Speculation: What teams need to move cap before the start of the season

[Toggel]

No it doesn't. "As close to the cap as possible", not over the cap.

Jason Gregor from TSN1260 seems to say they have to be cap compliant before anyone is put onto LTIR.

This is still my thinking meaning Det/PIT will have to shed 3-4 Mil before they can put people on LTIR.

 

[Ishad]

No it doesn't. "As close to the cap as possible", not over the cap.

You can lti on October 11th. You have to be compliant by 5pm. So yes you can lti before the compliance deadlines

 

[KGL]

You can lti on October 11th. You have to be compliant by 5pm. So yes you can lti before the compliance deadlines

Being able to place a player on LTIR before the deadline doesn't mean you can be over the cap when you put someone on LTIR. If a team is at or near the cap limit before the deadline, then there's no reason they can't put someone on LTIR. If a team is over the cap, however, they have to become cap compliant.

 

[Ishad]

Being able to place a player on LTIR before the deadline doesn't mean you can be over the cap when you put someone on LTIR. If a team is at or near the cap limit before the deadline, then there's no reason they can't put someone on LTIR. If a team is over the cap, however, they have to become cap compliant.

Right they become cap compliant by placing injured players on the lti.

 

[Mikeshane]

Who do they have that they can put on LTIR? Also if anyone can answer this for me, as I've never fully understood how this works, but do teams need to have 23 players on their active roster counting against the cap at all times? I only ask because Anaheim only has 7.5M cap space with 20 contracts on the active roster. So if they need to carry 23 against the cap then they will have even less than 7.5M to sign Rakell and Lindholm.

If they're a budget team like their fans are constantly claiming than Nate Thompson's 1.6 million LTIR will do little to nothing to help their money problems.

 

[KGL]

Right they become cap compliant by placing injured players on the lti.

That's not how it works. Every year there are teams who send players down that they want on their team and keep players up who they don't want on the team so they can be cap compliant and as close to the cap limit as possible, then they place their player on LTIR and make the changes they want to make (Calling up the players they want, sending down the players they don't).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If they're a budget team like their fans are constantly claiming than Nate Thompson's 1.6 million LTIR will do little to nothing to help their money problems.

It will if it's insured.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

tb needs to clear cap, ana needs to clear salary (or not sign lindholm and rakell)

 

[mouser]

No it doesn't. "As close to the cap as possible", not over the cap.

Teams can exercise the LTIR exception before day 1 of the regular season. As McKenzie acknowledges in the 2nd tweet.

The formulas for how much salary a team can exceed the cap by as a result of the LTIR exception differ depending on whether the Exception is exercised before or after the start of the regular season.

Teams have to be cap compliant on Oct 11th, however that can include exercising a LTIR Exception. If a team does that before the start of the season then that teams maximum salary cap amount for the regular season is whatever the roster cap hit was on Oct 11th when the Exception was exercised.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

That's not accurate. Teams must be compliant before putting players on LTIR.

Nope.

Look at the last tweet that you posted...

 

[mouser]

It will if it's insured.

I can almost guarantee you his contract is not insured. Can't say that with 100% confidence since who knows what extra supplemental insurance the team purchased. So I'll limit my belief to only 99% confidence that the contract isn't insured.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I can almost guarantee you his contract is not insured. Can't say that with 100% confidence since who knows what extra supplemental insurance the team purchased. So I'll limit my belief to only 99% confidence that the contract isn't insured.

Doesn't the league still reimburse like 80% if they apply going that route assuming he's hurt for the necessary time? Also, why wouldn't they insure the contract? That makes no sense.

 

[Ridley Simon]

As I understand it--

Team X has 76m in salaries. Cap is 74m today.

Player Y plays for Team X and has a salary of 6m a year.

Player Y is hurt and can be put on LTIR

Player Y goes on LTIR, giving Team X a 70m cap stance for purposes of adding players. So 4m in salaries can be added to allow team to filed a squad back to 74m cap.

Team X may not "bank" any safe while Player Y is on LTIR. They have 4m to play with at the start of each and every day (unless filled the previous Day) until Player Y is healthy.

When Player Y is cleared to join Team X's NHL roster, Team X must shed 6m in salary immediately, all else stated above remains static.

 

[mouser]

Doesn't the league still reimburse like 80% if they apply going that route assuming he's hurt for the necessary time? Also, why wouldn't they insure the contract? That makes no sense.

The league itself doesn't reimburse anything. The NHL has a league-wide injury insurance group policy with a single insurer. It may have been tweaked since the last news of it was made public, at that time it worked this way:

Every team is required to pay an insurance premium based on their 5 largest contracts. The report didn't clarify how "largest" is defined. It likely goes by how much total salary is remaining on the contract, rather then what the annual average is, since the insurance policy would cover future seasons if a player is injured over a multiple season period.

Each team can then choose how to spread their insurance coverage among 5 to 7 players. Presumably either insuring 5 players 100%, or 6-7 players with differing % amounts.

The insurance premiums and contracts are calculated at the start of each season. Though if a player remains injured from a prior season that insurance policy would continue to pay out. The insurer can also proactively decline to insure a player against a recurrence of a prior injury, such notifications also due annually at the time of premium assessment. For example, Sidney Crosby's contract is insured, but it might not be insured against another concussion.

Teams can purchase additional insurance, though there have been many reports it is prohibitively expensive and rare that teams do so. Lastly, the insurance only kicks in after the player has missed 41+ games. So even if for example Nate Thompson's contract were insured, the Ducks wouldn't see any relief until January.


The TLDR summary: Unless a player is among the 5-7 largest contracts on their team it's highly unlikely the contract is insured against injury.

 

[mouser]

Team X has 76m in salaries. Cap is 74m today.

Player Y plays for Team X and has a salary of 6m a year.

Player Y is hurt and can be put on LTIR

Player Y goes on LTIR, giving Team X a 70m cap stance for purposes of adding players. So 4m in salaries can be added to allow team to filed a squad back to 74m cap.

Team X may not "bank" any safe while Player Y is on LTIR. They have 4m to play with at the start of each and every day (unless filled the previous Day) until Player Y is healthy.

Well, first of all it's not possible to have $76m in salaries during the regular season against a $74m cap. So if the team wanted to invoke the LTIR Exception during the regular season that team would have to find some way to get down to $74m before putting the $6m player on LTIR. The amount of relief gained during the regular season would depend on what the team cap was at the time the Exception was exercised.

If that same situation happened during training camp, and the team elected to invoke the LTIR Exception on the $6m player before the start of the regular season, then that Exception would be considered to fully satisfy the cap overage. The team would be able to maintain a total cap of $76m through the regular season--including the injured $6m player. In effect the team would be gaining $2m in cap relief from the LTIR Exception in that scenario.

When Player Y is cleared to join Team X's NHL roster, Team X must shed 6m in salary immediately, all else stated above remains static.

Oddly, there's no requirement in the CBA that a team must clear space to reactivate a player off LTIR. The CBA simply states a team cannot activate the player without clearing space, but doesn't indicate that teams are obligated to do so. If that situation were to come to pass where a team parked a now healthy player on LTIR I wouldn't be surprised to see a grievance filed.

 

[taylorjonl]

That's not accurate. Teams must be compliant before putting players on LTIR.

This is not correct, you can LTIR a player before the season starts, you just get less cap flexibility.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Well, first of all it's not possible to have $76m in salaries during the regular season against a $74m cap.

You could have a few contracts where players were paid more in one year than another, and thus their cap hits would be lower than their salaries for that year. Rieder for AZ just signed one like that.

Oddly, there's no requirement in the CBA that a team must clear space to reactivate a player off LTIR. The CBA simply states a team cannot activate the player without clearing space, but doesn't indicate that teams are obligated to do so. If that situation were to come to pass where a team parked a now healthy player on LTIR I wouldn't be surprised to see a grievance filed.

Lou's Devils did this a few years back, I forgot with who. Someone else coincidentally "got hurt".

 

[Halla]

Anaheim doesn't have to clear cap before the start of their season. They aren't over the cap.

so they arent gonna sign lindholm and rackell?

 

[mouser]

You could have a few contracts where players were paid more in one year than another, and thus their cap hits would be lower than their salaries for that year. Rieder for AZ just signed one like that.

I was referring to averaged salaries (cap hits), not actual salaries that season, since that was the context of the discussion.

 

[Skizwald]

Teams can exercise the LTIR exception before day 1 of the regular season. As McKenzie acknowledges in the 2nd tweet.

The formulas for how much salary a team can exceed the cap by as a result of the LTIR exception differ depending on whether the Exception is exercised before or after the start of the regular season.

Teams have to be cap compliant on Oct 11th, however that can include exercising a LTIR Exception. If a team does that before the start of the season then that teams maximum salary cap amount for the regular season is whatever the roster cap hit was on Oct 11th when the Exception was exercised.

Well put. I was trying to figure out how to say it. I have an understanding of it, but couldn't put it into words properly.

I remember learning about it a couple years ago when everyone thought the flyers were gonna be over the cap.

A team wants to get as close the cap as possible on the not including their ltir players. Any cap space not accounted for is lost.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Well, first of all it's not possible to have $76m in salaries during the regular season against a $74m cap. So if the team wanted to invoke the LTIR Exception during the regular season that team would have to find some way to get down to $74m before putting the $6m player on LTIR. The amount of relief gained during the regular season would depend on what the team cap was at the time the Exception was exercised.

If that same situation happened during training camp, and the team elected to invoke the LTIR Exception on the $6m player before the start of the regular season, then that Exception would be considered to fully satisfy the cap overage. The team would be able to maintain a total cap of $76m through the regular season--including the injured $6m player. In effect the team would be gaining $2m in cap relief from the LTIR Exception in that scenario.



Oddly, there's no requirement in the CBA that a team must clear space to reactivate a player off LTIR. The CBA simply states a team cannot activate the player without clearing space, but doesn't indicate that teams are obligated to do so. If that situation were to come to pass where a team parked a now healthy player on LTIR I wouldn't be surprised to see a grievance filed.

I never said during the season. It's for now. Like, right now.

Once season starts, I'm well aware of 74m cap.

 

[mouser]

I never said during the season. It's for now. Like, right now.

Once season starts, I'm well aware of 74m cap.

In that case, as I illustrated, the team in your example would not be able to add any more salary by exercising the LTIR Exception. They would be locked in at a $76m maximum cap, effectively gaining $2m in space through the Exception, although that gained space has already been used on the current roster.

 

[me2]

Teams can exercise the LTIR exception before day 1 of the regular season. As McKenzie acknowledges in the 2nd tweet.

The formulas for how much salary a team can exceed the cap by as a result of the LTIR exception differ depending on whether the Exception is exercised before or after the start of the regular season.

Teams have to be cap compliant on Oct 11th, however that can include exercising a LTIR Exception. If a team does that before the start of the season then that teams maximum salary cap amount for the regular season is whatever the roster cap hit was on Oct 11th when the Exception was exercised.

I've never understood why they bother with this. It seems to take a simple concept (salary cap with LTIR provisions) and add unnecessary complications that don't seem to do anything other than force teams to perform paper transactions by sending contracts up and down for a few hours one day once a year.

I love to know what loophole they were trying to stop.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Anaheim doesn't have to clear cap before the start of their season. They aren't over the cap.

I believe it has been covered the ducks have an internal cap of between 63 to 66--depending on the source and they are at 64 with two guys looking to get paid. The NHL cap maybe one thing---but teams have their own cap they work with

 

[nmbr_24]

That's not how it works. Every year there are teams who send players down that they want on their team and keep players up who they don't want on the team so they can be cap compliant and as close to the cap limit as possible, then they place their player on LTIR and make the changes they want to make (Calling up the players they want, sending down the players they don't).

A couple of years ago the Bruins had to put Marc Savard on LTIR to be cap compliant but I believe what happens is that they lose the ability to bank cap space for the entire year. That means any trade deadline deal has to have the same amount of money going out as what they are getting in return. Teams that have $2 million in cap space have the ability to acquire a $6 million contract at the deadline because that player's salary has less than $2 million remaining on it for the year, it also means that it is very difficult to replace players who are out with things like the flu or that are out day to day. I think there may be a provision where they can recall someone on an emergency basis but they have to clear it with the league every time they do it and it is not as simple as just calling up a player.

I believe the way it works is that if they put someone on LTIR at the beginning of the season and it puts them at $1 million over the cap, then that is all they will be able to exceed the cap by for the entire season since LTIR only allows the team to replace the injured players salary, it does not allow them to exceed the cap by the full amount of the salary. Having a player on before the season kind of sets the amount that they can go over the cap in stone if I understand it correctly.