TSN: What should Bruins do with Milan Lucic?

[Daishi]

Too many people think this team is close to being a true contender when in reality they aren't even close. Proof will be in the pudding before Christmas. Hopefully Sweeney isn't blind to this but I'm sure Jacobs and Neely think we are so we will hold onto our core with serious offensive issues.

I'm with you on that. As if teams that miss the playoffs were 'just one or two tweaks' away from winning the cup.

The team won a cup as underdogs in a perfect storm. That team and situation is gone. The thing that people probably don't like to think about is that management is really just fine with being adequate now. They don't need to be real cup contenders to get people to buy season tickets. They just need to not stink. That's why we're not getting a real rebuild that would be necessary for becoming a dominating franchise.

 

[Mpasta]

Seriously. Zero. I don't think I've seen a single one that's both realistic AND beneficial to the team.

To be fair, nobody here is a GM so we don't know who is willing to give up what. We haven't even heard solid rumors.

I think if there is going to be a second thread about this, it should be made into a poll.

Something like:

Trade Lucic now
Trade Lucic around the deadline
Re-sign Lucic now
Plan to sign Lucic at a later point

You say nobody is coming up with a plan to trade him but I don't see anyone's plan with the salary cap if we keep him that makes a ton of sense.

I think trading him at the deadline isn't a viable option because even though I don't have a ton of faith in this team, they will be around 6th place and won't want to trade away one of their big pieces at that point. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

I'm with you on that. As if teams that miss the playoffs were 'just one or two tweaks' away from winning the cup.

The team won a cup as underdogs in a perfect storm. That team and situation is gone. The thing that people probably don't like to think about is that management is really just fine with being adequate now. They don't need to be real cup contenders to get people to buy season tickets. They just need to not stink. That's why we're not getting a real re-tool that's necessary for becoming a dominating franchise.

Well, last year we were a couple tweaks from 1st in the league to 9th in the conference.

A couple tweaks in our favor for next year adding to a great core led by Bergeron-Rask-Chara-Hamilton-Krejci-Lucic that will all want to redeem themselves and what do we know if that can't be another 2011 after a total collapse in 2010?

Don't sell this team short. 2013 didn't show you that you never can count this team out? Thanks Lucic.

The core is very good. Sweeney job is to make some supporting cast moves to make it better. Let's see how we do next year. But don't count on me to bet against them. Something tells me they'll be out for a vengeance. Julien included.

 

[Daishi]

Well, last year we were a couple tweaks from 1st in the league to 9th in the conference.

A cople tweaks in our favor for next year adding to a great core led by Bergeron-Rask-Chara-Hamilton-Krejci-Lucic that will all want to redeem themselves and what do we know if that can't be another 2011 after a total collapse in 2010?

Don't sell this team short. 2013 didn't show you that you never can count this team out? Thanks Lucic.

The core is very good. Sweeney job is to make some supporting cast moves to make it better. Let's see how we do next year. But don't punt on me to bet against them. Something tells me they'll be out for a vengeance. Julien included.

The league, the game and the other teams changed more than the Bruins did. That's what escalated the decline, in my opinion.

 

[Lost Horizons]

When you look at and are thinking about resigning Lucic look at Dustin Brown and what's happened to him. Both play similar styles and their stats are almost identical:

regular season

Lucic .6ppg
Brown .55ppg

lucic.24gpg
Brown .25gpg

etc Even thier playoff stats are similar.

brown
76gp 19g 26a 45pts .59ppg

lucic
96gp 26g 35a 61pts .63ppg


Brown's production has dropped off a cliff and did so quickly and now the Kings are stuck with him and his 27 points.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

To be fair, nobody here is a GM so we don't know who is willing to give up what. We haven't even heard solid rumors.

I think if there is going to be a second thread about this, it should be made into a poll.

Something like:

Trade Lucic now
Trade Lucic around the deadline
Re-sign Lucic now
Plan to sign Lucic at a later point

You say nobody is coming up with a plan to trade him but I don't see anyone's plan with the salary cap if we keep him that makes a ton of sense.

I think trading him at the deadline isn't a viable option because even though I don't have a ton of faith in this team, they will be around 6th place and won't want to trade away one of their big pieces at that point. Maybe I'm missing something.

That's why you do all you can to sign him or trade him this summer. Anyway, letting him play his contract year would only make it costlier for the Cap hit. The time to extend him is now. If you can't, you have to start looking for a trade. The sooner, the better.

 

[Kaoz]

Is a guy who has historically been lost without Krejci really a "cornerstone" or "foundational" player???

Could that not be because in Boston if not with Krejci Lucic 90% of the time finds himself paired with Chris Kelly? The times we've seen him with skilled linemates not named Krejci he's often looked very good. He looked great with Spooner and Pastrnak last season. He looked very good with Savard and Kessel back in the day. He's had stints looking great with Bergeron over the years when he so rarely found himself on his wing.

Seems like a pretty unfair statement to make considering Julien lives and dies with his Lucic/Krejci, Begeron/Marchand pairings and deviates very very little from them.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

The lowest the Cap hit can be with Lucic is on a 8y deal.

Give him the same deal than Dougie:

50M/8y.

And enjoy.

 

[bp13]

The lowest the Cap hit can be with Lucic is on a 8y deal.

Give him the same deal than Dougie:

50M/8y.

And enjoy.

Sold on Dougie.

I don't give Lucic anywhere near that. Too long and too pricey. 4/$24M is my max. Take it or be dealt.

 

[Estlin]

Could that not be because in Boston if not with Krejci Lucic 90% of the time finds himself paired with Chris Kelly? The times we've seen him with skilled linemates not named Krejci he's often looked very good. He looked great with Spooner and Pastrnak last season. He looked very good with Savard and Kessel back in the day. He's had stints looking great with Bergeron over the years when he so rarely found himself on his wing.

Seems like a pretty unfair statement to make considering Julien lives and dies with his Lucic/Krejci, Begeron/Marchand pairings and deviates very very little from them.

A guy making his salary now and what he can expect on his next contract ($6.5 million+) is expected to generate his own offense and not be dependent on others. Lucic defenders keep saying that he needs this or that player on his line to do well. To me, that sounds like a complementary player who doesn't merit the salary that he currently gets and will demand in his new contract.

I like Lucic, but not at the price that Boston is paying and may pay him as part of an extension.

 

[BruinDust]

When you look at and are thinking about resigning Lucic look at Dustin Brown and what's happened to him. Both play similar styles and their stats are almost identical:

regular season

Lucic .6ppg
Brown .55ppg

lucic.24gpg
Brown .25gpg

etc Even thier playoff stats are similar.

brown
76gp 19g 26a 45pts .59ppg

lucic
96gp 26g 35a 61pts .63ppg


Brown's production has dropped off a cliff and did so quickly and now the Kings are stuck with him and his 27 points.

Brown isn't a good comparison to Lucic. The only similarities are they have high hit totals. Brown is an average-size player who is much more physical than his size should allow. Lucic is much bigger and stronger than Brown and is much more suited to play a physical game.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

Sold on Dougie.

I don't give Lucic anywhere near that. Too long and too pricey. 4/$24M is my max. Take it or be dealt.

I hope that Sweeney has that attitude. Get this thing all over with before the draft. Give him his final money/term deal offer. Either he signs or you deal him at the draft.

 

[Lost Horizons]

Brown isn't a good comparison to Lucic. The only similarities are they have high hit totals. Brown is an average-size player who is much more physical than his size should allow. Lucic is much bigger and stronger than Brown and is much more suited to play a physical game.

Hits are hits and the players size doesn't matter they all wear you down. Size doesn't equal strength. Reechi was 5'10 and he could hold his own and not be pushed off the puck. Same with Marchand. What matters is Brown and Lucic both play the same style. The reckless style that makes them effective. Brown didn't fight and he broke down. Lucic fights and how many time have players broken things in fights? It's better to move Lucic sooner rather than later. He'll be looking for a pay increase and a long term and the B's can't be saddled with that.

 

[Kaoz]

A guy making his salary now and what he can expect on his next contract ($6.5 million+) is expected to generate his own offense and not be dependent on others. Lucic defenders keep saying that he needs this or that player on his line to do well. To me, that sounds like a complementary player who doesn't merit the salary that he currently gets and will demand in his new contract.

I like Lucic, but not at the price that Boston is paying and may pay him as part of an extension.

If those are your expectations, you must think the Bruins are in a dire situation indeed. The forwards on this team getting more money then Lucic certainly aren't players who generate their own offense. Krejci is more reliant on his linemates then most, certainly more so then Lucic imo. He's a pure setup man, without someone to bury the puck or create space he'd be hard pressed to produce. Half of this teams problems can be attributed to the the team not giving him the Iginla/Horton type he so sorely needs imo. Post concussion Bergeron certainly doesn't have that offensive acumen. I'd say the only real players the Bruins have who can offensively get it all done are Lucic and Marchand, and in both cases the times they do that are so few and far between I wouldn't label either consistent in this regard.

I'm not sure what Lucic's next contract will be. If the cap doesn't rise and if he is in fact in sharp decline, I'm not sure why people think he will come in at 6.5 per on his next contract. If the argument is "because teams out there will give him that on the open market" then it stands to reason that if Boston does, they can then move him to one of those teams for a hefty return at that time?

I think there's far more risk in moving Lucic now because of one sub par season in which the entire team performed well below expectations then there would be to wait and see how he rebounds.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

The lowest the Cap hit can be with Lucic is on a 8y deal.

Give him the same deal than Dougie:

50M/8y.

And enjoy.

You think we have some up and coming prospects that are going to fill in the gap? Because we will have very very limited cap space doing that.

Moving some cap dumps may open some space, but still, how are we filling in the gaps?

Surely Chris Kelly or Dennis Seidenberg aren't going to net us a top 6 forward or a new top 4 defenseman (possibly needing 2, since Seidenberg is currently 1/3 top 4 defenseman that we have. .

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

You think we have some up and coming prospects that are going to fill in the gap? Because we will have very very limited cap space doing that.

Moving some cap dumps may open some space, but still, how are we filling in the gaps?

Surely Chris Kelly or Dennis Seidenberg aren't going to net us a top 6 forward or a new top 4 defenseman (possibly needing 2, since Seidenberg is currently 1/3 top 4 defenseman that we have. .

Well, that Lucic extension would only be a 250k increase and would only kick in 16-17. No doubt Sweeney would be able to fit this in...

 

[wintersej]

I don't think even the most ardent Lucic supporter thinks there is no risk.

If you can get a fair deal for him you are trading risk for losing team identity. If you can gain some of that identity back by getting some size in the bottom six, I think losing the risk is the best move.

Edit: the question is what is fair value and if someone will pay it.

 

[ODAAT]

I don't think even the most ardent Lucic supporter thinks there is no risk.

If you can get a fair deal for him you are trading risk for losing team identity. If you can gain some of that identity back by getting some size in the bottom six, I think losing the risk is the best move.

Edit: the question is what is fair value and if someone will pay it.

what`s the identity now? And has Looch or can/will Looch bring that bite back to his game?

 

[PB37]

Could you imagine you or I knowing that out of the 20 players dressed on the opposition not one could take us in a fight? I would ****ing terrorize them. I wish Lucic had that in him. Show up and take no prisoners . There are barely any guys who will even fight Lucic left, so throw your weight around. 99% of the time, they aren't going to do anything anyways. He needs to be more engaged, no doubt.

The problem is Lou, look at what happens when Lucic is engaged or enraged. The refs tend to make bogus, reactionary calls on Lucic, and then the media/fans call him a bully. And while WE don't mind that nor does probably Lucic, it's just a perception thing that gets around and definitely takes shape in the ref's mind for the next time they call a Bruins game. Remember when Lucic came to Shawn Thornton's aid when he was surrounded by 5 Canuks and the refs threw him out of the game because they thought he was on the bench? Total garbage call. Over the years of watching Lucic closely, you can tell he's getting more and more frustrated with the refs making reputation calls on him.

You just can't play that style you described or else you'll be sitting your ass in the box more than helping your team win and the main reason is because of the way today's NHL is.

 

[BruinDust]

Hits are hits and the players size doesn't matter they all wear you down. Size doesn't equal strength. Reechi was 5'10 and he could hold his own and not be pushed off the puck. Same with Marchand. What matters is Brown and Lucic both play the same style. The reckless style that makes them effective. Brown didn't fight and he broke down. Lucic fights and how many time have players broken things in fights? It's better to move Lucic sooner rather than later. He'll be looking for a pay increase and a long term and the B's can't be saddled with that.

There are lots of players with reckless styles. You hear scouts all the time question smaller players who play reckless how they will hold up playing that style in the NHL.

You want to say Lucic will break down soon because of his style then fine, that's your opinion. But to site Brown as a comparable to Lucic just because of similar numbers is not even close.

And I can guarantee you Lucic is much stronger than Brown. Lucic is an absolute horse in the strength department, likely one of the strongest players in the sport. I doubt you will find a GM or scout who disagrees that Lucic is much more suited to play that reckless style than Brown is.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

what`s the identity now? And has Looch or can/will Looch bring that bite back to his game?

And does Lucic want to? It's really up to him.

Lucic is the identity of the team. A team that whimpered out of playoff contention. A team that's future will be decided by next season.

Is it better to sell too early? Or too late? Or not at all? Seguin trade proved way too early to sell. Many of these long term contracts may prove to be too late to sell in the long run.

Management in the past 8 years really believes/believed in this group. But 8 years is a long time in hockey. It really is.

Lucic NEEDS to bring that back, or he's going to be a 7 million dollar anchor sooner rather than later. Whether here or somewhere else.

 

[Lost Horizons]

There are lots of players with reckless styles. You hear scouts all the time question smaller players who play reckless how they will hold up playing that style in the NHL.

You want to say Lucic will break down soon because of his style then fine, that's your opinion. But to site Brown as a comparable to Lucic just because of similar numbers is not even close.

It's not just the numbers it's the way they play. Pull up videos for Brown from 4 years ago and put them side by side with Lucic and they are the exact same style of player. Well mostly Brown at least tries on every shift.

And I can guarantee you Lucic is much stronger than Brown. Lucic is an absolute horse in the strength department, likely one of the strongest players in the sport. I doubt you will find a GM or scout who disagrees that Lucic is much more suited to play that reckless style than Brown is.

Strength doesn't equal durability. Style does. You need look no further then McQuaid. He's undoubtedly stronger then most yet he's always hurt due to the way he plays the game. The rough and tumble style takes it's toll. McQuaid has only played 70+ games once in his career. Compare McQuaid and his strength to Krug and his style. Krug stays healthy McQuaid doesn't.

 

[BruinDust]

It's not just the numbers it's the way they play. Pull up videos for Brown from 4 years ago and put them side by side with Lucic and they are the exact same style of player. Well mostly Brown at least tries on every shift.



Strength doesn't equal durability. Style does. You need look no further then McQuaid. He's undoubtedly stronger then most yet he's always hurt due to the way he plays the game. The rough and tumble style takes it's toll. McQuaid has only played 70+ games once in his career. Compare McQuaid and his strength to Krug and his style. Krug stays healthy McQuaid doesn't.

So by that we can assume all skilled non-physical players are durable but guys who play a physical style are not.

OK then.

By your logic Lucic should of already started missing games with nagging injuries. Meanwhile he's missed a total of 9 games out a a possible 376 in the last 5 seasons. Sounds pretty durable to me.

 

[PB37]

It's not just the numbers it's the way they play. Pull up videos for Brown from 4 years ago and put them side by side with Lucic and they are the exact same style of player. Well mostly Brown at least tries on every shift.



Strength doesn't equal durability. Style does. You need look no further then McQuaid. He's undoubtedly stronger then most yet he's always hurt due to the way he plays the game. The rough and tumble style takes it's toll. McQuaid has only played 70+ games once in his career. Compare McQuaid and his strength to Krug and his style. Krug stays healthy McQuaid doesn't.

Yet there's examples of power guys playing into their 30's and still performing at a high clip as well as being durable, ie: Iginla, Chara, Shanahan, Getzlaf is 30 and still a physical beast and playing at a high clip, AO will be 30 when the season starts and he's still a durable player while performing at a high clip and being physical.

 

[EverettMike]

It's taken me months, but I finally have it: nothing. Let him play half a season, then sign or extend.