

So please tell me then, why does AV system works when Talbot is in net? Ah sorry, I forgot Talbot doesn't play great teams like Ils.

Small sample size. Luongo failed under Av and now Hank. Both of them considered to be elite goalies failed under AV. In both cases the backup became the number 1. (Schneider and now Talbot) Last season under AV Luongo sucked, this season he is a 92% ish goalie. Not because of Torts, but because AV cant Coach defense.

 

[OnlyTruth]

Small sample size. Luongo failed under Av and now Hank. Both of them considered to be elite goalies failed under AV. In both cases the backup became the number 1. (Schneider and now Talbot) Last season under AV Luongo sucked, this season he is a 92% ish goalie. Not because of Torts, but because AV cant Coach defense.

I find it hard to believe that the entire game system magically changes when a backup steps into net. Maintaining two structural systems would be a logistical nightmare.

 

[TollefsenFan]

I find it hard to believe that the entire game system magically changes when a backup steps into net. Maintaining two structural systems would be a logistical nightmare.

The backups play fewer games. Gets alot of rest. Not only physicaly but the Whole mental thing. The starting goaltender got alot of pressure from the fans, media, Coach etc. Before every game he uses alot of energy to focus on the game Ahead of him. The backup on the other hand is a no-name that noone expects anything from. He also has a more exp goalie to help him prepare. In this case Hank helps Talbot.

U just cant compare the 1st and 2nd goalie. The Avs traded Anderson to the Senators and Hoped Budaj or someone else would step up. What happend? The avs played so bad. So bad that even a KHL team would crush them. U better have a rly good plan if u trade an elitegoalie. Talbot has no exp at this Level. Its a huuuuge gamble to trade hank and go for him.

 

[OnlyTruth]

The backups play fewer games. Gets alot of rest. Not only physicaly but the Whole mental thing. The starting goaltender got alot of pressure from the fans, media, Coach etc. Before every game he uses alot of energy to focus on the game Ahead of him. The backup on the other hand is a no-name that noone expects anything from. He also has a more exp goalie to help him prepare. In this case Hank helps Talbot.

U just cant compare the 1st and 2nd goalie. The Avs traded Anderson to the Senators and Hoped Budaj or someone else would step up. What happend? The avs played so bad. So bad that even a KHL team would crush them. U better have a rly good plan if u trade an elitegoalie. Talbot has no exp at this Level. Its a huuuuge gamble to trade hank and go for him.

So why there so many #1 goalies on other teams who are doing good with that mental pressure? Hank goes at the rate of 1-2 soft goals per game. I don't think your logic can justify or defend that.

I do understand though the mental issue point to some extend, but I expect the best goalie in the world with 8.5m contract to focus a bit better. It is not an excuse, but more like an apology.

 

[TollefsenFan]

So why there so many #1 goalies on other teams who are doing good with that mental pressure? Hank goes at the rate of 1-2 soft goals per game. I don't think your logic can justify or defend that.

I do understand though the mental issue point to some extend, but I expect the best goalie in the world with 8.5m contract to focus a bit better. It is not an excuse, but more like an apology.

Wrong. Halak and Hiller struggled last year. Fasth started alot of games because Hiller wasnt as good as he used to be. This year Fasth hasnt been good at all and Hiller is the number one again. Fasth has been replaced by Andersen. Thats the dif between an elite goalie and a backup. Rinne was horrible for Dinamo Minsk. Believe me i watched some of those games. So the Things is that u cant judge a goalie based on a few bad games.

This teams problem isnt Hank, but coaching.

Edit: Fleury, Bryz, Ward, Howard, Price, the monster, Budaj etc struggle from time to time.