What Team has the top future D corp ?

[DollardStLaurent]

We all knew this was coming. Of course you do lol

Are you accusing me of lying? The Devils, Rangers and Islanders games are broadcast on MSG and MSG+ - on Cablevision, channels 70 - 72. The Rangers on on 70 and the Devils and Islanders are on Channels 71 and 72. Where do you watch the Devils games?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Are you accusing me of lying? The Devils, Rangers and Islanders games are broadcast on MSG and MSG+ - on Cablevision, channels 70 - 72. The Rangers on on 70 and the Devils and Islanders are on Channels 71 and 72. Where do you watch the Devils games?

Probably a 1/3 of the time they’re playing at the same time.

 

[Imgoingtowork]

A mix of everything , size , skill , speed , offence , defence

 

[DollardStLaurent]

I'm skeptical a Rangers or Isles fan watches "most" of the NJ games. Especially last year when they were terrible and not an interesting team to watch. I'm sure you watch a few minutes here and there when it's between periods of the game for a team you like.

I watch Devils' games because I follow Bratt and Nemec. I was particularly interested a lot in Nemec to see how he was progressing. I think he's going to be a much better overall defender than Hughes who I believe will be a one trick pony.

 

[My3Sons]

I watch Devils' games because I follow Bratt and Nemec. I was particularly interested a lot in Nemec to see how he was progressing. I think he's going to be a much better overall defender than Hughes who I believe will be a one trick pony.

So then you realize both Nemec and Hughes were hung out to dry by NJ and forced to play way over their heads as rookies. You’d also realize that Ruff’s defensive system is quite messy and nobody excels in it if everyone on the ice can’t play it to perfection. I don’t disagree that Nemec is likely a better defensive player than Hughes over time but simply dismissing Hughes at 20 and all those Montreal defenders is short sighted. These kids would likely still be in college if they were not hockey players. If Quinn can figure out defense I’m sure Luke can as well.

 

[DollardStLaurent]

So then you realize both Nemec and Hughes were hung out to dry by NJ and forced to play way over their heads as rookies. You’d also realize that Ruff’s defensive system is quite messy and nobody excels in it if everyone on the ice can’t play it to perfection. I don’t disagree that Nemec is likely a better defensive player than Hughes over time but simply dismissing Hughes at 20 and all those Montreal defenders is short sighted. These kids would likely still be in college if they were not hockey players. If Quinn can figure out defense I’m sure Luke can as well.

I hope Luke will be able to figure out the D and not become another Karlsson, Gotisbehere or D'Angelo.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1785341949924229581

Hughes was fine defensively 5v5. The team as a whole was murdered in empty net situations and gave up far and away the most in the league. And of course Hughes as a prime offensive defenseman was almost always on the ice in those situations.

Being on the ice for 22 empty net goals against is kind of crazy. I wonder if that's some sort of record?

 

[Nocashstyle]

Are you accusing me of lying? The Devils, Rangers and Islanders games are broadcast on MSG and MSG+ - on Cablevision, channels 70 - 72. The Rangers on on 70 and the Devils and Islanders are on Channels 71 and 72. Where do you watch the Devils games?

Yes

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Montreal has Chicago and Anaheim beat.

Mailloux- AHL all star as a rookie
Hutson- hobey baker nominee twice
Reinbacher -5th overall and already two years pro.

Add Guhle who is a very young stud already.

Our bottom pairing guys will be a mix of seasoned youth(Engstrom- top pair SHL and only 21?), Xhekaj who’s a force . Even our remaining youth of Harris and Struble have top four potential.

We have poor forward depth, but our D corps will be top of the class

Zellweger was an ahl allstar as a rookie , 5 months younger than mailloux, and much more dominant in juniors/international play and ahl season

AHL:
Mailloux had 47 in 72
Zellweger had 37 in 44

Most people would take Mintyukov over Reinbacher I imagine as of right now.

Hutson is an X factor, but still has a lot of question marks how he will translate to nhl.

Luneau in Anaheim is also an X factor, dominate in juniors, looked pretty damn good in his nhl games unfortunately had health problems most of the year.

The rest can be argued all over…. Lacombe, vaakanainen, hinds, Warren, dioncicio, smith etc is a pretty deep pool.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Impossible to predict

 

[Xirik]

Being on the ice for 22 empty net goals against is kind of crazy. I wonder if that's some sort of record?

When your given the job of skating faster then the opponents shot from their end to save a would be goal these things happen,

 

[Bounces R Way]

Jeez I said New Jersey was my answer in my post and voted for them. Didn't know I was obligated to give L Hughes a handy too

You aren't wrong. That said, plus minus doesn't tell the story. A fair number of those goals against were scored when NJ had an empty net. A number also came on short handed goals against. Looks like his five on five plus minus was -4 based on natural stat trick (I'm looking at venue adjusted numbers so it may be a bit different). Moreover, at five on five, the majority of his zone starts were either in the neutral zone or defensive end. He did have a large number of ozone starts but overall they are roughly in a ratio of 5 in the ozone to 7 in the other two zones. He wasn't particularly sheltered. His advanced numbers were all pretty good on a bad team. Corsi, Fenwick, expected goals percentage were all above 50%. His PDO was low .988 which explains some of the goal disparity as well. He also played over 21 minutes per game on a bad team as a raw rookie. He had to drag around Brendan Smith as a partner at times as well. NJ didn't exactly set him up for success. Nonetheless you raise a fair point which is that he has to improve defensively. I'm sure he'd be the first guy to agree with you. Given his natural talent I would expect he will do fine with some experience and better coaching. All the tools are there.

I realize +- doesn't tell the whole story, it certainly tells part of one though. The giveaways in particular stand out with Hughes, but that's to be expected with a player that has the puck a lot. Really don't think 'needs improvement defensively' is some salacious accusation, Devils fan sites see the same thing New Jersey Devils-Are The Good and Bad Criticisms Of Luke Hughes Valid?

Experience and better coaching should help certainly. Not really a given however that he improves immensely, Dougie Hamilton has all the tools to be a great shutdown defender too but simply isn't. He's not really bad exactly but it's definitely still a flaw. Some players stay flawed.

Luke Hughes started 11.94% of his shifts in the ozone, and 9.77% of his shifts in the dzone.

A ratio of 1.22:1

NJDs overall ratio of ozone to dzone starts was 1.23:1

(5.07% ozone, 4.12% dzone)

Not sure where you're getting your info
per NST

Also btw

2.41 goals against/60 for luke 5v5.

Here are some notable dman to give up more goals/60

Every other devils dman
Miro Heiskanen
Brock Faber
Jake Sanderson
Owen Power
Cale Makar
etc

Luke's problem was actually scoring goals, not preventing them, and that stemmed from the fact that NJD struggled to finish their chances with him on the ice, sporting a 7.16% shooting%, and 0.8 xGoals/60 below expectation (18 goals below expectation total)


Luke actually gave up less 5v5 goals than every other devils dman last year.

His +/- comes from empty netters and the fact that NJD couldn't finish for shit with him on the ice 5v5 (18 goals below expectation, and a 7.16% shooting rate)

He gave up nearly 12 HDCA/60, which was the highest of any Devils dman and higher than any of the dmen you listed(although barely in Power's case). I just said he needs improvement defensively, not that he's a worthless bum. If you feel different that's fine. He was a rookie right out of college, that he still has some things to work on is not surprising at all.

 

[My3Sons]

Jeez I said New Jersey was my answer in my post and voted for them. Didn't know I was obligated to give L Hughes a handy too



I realize +- doesn't tell the whole story, it certainly tells part of one though. The giveaways in particular stand out with Hughes, but that's to be expected with a player that has the puck a lot. Really don't think 'needs improvement defensively' is some salacious accusation, Devils fan sites see the same thing New Jersey Devils-Are The Good and Bad Criticisms Of Luke Hughes Valid?

Experience and better coaching should help certainly. Not really a given however that he improves immensely, Dougie Hamilton has all the tools to be a great shutdown defender too but simply isn't. He's not really bad exactly but it's definitely still a flaw. Some players stay flawed.



Not sure where you're getting your info
per NST
View attachment 898081


He gave up nearly 12 HDCA/60, which was the highest of any Devils dman and higher than any of the dmen you listed(although barely in Power's case). I just said he needs improvement defensively, not that he's a worthless bum. If you feel different that's fine. He was a rookie right out of college, that he still has some things to work on is not surprising at all.

I think Hamilton's problem is he only moves at one speed. He's ok defensively until he gets caught flat footed. When he does he can't recover. With Hughes' skating that won't be an issue. For him it will be more about anticipation and staying disciplined and learning techniques for specific situations. We will see if it happens. His brother Quinn has improved defensively from when he entered the league and I'm guessing Luke will as well. Jack has also improved but that's obviously less important.

 

[dgibb10]

Jeez I said New Jersey was my answer in my post and voted for them. Didn't know I was obligated to give L Hughes a handy too



I realize +- doesn't tell the whole story, it certainly tells part of one though. The giveaways in particular stand out with Hughes, but that's to be expected with a player that has the puck a lot. Really don't think 'needs improvement defensively' is some salacious accusation, Devils fan sites see the same thing New Jersey Devils-Are The Good and Bad Criticisms Of Luke Hughes Valid?

Experience and better coaching should help certainly. Not really a given however that he improves immensely, Dougie Hamilton has all the tools to be a great shutdown defender too but simply isn't. He's not really bad exactly but it's definitely still a flaw. Some players stay flawed.



Not sure where you're getting your info
per NST
View attachment 898081


He gave up nearly 12 HDCA/60, which was the highest of any Devils dman and higher than any of the dmen you listed(although barely in Power's case). I just said he needs improvement defensively, not that he's a worthless bum. If you feel different that's fine. He was a rookie right out of college, that he still has some things to work on is not surprising at all.

Yes, that is 1748 total shifts (208+281+171+1088). 208 of which were in the offensive zone.

208/1748=11.9%

 

[Bounces R Way]

Yes, that is 1748 total shifts (208+281+171+1088). 208 of which were in the offensive zone.

208/1748=11.9%

Why on earth would you count on the fly shift starts

Just go by faceoffs then, should provide a comprehensive enough picture of how a player was deployed.

 

[Guadana]

Are you accusing me of lying?

From what you said before? Yes. Or you saw those games but you couldn't draw realistic conclusions from this? Is it better to choose the option with a lie than the option with the inability to adequately analyze what you saw?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yes, that is 1748 total shifts (208+281+171+1088). 208 of which were in the offensive zone.

208/1748=11.9%

Remove the on the fly starts to get a more accurate depiction of what a coach is doing when there is a whistle. On the fly starts skews the numbers.
More offensive zone starts than defensive. But that is not a surprise.

Just look at of offensive vs defensive zone starts.

 

[dgibb10]

Remove the on the fly starts to get a more accurate depiction of what a coach is doing when there is a whistle. On the fly starts skews the numbers.
More offensive zone starts than defensive. But that is not a surprise.

Just look at of offensive vs defensive zone starts.

Including the on the fly starts shows just how little an impact it has.

It's 0.5 extra ozone starts a game lol

Why on earth would you count on the fly shift starts

Just go by faceoffs then, should provide a comprehensive enough picture of how a player was deployed.

0.5 ozone starts a game does not move the needle in the way you think it does.

 

[TageGod]

As always, Sabres organization sucks, can't keep a coach, or even keep a team conditioned. We will get a better idea of the Sabre's D this year. The potential is the obvious #1.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Including the on the fly starts shows just how little an impact it has.

It's 0.5 extra ozone starts a game lol


0.5 ozone starts a game does not move the needle in the way you think it does.

I never said it does, I said on the fly starts should not be included,
Looking at ozone to dzone ratio, its
55 % - 45%

 

[dgibb10]

I never said it does, I said on the fly starts should not be included,
Looking at ozone to dzone ratio, its
55 % - 45%

Yeah that's pretty standard.

Especially when you play for a team that has an overall zone start ratio of

55% - 45%

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Luke Hughes projects to being very good defensively. He is an elite skater in all directions, has an extremely long reach and can skate the puck out of trouble unlike many in the NHL. Awareness generally comes with experience and 1 on 1 defending (which improved drastically throughout the year) is improved with coaching and experience. People forget how poor Scott Niedermayer was defensively to start his career. When you have the size and ability to skate like L Hughes, as long as you don't have marbles in your head, you will be at least average defensively.

People simply don't understand the concept of projection.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

As a Wings fan the only two I would trade our situation for are NJ and Buffalo. There are ways I believe we can catch or pass them, but things have to really break right.

 

[My3Sons]

Another year will add some new promising players to the pool of every team. Some players will progress and some stagnate. It's tough to project most players 18-21. It's easy to presume things will work out for the best but history shows few prospects hit their ultimate ceiling, even high draft picks.

 

[Bounces R Way]

0.5 ozone starts a game does not move the needle in the way you think it does.

If you're going to quote statistics to support your argument you should probably know how those stats are used. I've never seen anyone use on the fly shift starts in a zone deployment discussion, probably because that wouldn't make any sense.