What Steven Stamkos career could have been?

[rmartin65]

	Bure	Stamkos
Goals (G/GP), Lead	3 (1)	2 (2)
Goals (G/GP), Top 2	3 (3)	5 (3)
Goals (G/GP), Top 3	4 (4)	5 (6)
Goals (G/GP), Top 4	4 (4)	6 (6)
Goals (G/GP), Top 5	5 (4)	6 (6)
Points (P/GP), Lead	0 (0)	0 (0)
Points (P/GP), Top 2	1 (0)	2 (0)
Points (P/GP), Top 3	2 (1)	2 (2)
Points (P/GP), Top 4	2 (1)	2 (2)
Points (P/GP), Top 5	3 (1)	4 (2)
AS-1	1	0
AS-2	2	2
AS-3	2	2
Hart, Lead	0	0
Hart, Top 2	0	1
Hart, Top 3	1	1
Hart, Top 4	1	1
Hart, Top 5	1	1

Both dealt with injuries that likely cost them a couple awards. Both dealt with solid competition for awards at their position (Bure against Jagr and Selanne; Stamkos against Crosby and Malkin).

 

[Voight]

Unless you are a team insider or you regularly travel / eat / bus with the team, you are entirely incapable of determining whether the given player "deserved" to be captain or not.

Yea, never understood how people can outright claim a player isn't a good captain or doesn't deserve to be captain. They arent with the team so they have zero idea.

 

[MadLuke]

Well, no fantasies about future.
When TBL missed postseason in 2017 many people connected it with Stamkos missing nearly entire season. Maybe those people didn`t want to see, that TBL had the same number of points with western SC finalist NSH and ignore how raw TBL made postseason with Stamkos missing 60% of regular season 2013/14.

I mean again that seem to start with the conclusion, Stamkos miss nearly an entire season, his team miss the playoff, but they did in 2013/2014

When Stamkos played in 2014 they went 24W-9L-4OT a 115 pts pace, when they did not a 22-18-5 pace (89 pts pace out of the playoff), what should we conclude by that 2014 season ?

I think there is a bit of motivated reasoning, one could spin all of this the other way around when looking at 2014, how good they were with someone scoring at a 55 goal per 82 pace in the very low scoring 2014 nhl, enough to push them in the playoff despite a mediocre performance without him.

 

[The Macho King]

Before the leg, Stamkos was a very fast player and an amazing EV scorer. His 60 goal season - 48 were even strength. He always had the one timer but he was a multi-dimensional scorer.

After the break, that changed. 5 on 5 scoring went down and relied more on the PP.

Regarding the playoffs - sometimes bad, almost always disappointing even if okay.

 

[The Macho King]

Well, no fantasies about future.
When TBL missed postseason in 2017 many people connected it with Stamkos missing nearly entire season. Maybe those people didn`t want to see, that TBL had the same number of points with western SC finalist NSH and ignore how raw TBL made postseason with Stamkos missing 60% of regular season 2013/14.

When we missed in 2017 we lost Stamkos and also like a half dozen other Cs for long stretches. That was the season Yanni Gourde and Brayden Point broke out - Point was our 4C and Gourde was in the AHL at the start of the season but Stamkos and Tyler Johnson missed a chunk and we sold at the deadline (Filppula was playing C and was traded but that was also a salary dump). If I recall that's also the season we traded Bishop (and ended up with Cernak).

Just to say a lot went into us missing the playoffs that year - Tampa lost a lot of players that season and still almost squeaked in.

 

[TheBig08]

Before the leg, Stamkos was a very fast player and an amazing EV scorer. His 60 goal season - 48 were even strength. He always had the one timer but he was a multi-dimensional scorer.

After the break, that changed. 5 on 5 scoring went down and relied more on the PP.

Regarding the playoffs - sometimes bad, almost always disappointing even if okay.

How many of those goals did martin st louis asisst on? its an actually question becuase some people say thats why he got so many goals.

 

[The Macho King]

How many of those goals did martin st louis asisst on? its an actually question becuase some people say thats why he got so many goals.

20 total assists (13 primary/7 secondary). They were split for a good chunk of that season and Teddy Purcell was on his line for a stretch. I'd guess if you looked at his 40 goals last season Kucherov probably assisted on more of those than MSL did on his 60.

 

[TheBig08]

20 total assists (13 primary/7 secondary). They were split for a good chunk of that season and Teddy Purcell was on his line for a stretch. I'd guess if you looked at his 40 goals last season Kucherov probably assisted on more of those than MSL did on his 60.

Thats kind of a good, amount take 20 from 60 you get 40 so if he dint have st louis he probably at best would have 50 something not 60 and even if we dont count secondary just primary that still only leaves with his him get 40 at best only 50 something. But maybe he wold have done it without him.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

How many of those goals did martin st louis asisst on? its an actually question becuase some people say thats why he got so many goals.

i hate almost all the recent changes to hockey-ref but one advantage is they make it very easy to see how many times one guy assisted on another guy’s goals

2010: 27 out of 51
2011: 24 out of 45
2012: 20 out of 60
2013: 18 out of 29
2014: 3 out of 25

post-MSL trade

2015: 43 goals with no discernible star winger feeding him

assists from kucherov

2016: 11 out of 36
2017: 5 out of 9
2018: 16 out of 27
2019: 25 out of 45
2020: 11 out of 29
2021: kuch missed the whole year, 17 goals
2022: 17 out of 42
2023: 18 out of 34
2024: 28 out of 40

 

[The Macho King]

i hate almost all the recent changes to hockey-ref but one advantage is they make it very easy to see how many times one guy assisted on another guy’s goals

2010: 27 out of 51
2011: 24 out of 45
2012: 20 out of 60
2013: 18 out of 29
2014: 3 out of 25

post-MSL trade

2015: 43 goals with no discernible star winger feeding him

assists from kucherov

2016: 11 out of 36
2017: 5 out of 9
2018: 16 out of 27
2019: 25 out of 45
2020: 11 out of 29
2021: kuch missed the whole year, 17 goals
2022: 17 out of 42
2023: 18 out of 34
2024: 28 out of 40

28 out of 40 is f***ing bonkers.

 

[TheBig08]

i hate almost all the recent changes to hockey-ref but one advantage is they make it very easy to see how many times one guy assisted on another guy’s goals

2010: 27 out of 51
2011: 24 out of 45
2012: 20 out of 60
2013: 18 out of 29
2014: 3 out of 25

post-MSL trade

2015: 43 goals with no discernible star winger feeding him

assists from kucherov

2016: 11 out of 36
2017: 5 out of 9
2018: 16 out of 27
2019: 25 out of 45
2020: 11 out of 29
2021: kuch missed the whole year, 17 goals
2022: 17 out of 42
2023: 18 out of 34
2024: 28 out of 40

proves my point that without st louis he doesn't put up the same numbers without him in 2010 he maybe gets 40 probably 30 a chance at 50 and 2011 he maybe gets 40 probably 30 then 2012 he gets maybe 50 and probably gets 40 2013 maybe 50 probably 40 if he plays the whole season maybe 50 probably 40 so he doesnt do bad without st louis hes just not putting up the same numbers and he dosent have the 60 goal season without him.

Can you look up how many ovi goals backstrom asissted on during his whole career with each season individually and post them I would like to know I am a ovi fan.

 

[sr edler]

Is post-leg Stamkos even better than Phil Kessel. I'm not sure he is. Certainly less dynamic.

 

[TheBig08]

proves my point that without st louis he doesn't put up the same numbers without him in 2010 he maybe gets 40 probably 30 a chance at 50 and 2011 he maybe gets 40 probably 30 then 2012 he gets maybe 50 and probably gets 40 2013 maybe 50 probably 40 if he plays the whole season maybe 50 probably 40 so he doesnt do bad without st louis hes just not putting up the same numbers and he dosent have the 60 goal season without him.

Can you look up how many ovi goals backstrom asissted on during his whole career with each season individually and post them I would like to know I am a ovi fan.

Can someone look up how many ovi goals backstrom asissted on during his whole career with each season individually and post them.

 

[Crosby2010]

What on earth is wrong with him this year? 1 point in 8 games? Seriously, just how far apart were he and the Tampa management for a contract? Surely staying in Tampa for a little less beats going to..............................Nashville

 

[TheBig08]

What on earth is wrong with him this year? 1 point in 8 games? Seriously, just how far apart were he and the Tampa management for a contract? Surely staying in Tampa for a little less beats going to..............................Nashville

maybe they just didnt want him

 

[Michael Farkas]

He's playing like it's April...

 

[TheBig08]

He's playing like it's April...

whats your take on If steven stamkos never broke his leg would he have been on a ovechkin like goal scoring pace during his career?

you seem to know alot about hockey, you have a whole hockey channel

im asking because before he broke his leg he was scoring alot of goals.

 

[Michael Farkas]

whats your take on If steven stamkos never broke his leg would he have been on a ovechkin like goal scoring pace during his career?

you seem to know alot about hockey, you have a whole hockey channel

im asking because before he broke his leg he was scoring alot of goals.

Without the leg injury, it's probably a whole different player...at least for longer. There was a lot more of a dynamic element, there's more net-drive there, there's more aggression in his game...after the injury, he was hardly the same caliber of player...he became more of a distance scorer, more of a perimeter player...

It's hard to say that anyone would have kept pace with Ovechkin...because, well, look at him...but I'm a bigger fan of players that have multiple dimensions to them and Stamkos lost an element or elements to his game, even in terms of goal scoring ability, and this is what we got...

Truth be told, he could have the exact same career totals as now, but if he played like he did his first years in the league, I'd hold him in higher regard (he also likely wouldn't have been a playoff zilch relative to expectations).

 

[TheBig08]

Without the leg injury, it's probably a whole different player...at least for longer. There was a lot more of a dynamic element, there's more net-drive there, there's more aggression in his game...after the injury, he was hardly the same caliber of player...he became more of a distance scorer, more of a perimeter player...

It's hard to say that anyone would have kept pace with Ovechkin...because, well, look at him...but I'm a bigger fan of players that have multiple dimensions to them and Stamkos lost an element or elements to his game, even in terms of goal scoring ability, and this is what we got...

Truth be told, he could have the exact same career totals as now, but if he played like he did his first years in the league, I'd hold him in higher regard (he also likely wouldn't have been a playoff zilch relative to expectations).

if you had to guess what his career totals would look like and what would have been different about his career what would you say. question is for anybody.

 

[Crosby2010]

whats your take on If steven stamkos never broke his leg would he have been on a ovechkin like goal scoring pace during his career?

you seem to know alot about hockey, you have a whole hockey channel

im asking because before he broke his leg he was scoring alot of goals.

He could still end his career with close to 700 goals. I've always been one of those guys that thought that he was still a very good player after the leg injury (2014 season I believe?). He still scored 40-45 goals 4 times. Had his two highest point seasons after this injury including his high of 106 in 2022. His speed took a hit, but he was still 2nd in goals in 2015. The point I always make is how long did people expect him to maintain that high level of goal scoring in his first 5-6 seasons anyway? It isn't easy. Just because Ovechkin did it for a historically long time it doesn't mean anyone else could. Because in all honesty no one else did like him. So I don't think a lot changes in his career numbers-wise.

The good thing is he adjusted his game and put up higher assists totals. Everyone, including Wayne Gretzky himself, ended up taking a hit on his goal scoring as his years caught up to him but still was the best playmaker in the NHL. I think regardless Stamkos did alright. He's having a woeful start to the year and maybe that keeps him off of the Olympic team next year but even just a couple of months ago at 34 years old he was still on everyone's radar.

 

[TheBig08]

He could still end his career with close to 700 goals. I've always been one of those guys that thought that he was still a very good player after the leg injury (2014 season I believe?). He still scored 40-45 goals 4 times. Had his two highest point seasons after this injury including his high of 106 in 2022. His speed took a hit, but he was still 2nd in goals in 2015. The point I always make is how long did people expect him to maintain that high level of goal scoring in his first 5-6 seasons anyway? It isn't easy. Just because Ovechkin did it for a historically long time it doesn't mean anyone else could. Because in all honesty no one else did like him. So I don't think a lot changes in his career numbers-wise.

The good thing is he adjusted his game and put up higher assists totals. Everyone, including Wayne Gretzky himself, ended up taking a hit on his goal scoring as his years caught up to him but still was the best playmaker in the NHL. I think regardless Stamkos did alright. He's having a woeful start to the year and maybe that keeps him off of the Olympic team next year but even just a couple of months ago at 34 years old he was still on everyone's radar.

not saying he's a bad player and that he wouldn't have slowed down i'm just saying what his career look like if didn't get injured, for example would he be more likely to end his carrer with close to or at 800 goals?

 

[Michael Farkas]

I don't think anyone is ever "more likely" to end up with 800 goals...

 

[TheBig08]

I don't think anyone is ever "more likely" to end up with 800 goals...

i mean would he be close to 700 right now and possible 800 bey the end of his career.

 

[The Macho King]

You never know how aging curves work. Maybe by adapting his game early he extended his productive years so when age-related decline hit he already became a more secondary player. If he played until 28 with a run and gun style maybe the adaptation isn't as smooth. Can't really what if too much there.

 

[Gorskyontario]

not saying he's a bad player and that he wouldn't have slowed down i'm just saying what his career look like if didn't get injured, for example would he be more likely to end his carrer with close to or at 800 goals?

What if Tim Kerr was never injured? Or Mario Lemieux? Or Mike Bossy?