What Team has the top future D corp ?

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Even if we count Byram, Samuelsson, Dahlin, and Power, I think I still give the edge to New Jersey. Byram is eerily similar to Chychrun in that the Sabres on power have a strong D, but too many similar pieces that the fit may not be there.

I genuinely don’t understand how you’d take New Jersey. What am I missing? Nemec and Hughes are big pieces, but they are pretty close to a wash with Power, and there’s an argument they are worse. None of the players in this equation are as good as Dahlin. Silayev has big potential. He’s also only the 10th pick. I wouldn’t be too sure of anything with him. Casey is the fourth guy I’m guessing. He’s not an elite prospect. Small PMD. Questionable if he’ll have a good enough offensive game for being 5’9. He’s the weak link in this discussion, even if Byram and Samuelsson are only second pair defensemen, which I’m not sure is their absolute ceilings.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I genuinely don’t understand how you’d take New Jersey. What am I missing? Nemec and Hughes are big pieces, but they are pretty close to a wash with Power, and there’s an argument they are worse. None of the players in this equation are as good as Dahlin. Silayev has big potential. He’s also only the 10th pick. I wouldn’t be too sure of anything with him. Casey is the fourth guy I’m guessing. He’s not an elite prospect. Small PMD. Questionable if he’ll have a good enough offensive game for being 5’9. He’s the weak link in this discussion, even if Byram and Samuelsson are only second pair defensemen, which I’m not sure is their absolute ceilings.

Careful, your hatred/bias is showing.

 

[Chainshot]

Careful, your hatred/bias is showing.

I mean, he has a point if we're including the 24-year olds that Dahlin and Samuelsson give the Sabres volume even if one is mild about the talent.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Careful, your hatred/bias is showing.

This is what’s wrong with this website. You tell the truth about the wrong thing and instead of people explaining why you’re wrong they lazily accuse you of being a hater or biased.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I mean, he has a point if we're including the 24-year olds that Dahlin and Samuelsson give the Sabres volume even if one is mild about the talent.

Right or wrong, the way he’s hand waving Silayev as “only the 10th pick” and then pumping Samuelsson, a 24yo second round pick who brings zero offense and crazy underwater advanced metrics, as someone that can be more than a four - I find that pretty hilarious.

I also don’t understand the part about Hughes/Nemec vs Power. How are the two of them going to be a wash with Power? Power is twice as good as both? Or is he saying Dahlin’s better, so even if one of Hughes/Nemec is better it doesn’t matter?

 

[Xirik]

This is what’s wrong with this website. You tell the truth about the wrong thing and instead of people explaining why you’re wrong they lazily accuse you of being a hater or biased.

Pot calling the kettle black.

Face it, you been biased against the Devils for years and no fan of the team will take any post you make serious no matter how "right" you think it is. Just like you probably think anytime a Devils fan talks about the Rangers you view them as biased.

 

[Wayfarer13]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1785341949924229581

Hughes was fine defensively 5v5. The team as a whole was murdered in empty net situations and gave up far and away the most in the league. And of course Hughes as a prime offensive defenseman was almost always on the ice in those situations.

According to https://morehockeystats.com/teams/en the 22 was the number of times Vancover was in a pulled goalie situation whether their goaltender or the opposition. They scored 6 times while allowing 8 goals in those 22 games.

 

[Guadana]

This is what’s wrong with this website. You tell the truth about the wrong thing and instead of people explaining why you’re wrong they lazily accuse you of being a hater or biased.

There are no truth. Luke was better than Dahlin in his third year. Nemec is ahead of many players. He is next to Seider who has great defensive potential and 45-60 points potential. So you dont have any defenseman with Silayev profile.

Sorry, but its Jersey. Every body told that Devils drafted Shakir because theu losted Schneider but now it more obvious that its Rangers who should drafted Shakir first and f-cked up in the moment with draft "big physical" defenseman with average iq, average decision making and weak first step.

But of course its not about rangers. Rangers are not top defensive team now, they will not be in 5 years too. Devils? Of course there are no guarantee, but trajectory of Luke, Simon and Silayev are very good. Their skills are there too. So argument is obvious.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

There are no truth. Luke was better than Dahlin in his third year. Nemec is ahead of many players. He is next to Seider who has great defensive potential and 45-60 points potential. So you dont have any defenseman with Silayev profile.

Sorry, but its Jersey. Every body told that Devils drafted Shakir because theu losted Schneider but now it more obvious that its Rangers who should drafted Shakir first and f-cked up in the moment with draft "big physical" defenseman with average iq, average decision making and weak first step.

But of course its not about rangers. Rangers are not top defensive team now, they will not be in 5 years too. Devils? Of course there are no guarantee, but trajectory of Luke, Simon and Silayev are very good. Their skills are there too. So argument is obvious.

Correct me if I have it wrong, Devils fans like Nemec better than Hughes. Why not compare Dahlin to Nemec and Hughes to Power?

Because when you look at it through that lens, Power and Hughes are same draft and have been compared for years. It makes for a very clean comparison. While I could totally understand slightly preferring Hughes, I just don't see how it's remotely a clear preference towards Hughes.

As for Nemec vs. Dahlin, well I can see how Nemec could possibly become that level of player one day, but Dahlin already is a Norris contender. Yes, two years apart in age, but unless there's some gap between what they can be eventually (which I again don't see how that would exist here), I think you go with the one that is at a level than the one that could some day be at a level.

And you are being unnecessarily hostile. This has nothing to do with who anyone roots for. I can play that game quite easily too, but I won't. This is what is wrong with some on this website. They can't just argue the points. They need to always accuse you of having some agenda for or against a team when you give your honest opinion.

 

[Guadana]

Correct me if I have it wrong, Devils fans like Nemec better than Hughes. Why not compare Dahlin to Nemec and Hughes to Power?

Bad argument and not an argument at all. Different fans likes different players.
Hughes was compared to Dahlin because both are more offensive oriented. Nemec is more two way oriented.

Because when you look at it through that lens, Power and Hughes are same draft and have been compared for years. It makes for a very clean comparison. While I could totally understand slightly preferring Hughes, I just don't see how it's remotely a clear preference towards Hughes.

Beniers is from the same draft. As Edvinsson. Comparing Edvinsson with Hughes right with the straight face is bad decision. Different pros and cons.
We can compare Power. But why should I play in your game?
Because I will compare Hughes with Dahlin - both are offensive oriented with offensive oriented role. And I will compare Power with Nemec. And I will prefer Nemec. May be Power will have better offensive ceiling but he is nowhere as good in defensive game. Nemec is better with his first step, he is more mobile from the start, his stick work without the puck is better, overall his IQ is better without the puck. Reason why I compared him with Seider. Because thats the player Nemec is more closer.

So I have better Nemec and Hughes who has better season than Dahlin had at the same stage.

Silayev... There are no Silayevs in Buffalo organisation. And like I see you turned to phylosophical speech from talking about him.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Bad argument and not an argument at all. Different fans likes different players.
Hughes was compared to Dahlin because both are more offensive oriented. Nemec is more two way oriented.



Beniers is from the same draft. As Edvinsson. Comparing Edvinsson with Hughes right with the straight face is bad decision. Different pros and cons.
We can compare Power. But why should I play in your game?
Because I will compare Hughes with Dahlin - both are offensive oriented with offensive oriented role. And I will compare Power with Nemec. And I will prefer Nemec. May be Power will have better offensive ceiling but he is nowhere as good in defensive game. Nemec is better with his first step, he is more mobile from the start, his stick work without the puck is better, overall his IQ is better without the puck. Reason why I compared him with Seider. Because thats the player Nemec is more closer.

So I have better Nemec and Hughes who has better season than Dahlin had at the same stage.

Silayev... There are no Silayevs in Buffalo organisation. And like I see you turned to phylosophical speech from talking about him.

I think your argument takes a lot more projection and involves absolute best case scenarios. The Sabres players are already at a pretty good level and they aren't that old either. They can still get better. They are all top 4 defensemen. The Devils players are like 2 top 4 defensemen that were rookies last year and two who've never played an NHL shift. If Silayev becomes Chara and Casey hits his potential, sure I guess, but I think you are presenting what has to be the absolute best case and the Sabres argument is a lot more straightforward.

 

[dgibb10]

According to https://morehockeystats.com/teams/en the 22 was the number of times Vancover was in a pulled goalie situation whether their goaltender or the opposition. They scored 6 times while allowing 8 goals in those 22 games.

Luke Hughes does not play for vancouver

 

[Drew4u]

All you guys need is to pull up Evolving Hockey GAR.

Power > Dahlin > Nemec > Hughes

Power 10.9 GAR
Hughes 1.1 GAR
Dahlin 5 GAR
Nemec 4.9 GAR

There I actually provided objective proof based off statistical models to answer the question. Pretty easy if you ask me.

 

[Drew4u]

Also don't tell me you think Seider is good defensively. Pls stop, he was one of the worst players defensively in this league last season. Again look up evolving hockey for actual proof instead of garbage opinions that come from nowhere.

 

[Guadana]

I think your argument takes a lot more projection and involves absolute best case scenarios. The Sabres players are already at a pretty good level and they aren't that old either. They can still get better. They are all top 4 defensemen. The Devils players are like 2 top 4 defensemen that were rookies last year and two who've never played an NHL shift. If Silayev becomes Chara and Casey hits his potential, sure I guess, but I think you are presenting what has to be the absolute best case and the Sabres argument is a lot more straightforward.

I would prefer Nemec over Power. He is closer to be better now.
I would not prefer Dahlin over Hughes now. But Hughes is better than Dahlin was at this stage.
Byram is already show as his good sides as his bad sides. And some limitations.
And noone has Silayev combo of skating, size and defensive work at his age.
So again - I understand arguments for Sabres. But again - arguments for Devils are there. Devils defensive players are younger and showing better game on their stage of career.
So the argument "they are already more ready product" isnt working really because every defense with more younger players is projecting as weaker only because they are no as ready yet. SO why we are having this conversation at all? Logic mistake. We are talking about years from now.

I dont think Silayev will become Chara. He will be different player. And if he will become better version of himself - as Hughes and Nemec, than this team will not need in Casey to be really something. It will be an excessive luxury. If not - even if Casey will adapt to NHL, they will not be better than some other teams.

So the ceiling is on the Devils side. Of course the floor is not, because two players are not NHLers. two players are yesterday rookies.


Overall both power and Dahlin are very good defensemen. May be Im not a fan of Byram. I think it will be interesting to watch how both teams will develop their defensive talents. Of course personally im little biased because Im a Devil fan. But mostly its objectively unfair to not put players like Hughes or Nemec with Silayev in one of the top defensive group. And their fit is great - Nemec is very smart two way defenseman, Hughes is very talented offensive oriented, I would say - very gifted player. and Silayev have everything to be top-defensive defenseman in the league. Im little bit skeptical about his offensive potential, but with Hughes, Nemec, Casey and some other two way left defensemen in the prospect pool I mostly dont care about Silayevs offensive potential.

Also don't tell me you think Seider is good defensively. Pls stop, he was one of the worst players defensively in this league last season. Again look up evolving hockey for actual proof instead of garbage opinions that come from nowhere.

Bad season from young defenseman who played 22.5 min on the bad team. Very surprising.

Would be better to watch games.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Also don't tell me you think Seider is good defensively. Pls stop, he was one of the worst players defensively in this league last season. Again look up evolving hockey for actual proof instead of garbage opinions that come from nowhere.

Honestly one of the dumbest things I've read online for a while.

 

[Wayfarer13]

Luke Hughes does not play for vancouver

My bad

 

[Satanphonehome]

Since much of the debate for Jersey up-thread seems to be based around Hughes' numbers as a 20 year-old, let's compare these 20-year-old seasons:

Games played:

• Hughes 82
• Power 79
• Nemec 60
• Byram 30 (concussion)

Goals:

• Hughes 9
• Byram 5
• Power 4
• Nemec 3

ES Goals:

• Byram 5
• Hughes 5
• Power 4
• Nemec 3

Points:

• Hughes 47
• Power 35
• Nemec 19
• Byram 17

ES Points

• Power 26
• Hughes 22
• Nemec 17
• Byram 16

Points/games played:

• Byram .57
• Hughes .57
• Power .44
• Nemec .32

ES Points/games played:

• Byram .53
• Power .44
• Nemec .28
• Hughes .27

Ice time/games played:

• Power 23:48
• Hughes 21:28
• Nemec 19:52
• Byram 18:48

ES ice time/games played:

• Power 20:44
• Hughes 17:56
• Nemec 17:44
• Byram 17:33

Hits:

• Byram 53
• Power 27
• Hughes 24
• Nemec 22

Blocked shots:

• Nemec 105
• Power 86
• Hughes 55
• Byram 26

Giveaways:

• Byram 11
• Nemec 25
• Power 52
• Hughes 69

Hits per 60:

• Byram 5.63
• Nemec 1.10
• Power 0.86
• Hughes 0.81

Blocked shots per 60:

• Nemec 5.28
• Byram 2.76
• Power 2.74
• Hughes 1.87

Giveaways per 60:

• Byram 1.16
• Nemec 1.25
• Power 1.65
• Hughes 2.35

5on5 SA for %:

• Hughes 54.5%
• Byram 53.2%
• Power 52.2%
• Nemec 49.7%

On-ice ES goal %:

• Byram 56.4%
• Power 53.4%
• Nemec 49.1%
• Hughes 43.0%

To me, it looks like any apparent upper hand Hughes may have among these 4 as a 20-year-old is pretty much solely a function of the points he collected running his team's top PP, an opportunity none of the others had available to them.

Looking through the rest of the numbers, I don't see a clear advantage to either team.

I take the quality of the Devils other high picks (Silayev, Casey) over the quantity of those in the Sabres' stable (Johnson, Samuelsson, Kleber, Strbak), with the caveat that Samuelsson is the only name in that group actually proven to be a capable NHLer.

But the fact the Sabres still can play the Dahlin trump card on top of the rest makes Buffalo the easy choice for me.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I’m a little surprised Carolina hasn’t even gotten a mention. They lost a couple guys this year, but still retained talent and have some guys who will be NHL ready shortly.

Also, Colorado has to be on the list purely for having Makar, who looks to be a generational talent.

Carolina actually has a very good prospect pool (most playing in Europe) that should assure compentency beyond their current very good core (there are others beyond this that could hit too):

LD
Alexander Nikishin
Simon Forsmark
Vladimir Grudinin

RD
Scott Morrow
Charles-Alexis Legault
Aleksi Heimosalmi
Joel Nystrom
Dominick Badinka

 

[Lou Bloom]

Since much of the debate for Jersey up-thread seems to be based around Hughes' numbers as a 20 year-old, let's compare these 20-year-old seasons:

Games played:

• Hughes 82
• Power 79
• Nemec 60
• Byram 30 (concussion)

Goals:

• Hughes 9
• Byram 5
• Power 4
• Nemec 3

ES Goals:

• Byram 5
• Hughes 5
• Power 4
• Nemec 3

Points:

• Hughes 47
• Power 35
• Nemec 19
• Byram 17

ES Points

• Power 26
• Hughes 22
• Nemec 17
• Byram 16

Points/games played:

• Byram .57
• Hughes .57
• Power .44
• Nemec .32

ES Points/games played:

• Byram .53
• Power .44
• Nemec .28
• Hughes .27

Ice time/games played:

• Power 23:48
• Hughes 21:28
• Nemec 19:52
• Byram 18:48

ES ice time/games played:

• Power 20:44
• Hughes 17:56
• Nemec 17:44
• Byram 17:33

Hits:

• Byram 53
• Power 27
• Hughes 24
• Nemec 22

Blocked shots:

• Nemec 105
• Power 86
• Hughes 55
• Byram 26

Giveaways:

• Byram 11
• Nemec 25
• Power 52
• Hughes 69

Hits per 60:

• Byram 5.63
• Nemec 1.10
• Power 0.86
• Hughes 0.81

Blocked shots per 60:

• Nemec 5.28
• Byram 2.76
• Power 2.74
• Hughes 1.87

Giveaways per 60:

• Byram 1.16
• Nemec 1.25
• Power 1.65
• Hughes 2.35

5on5 SA for %:

• Hughes 54.5%
• Byram 53.2%
• Power 52.2%
• Nemec 49.7%

On-ice ES goal %:

• Byram 56.4%
• Power 53.4%
• Nemec 49.1%
• Hughes 43.0%

To me, it looks like any apparent upper hand Hughes may have among these 4 as a 20-year-old is pretty much solely a function of the points he collected running his team's top PP, an opportunity none of the others had available to them.

Looking through the rest of the numbers, I don't see a clear advantage to either team.

I take the quality of the Devils other high picks (Silayev, Casey) over the quantity of those in the Sabres' stable (Johnson, Samuelsson, Kleber, Strbak), with the caveat that Samuelsson is the only name in that group actually proven to be a capable NHLer.

But the fact the Sabres still can play the Dahlin trump card on top of the rest makes Buffalo the easy choice for me.

Byram is 23 and has had his development stagnated due to injuries. He’s not on the same tier as Power, Hughes and Nemec.

 

[Satanphonehome]

Byram is 23 and has had his development stagnated due to injuries. He’s not on the same tier as Power, Hughes and Nemec.

Are you saying essentially that Byram is not going to get any better because of the bold, while the other three are because the bold won't happen to them?

Because in the season that just finished Byram statistically is very much on the same tier, disregarding Hughes PP numbers.

Byram has played only 164 NHL games and plenty of NHL defencemen get better at 23, 24 and 25. I think he's got plenty of room for growth.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Columbus
Werenski, Severson, Jiricek, Provorov (if they extend him), Ceulemans, Mateychuk, Svozil, Knazko

 

[Lou Bloom]

Are you saying essentially that Byram is not going to get any better because of the bold, while the other three are because the bold won't happen to them?

Because in the season that just finished Byram statistically is very much on the same tier, disregarding Hughes PP numbers.

Byram has played only 164 NHL games and plenty of NHL defencemen get better at 23, 24 and 25. I think he's got plenty of room for growth.

I’m saying Hughes, Nemec and Power are all younger and have more potential for future growth in there game. Do you think Casey Mittelstadt is also pulling a Hughes, Nemec or Power back in a trade?

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Carolina actually has a very good prospect pool (most playing in Europe) that should assure compentency beyond their current very good core (there are others beyond this that could hit too):

LD
Alexander Nikishin
Simon Forsmark
Vladimir Grudinin

RD
Scott Morrow
Charles-Alexis Legault
Aleksi Heimosalmi
Joel Nystrom
Dominick Badinka

Agree. They’re set up to consistently be very good for a very long time.