What probability do you feel Ovechkin has to catch Gretzky now? (Part 2)

[HockeyWooot]

I think he can do it, inspire of a covid shortened season and time missed.

Caps are looking GOOD this year, if they win another cup (hardest in sports to win) I do wonder if that further changes the narrative on his ranking among the greats.

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

Touche. However, you also have a lot more players willing to block shots with much better equipment.

I know it's harder to score goals today lol.. But it's def not dead puck era either. Scoring has opened up a bit more.

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

I think he can do it, inspire of a covid shortened season and time missed.

Caps are looking GOOD this year, if they win another cup (hardest in sports to win) I do wonder if that further changes the narrative on his ranking among the greats.

Honestly. Going into this season I didn't think he would due to shortened, but he's still probably going to get 30 goals this season anyway, so it didn't take him far off pace. He needs 8 in 13 to reach 30 this year. No problem for him i am sure.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Crosby 3 Stanley Cups > Ovechkin 1 Stanley Cup.

Truly the only thing that matters.

Team awards are _team awards_ . [Mod]

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

I know it's harder to score goals today lol.. But it's def not dead puck era either. Scoring has opened up a bit more.

Yes, it is definitely trending up a bit, which is good. The dead puck era was not good for the game.

Should help Ovie in his quest to 895. (Wayne can have his 60 odd other records. )

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

Yes, it is definitely trending up a bit, which is good. The dead puck era was not good for the game.

Should help Ovie in his quest to 895. (Wayne can have his 60 odd other records. )

Haha. Ovi shot is going to slow down by 10mph next season. Easy to defend. No more than 10 goals next year....... (in a 20 game stretch).. Lol

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Haha. Ovi shot is going to slow down by 10mph next season. Easy to defend. No more than 10 goals next year....... (in a 20 game stretch).. Lol

Ovie still has another 50 goal season in him, IMHO.

His shot can slow down when he’s in the KHL when he’s 45.

 

[Mulletman]

Still Ovi might break several goalscoring records. PPG is just a matter of time, goals is still a possibility even tough Covid have made the chance for it happening a little smaller. GWG is also a very good chance Ovi will take. In a full season he averages 8 a year. Crosby wont come close to anyone. If Ovi plays around 4-5 more seasons he could be the leader in Goals, Overtime goals, Game winning goals, powerplay goals and shots. So when you open NHL's stat page and check out the all time leaders Ovi has a chance of leading 5 (If he do take those records Gretzky will lead 8). Crosby will lead 0 with Ovi also having way more individual records I just dont see team achievements being the difference.

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It isn't talked about as much, but when it comes to powerplay goals Ovechkin has a chance to really dominate that stat. Like possibly "Gretzky like" dominate it. 267 powerplay goals so far with Andreychuk holding the record with 274 powerplay goals. Selanne for example scored another 97 powerplay goals after turning 36 and Ovechkin already has 12 more powerplay goals than Selanne. Scoring just like Selanne from here on out would give Ovechkin 364 career powerplay goals. 90 more powerplay goals than anybody else ever. Pretty crazy when you think that Gretzky has 93 more overall goals than anybody else.

 

[Mulletman]

Hey @Big Phil we need you to start another thread about this as this will be closed soon since we're over 1000 posts. And give us an update on where you stand on Ovechkin. Will he break Gretzky's overall record? Will he break the all time record for most consecutive 30 goal seasons this year and by how much do you think he'll dominate the all time powerplay goals record when it's all said and done? And will Auston Matthews end up scoring even more goals than Ovechkin as he's off to a super hot start?

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

Ovie still has another 50 goal season in him, IMHO.

His shot can slow down when he’s in the KHL when he’s 45.

Ha. He probably does have 50 goal seasons left. It really is unreal what he's doing for as long as he's doing it.

 

[SeanConn]

I'll be shocked if Ovechkin doesn't pump out 50 goals in a season at least one more time.

He only needs 167 more goals, and he probably will play 5+ more seasons.

 

[Mattavarner]

80%, if he wants the record (I feel that he definitely does) he wont retire until he gets it.

Whats greater for your legacy, finishing number 1 in all time goals, breaking a record once thought to be unbreakable, or finishing 2nd and playing in the KHL for a few years?

 

[Midnight Judges]

Nobody is questioning that he's one of the best player ever. But it's debatable to see where he ranks now and when it's all said and done. Having him outside of top-10 is a valid take depending on what you value the most.

No, it won't be.

Ovechkin is pretty much a lock to end his career top 5 for adjusted points, and possibly #1 for goals. For adjusted points he'll only be behind Gordie Howe (26 seasons), Jagr (24 seasons), and Gretzky. Sidney Crosby is in the mix too, but currently trails Ovie.

But if Ovie plays 24 seasons he'll almost certainly pass Howe and Jagr.

 

[Midnight Judges]

He’s a top 20 player that’s not debatable

You'd think so, but then you can go check HF's embarrassing nutty little history forum.

 

[tenken00]

Has there ever been a more prolific goal scorer that was so boring. Early on in his career he use to score highlight reel goals. Now I watch the highlights and every goal is the same. He might end up with the most goals all time but there will be ten plus players with better highlights

Well he is halfway to 70 years old.

 

[filinski77]

But a top ten player of all times shouldn't be outproduced by 5-6-7-8 guys on a regular basis. Just my opinion. It's top ten of all time. That is a beyond insane group to belong to, and Ovie is not one of them.

That's not looking at the whole story, and you know it. Look through the point finishes that guys like Jagr, Hull Sr., even Crosby have. No-one is winning a Ross every year of their career. Ovechkin has been one of the best overall point producers over his career, and by FAR the best goal-scorer.

It's as silly as looking at Crosby and going "a top-10/20 player all-time should be able to sneak into the top-10 in goals more than 4 times in his career (or 4 times in goals/gp)".

 

[Beukeboom]

He’s arguable right now. If he breaks 894 it’s not even a discussion. #5 is in play at that point.

But again, this isn’t the point of the thread.

I'm not trying to talk Ovie down, but the top 4 is set in stone. Plante, Sawchuk, Hasek, Hall are four goalies that have a case. Harvey as a D for sure. Rocket Richard as a forward for sure. There are tops 3 places up for grabs after that (assuming only one goalie belongs).

What is Ovie's case over Jagr for instance? Jagr's level of dominance was longer and more impressive. He won scoring races in the dead puck era despite missing 19 games. Or Believau? Even Bobby Hull, people forget that he actually set scoring records. I mean, can anyone honestly say Ovie was a better hockey player than Crosby?

IF Ovie reaches 895 there is more of a case, I'll admit that. Preferably in combo with another SC. But otherwise I can't see why.

 

[Weztex]

No, it won't be.

Ovechkin is pretty much a lock to end his career top 5 for adjusted points, and possibly #1 for goals. For adjusted points he'll only be behind Gordie Howe (26 seasons), Jagr (24 seasons), and Gretzky. Sidney Crosby is in the mix too, but currently trails Ovie.

But if Ovie plays 24 seasons he'll almost certainly pass Howe and Jagr.

So if we rank players greatness by projected adjusted career totals and pretend defensemen and goalies never existed, Ovechkin is absolutely a top-10 player.

Makes sense.

 

[Midnight Judges]

So if we rank players greatness by projected adjusted career totals and pretend defensemen and goalies never existed, Ovechkin is absolutely a top-10 player.

Makes sense.

There is no need to pretend anything.

 

[gtrower]

I'm not trying to talk Ovie down, but the top 4 is cemented in stone. Plante, Sawchuk, Hasek, Hall are four goalies that have a case. Harvey as a D for sure. Rocket Richard as a forward for sure. There are tops 3 places up for grabs after that (assuming only one goalie belongs).

What is Ovie's case over Jagr for instance? Jagr's level of dominance was longer and more impressive. He won scoring races in the dead puck era despite missing 19 games. Or Believau? Even Bobby Hull, people forget that he actually set scoring records. I mean, can anyone honestly say Ovie was a better hockey player than Crosby?

IF Ovie reaches 895 there is more of a case, I'll admit that. Preferably in combo with another SC. But otherwise I can't see why.

Dude make a new thread on this. Or better yet post your thoughts in one of the other 30 threads on here that have already discussed this in circles.

This is a thread to discuss whether/when the Russian Machine will take down an unbreakable record.

 

[Mulletman]

So if we rank players greatness by projected adjusted career totals and pretend defensemen and goalies never existed, Ovechkin is absolutely a top-10 player.

Makes sense.

Defensemen and goalies are second class hockey players everybody knows that. It's like with acting. Clint Eastwood and Arnold Schwarzenegger are the stars (forwards) and Gary Oldman and Steve Buscemi are the supporting actors (defensemen, goalies).

 

[BallardEra]

Since Ovechkin entered the league he has 250 more goals than the next closest player. That’s like five 50 goal seasons worth of goals.

That’s just insane.

 

[andrjusha]

Since Ovechkin entered the league he has 250 more goals than the next closest player. That’s like five 50 goal seasons worth of goals.

That’s just insane.

Right, "Thou shalt not mention his name in vain"

 

[Big Phil]

Hey @Big Phil we need you to start another thread about this as this will be closed soon since we're over 1000 posts. And give us an update on where you stand on Ovechkin. Will he break Gretzky's overall record? Will he break the all time record for most consecutive 30 goal seasons this year and by how much do you think he'll dominate the all time powerplay goals record when it's all said and done? And will Auston Matthews end up scoring even more goals than Ovechkin as he's off to a super hot start?

Just my take, no he falls short of Gretzky's record. He's at 728 now. 13 games left in the season. 22 goals in the season. Maybe he hits 30, who knows. I'll say probably not though with 13 games left. Let's be very generous and give him 740 goals at the end of this season. If that is the case he still needs 154 goals. That's 4 more seasons of 40 goals and he'll be 36 this year. I doubt it. Mostly considering he has expressed interest in playing in the KHL at the end of his career. Also because that is still a lot of mustard. Maybe he'll hit 30 this year though, we'll see. Gartner's record is shared with him right now.

Power play goals yeah I think he passes it. Obviously he will, he is only 7 behind. I mean, Dave Andreychuk is the all-time leader for what it is worth. Phil Esposito for the longest time held that mark. I mean, it's just power play goals though. Brian Bellows has 6 less in his career than Gretzky.

 

[Big Phil]

You'd think so, but then you can go check HF's embarrassing nutty little history forum.

Well let's name 20 players, shall we? I think calling the guy a potential #5 player of all-time when the dust is settled is a little "off". But let's say he is in the top 20 now.

Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemieux, Beliveau, Hull, Richard, Harvey, Hasek, Jagr, Roy, Bourque, Shore, Plante, Morenz, Mikita, Messier, Sawchuk, Crosby.

That's about 19 right there. I think he is ahead of the Sakic, Yzerman, Esposito, Lidstrom, Brodeur group of players. But are there 5 guys you pick ahead of him? Yes. 10 guys? Yes. 15 guys? Yeah maybe, it'll be a good debate either way. Right now I am thinking he is #15-20. While it is a long ways off I can see McDavid being in the mix for #5.