Player Discussion What is the solution to this teams consistency problem?
- Thread starter L'Aveuglette
- Start date
The main issue is the players and their failure to play a solid NHL level structured hockey. Not only defensively, but offensively, as well.
I hardly see our first line maintaining continuous pressure in the offensive zone, shift after shift. Usually all their offense is off the rush or one and done type thing. I expect the puck to stay in the offensive zone for the majority of the shifts and time when Stutzle and Tkachuk are on the ice together.
The Managements, the coaches, the goalies all have been heavily blamed and fired but the results are just not changing
I hardly see our first line maintaining continuous pressure in the offensive zone, shift after shift. Usually all their offense is off the rush or one and done type thing. I expect the puck to stay in the offensive zone for the majority of the shifts and time when Stutzle and Tkachuk are on the ice together.
The Managements, the coaches, the goalies all have been heavily blamed and fired but the results are just not changing
Agent Zuuuub
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2015
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Trade part of the core is the only way.
we just went through a 7 year rebuild, no way we can do that again.
we've already added a lot of vets.
can't have a carousel of coaches.
at some point gotta stop looking at the goalies, the coaches, the vets and look at the one constant.
but that's only if we miss the playoffs.
we should be better than Boston and all the other teams are bad. last wild card spot is there for the taking.
we just went through a 7 year rebuild, no way we can do that again.
we've already added a lot of vets.
can't have a carousel of coaches.
at some point gotta stop looking at the goalies, the coaches, the vets and look at the one constant.
but that's only if we miss the playoffs.
we should be better than Boston and all the other teams are bad. last wild card spot is there for the taking.
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
Get Zub back and keep grinding. These are questions for the offseason anyways.
Agent Zuuuub
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2015
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we have to be better than
Boston
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Islanders
Detroit
Buffalo
Montreal
Philadelphia
like how can they screw that up? we might finish .550 and still make the playoffs.
Boston
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Islanders
Detroit
Buffalo
Montreal
Philadelphia
like how can they screw that up? we might finish .550 and still make the playoffs.
SpezDispenser
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2007
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frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
Realistically, this team needs a mini rebuild/retool, but the market can't handle another 5 year rebuild. The core pieces on paper are good, but it seems like this core as a unit has been damaged by the last 6 years of chaos. There is no cap flexibility to make major moves. The team also is asset poor because of the limitations of Melnyk and the choices of Dorion.
Given how few assets we have, Staios retooled everything he could this summer except for the core. For better or worse, Dorion locked in the core with the contracts he gave them.
If we are out of the playoffs by the TDL, I think they will be open for business on everybody, with the idea being that they aren't going to sell off the entire team, but they need to completely change the complexion of the organization while also gaining draft picks and cap flexibility to improve. By making everybody available, it gives them the best chance to sell high. They already put in the leg work for that last year when they apparently tried to gauge the value of the entire roster.
When I say they need another retool or rebuild, I don't mean this team is bottom 5 bad and cannot ever make the playoffs, but you have to look at it like this - most of the key players are only cost controlled for a few more seasons. There is no guarantee they stay if we keep missing the playoffs. We have no way to improve on this core because of how asset poor we are. We might be able to cycle out secondary or tertiary players, like Staios did this summer, but we don't even have the assets to go out and get a Chychrun or Debrincat or even Ullmark tier addition anymore. All of those assets are burned. So there is really no place to go with this core, and if they can't put it together they are going to spin their wheels for 2-3 years and then engage in another rebuild from a much weaker position. It's not a good spot to be in either way.
Given how few assets we have, Staios retooled everything he could this summer except for the core. For better or worse, Dorion locked in the core with the contracts he gave them.
If we are out of the playoffs by the TDL, I think they will be open for business on everybody, with the idea being that they aren't going to sell off the entire team, but they need to completely change the complexion of the organization while also gaining draft picks and cap flexibility to improve. By making everybody available, it gives them the best chance to sell high. They already put in the leg work for that last year when they apparently tried to gauge the value of the entire roster.
When I say they need another retool or rebuild, I don't mean this team is bottom 5 bad and cannot ever make the playoffs, but you have to look at it like this - most of the key players are only cost controlled for a few more seasons. There is no guarantee they stay if we keep missing the playoffs. We have no way to improve on this core because of how asset poor we are. We might be able to cycle out secondary or tertiary players, like Staios did this summer, but we don't even have the assets to go out and get a Chychrun or Debrincat or even Ullmark tier addition anymore. All of those assets are burned. So there is really no place to go with this core, and if they can't put it together they are going to spin their wheels for 2-3 years and then engage in another rebuild from a much weaker position. It's not a good spot to be in either way.
Imo it’s less a consistency problem and more a versatility problem.
The best teams win even when they’re not on their game a lot of the time, because they can beat you in so many different ways.
The Sens only win when a) the offense is clicking and they’re making nice plays all over the ice and b) when the whole team is having a strong night and it all comes together.
In an 82 game season, that’s not happening every night. So you need to be able to point at different things to help you win, whether it’s because the PK came up big, or one of our defensive pairs/centres neutralized a star player, or one of our goalies stood on their heads, or we were just opportunistic and made the team pay when they made a mistake. We don’t really win in different ways. All these things are even more important on the road and that’s why we suck there imo.
Is it youth and experience? Probably a little. Maybe there’s an element of the wrong mix in there too. Jacques was very frustrated by our game management and I think maybe instinctually these guys don’t get when and where they need to play differently.
That being said we have seen a lot of improvement this calendar year. Maybe they just need more time. If they don’t figure it out this year this core is done whether we like it or not so it’s not a question I’m gonna worry about.
The best teams win even when they’re not on their game a lot of the time, because they can beat you in so many different ways.
The Sens only win when a) the offense is clicking and they’re making nice plays all over the ice and b) when the whole team is having a strong night and it all comes together.
In an 82 game season, that’s not happening every night. So you need to be able to point at different things to help you win, whether it’s because the PK came up big, or one of our defensive pairs/centres neutralized a star player, or one of our goalies stood on their heads, or we were just opportunistic and made the team pay when they made a mistake. We don’t really win in different ways. All these things are even more important on the road and that’s why we suck there imo.
Is it youth and experience? Probably a little. Maybe there’s an element of the wrong mix in there too. Jacques was very frustrated by our game management and I think maybe instinctually these guys don’t get when and where they need to play differently.
That being said we have seen a lot of improvement this calendar year. Maybe they just need more time. If they don’t figure it out this year this core is done whether we like it or not so it’s not a question I’m gonna worry about.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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Zub and Pinto, that's two important pieces
swiftwin
★SUMMER.OF.STEVE★
- Jul 26, 2005
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Exactly. It's way too early to have this conversation.
coladin
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2009
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Repetition.
When you win the "right' way, that is the best way to realize how it's done.
These guys are really close. Give it some time for them to have this come naturally for them. Take Brady, for instance. He had a couple games of great defensive awareness and last night, he did not follow the program and he knows the results speak for themselves.
They will get this right because they are so close
When you win the "right' way, that is the best way to realize how it's done.
These guys are really close. Give it some time for them to have this come naturally for them. Take Brady, for instance. He had a couple games of great defensive awareness and last night, he did not follow the program and he knows the results speak for themselves.
They will get this right because they are so close
Sens of Anarchy
Registered User
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dumbdick
Galactic Defender
- May 31, 2008
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I think we've played well this season. Very suprised by this doom and gloom conversation right now.
Loach
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2021
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Most of the people here would boil a consommé because it takes too long to make and it's just soup anyway. Fckn savages.
An average team will by definition win as many games as they will lose, now they could do it in long winning and long losing streaks, or like they're doing now by alternating the good and the bad. None of this inconsistency is surprising to me so far. Sure, full health would help, but I'm willing to bet that by the time Pinto and Zub are back someone else will be injured. It's the nature of the game, and it seems especially true when it comes to the Sens, but it could be my Sens-centric bias.
With this core the most I expect (and would be satisfied with) is a couple of trips to the playoffs, and maybe we get lucky once we're there, kind of like in 2017. Ideally this happens this year and the next, and then we can uncontroversially (is that word? spellchecker says no) retool the core, focusing on building a better core around Stutzle, Sanderson and Yak while trading the rest.
But if they disappoint again this year, I'm not opposed to starting the retool early and get even better assets for some or all of Brady, Norris, Batherson, Chabot, Zub, etc.
With this core the most I expect (and would be satisfied with) is a couple of trips to the playoffs, and maybe we get lucky once we're there, kind of like in 2017. Ideally this happens this year and the next, and then we can uncontroversially (is that word? spellchecker says no) retool the core, focusing on building a better core around Stutzle, Sanderson and Yak while trading the rest.
But if they disappoint again this year, I'm not opposed to starting the retool early and get even better assets for some or all of Brady, Norris, Batherson, Chabot, Zub, etc.
Agree on Zub. Perron coming back with his extensive experience will also be huge.
Stay the course for now. Let’s see what Travis can do with them.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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Reverse time by about a decade and have Andy (or someone with deeeeper pockets) buy out Melynk in 2014 or so. Then invest in top end coaching, office and scouting staff, and push for a new arena asap.
Aside from that....all we can do is hold on and wait. See where the team is after xmas. Then start making plans from there.
Aside from that....all we can do is hold on and wait. See where the team is after xmas. Then start making plans from there.
L'Aveuglette
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I don't believe it is. I'm talking about an issue which is affecting us right now and while some of the ways of fixing it can only happen in the offseason, it's important to take a good long look at it now because it's sort of wild to me that they are still this inconsistent with the core being this much more experienced.
L'Aveuglette
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
swiftwin
★SUMMER.OF.STEVE★
- Jul 26, 2005
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Shit that happened years ago is not relevant when we have a new coach. We're seeing improvement under the new coach.
ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
The key now is just to play... and slightly support.
The boys have been losing for so long, I aint surprised to see them not know how to win.
We will need Ullmark above all, though. He is being paid 8.25 mil to give our team a chance almost every night while allowing the boys to try and figure it out.
The key is also to supplant the team where necessary; for example, Zub is critical part of the core, if he goes down, we need another better top 4 stop gap. We can't afford another 20 or so games of Hamonic in top 4.
We are facing a major hurdle of trying to establish an identity to win. Even cup winners like Florida and Tampa when they finally found out how to dominate, they still didn't know how to WIN. They got destroyed in playoffs first time around and then learned to win.
It is up to Staois to make adjustments every time they are necessary.
We cannot be like Boston, who can go through a few big changes and still know how to win, the main core have already been through it several times, they can afford to ride the wave, we can't. This team is fragile and needs ductaping until they are cycling on their own. This will also include injecting fresh bodies to keep things hungry in the bottom 6 like rotating Ostap, Reinhardt etc.
The boys have been losing for so long, I aint surprised to see them not know how to win.
We will need Ullmark above all, though. He is being paid 8.25 mil to give our team a chance almost every night while allowing the boys to try and figure it out.
The key is also to supplant the team where necessary; for example, Zub is critical part of the core, if he goes down, we need another better top 4 stop gap. We can't afford another 20 or so games of Hamonic in top 4.
We are facing a major hurdle of trying to establish an identity to win. Even cup winners like Florida and Tampa when they finally found out how to dominate, they still didn't know how to WIN. They got destroyed in playoffs first time around and then learned to win.
It is up to Staois to make adjustments every time they are necessary.
We cannot be like Boston, who can go through a few big changes and still know how to win, the main core have already been through it several times, they can afford to ride the wave, we can't. This team is fragile and needs ductaping until they are cycling on their own. This will also include injecting fresh bodies to keep things hungry in the bottom 6 like rotating Ostap, Reinhardt etc.
Tuna99
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- Sep 26, 2009
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I voted other;
1. Goaltending - Ullmark shows up and wins games and lots of them and I don’t care what it looks like or it’s curtains on the season, starting now WIN
2. Chemistry. Who is the leader of the bottom 6? Who’s the defensive forward that you look at and say “that’s the way the coach wants it played.” Supposed to be Pinto, but he’s always injured. Perron is out and can’t help the cause. And the top line is producing but has looked flat to me all season, Norris/Batsrson has gone cold and isn’t making an impact. Just doesn’t feel like it’s clicking
Chemistry also, when the team is flat they don’t ever have someone to spark them. It’s they either have it that night, or they don’t. Forsberg has sparked them with belief, but no skater has. Chabot, Sandy, Brady, Batherson, Norris, Stu they don’t have their Alfie, their Kane, their Beegeron when they need a spark he can turn his game up to get some belief into the team that they can win. They always seem to be waiting for something to happen, waiting for a spark, and it doesn’t come.
1. Goaltending - Ullmark shows up and wins games and lots of them and I don’t care what it looks like or it’s curtains on the season, starting now WIN
2. Chemistry. Who is the leader of the bottom 6? Who’s the defensive forward that you look at and say “that’s the way the coach wants it played.” Supposed to be Pinto, but he’s always injured. Perron is out and can’t help the cause. And the top line is producing but has looked flat to me all season, Norris/Batsrson has gone cold and isn’t making an impact. Just doesn’t feel like it’s clicking
Chemistry also, when the team is flat they don’t ever have someone to spark them. It’s they either have it that night, or they don’t. Forsberg has sparked them with belief, but no skater has. Chabot, Sandy, Brady, Batherson, Norris, Stu they don’t have their Alfie, their Kane, their Beegeron when they need a spark he can turn his game up to get some belief into the team that they can win. They always seem to be waiting for something to happen, waiting for a spark, and it doesn’t come.
jbeck5
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2009
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This. I said it somewhere else, but compare this core to the core when we started making the playoffs every year back in the day.
All our forwards were 200ft hockey players. Even havlat.
Hossa? Great defensively.
Alfredsson? Great defensively.
Bonk? Great defensively.
Arvedson? Great defensively.
Fisher? Great defensively.
White? Great defensively.
Schaefer? Great defensively.
Havlat? Top PKer and got most of his offense from turning the puck over in the neutral zone.
The list goes on. Everyone took care of their own end first and let the offense follow.
Tkachuk? Nope. Blows the zone all the time.
Stutzle? Nope. Cheats for offense all the time.
Batherson? Nope. Disappears and looks nonchalant defensively.
When your best forwards are elite defensively vs when your best forwards don't give a crap defensively and want to pad the stats.
Teach these guys how to even play a few minutes of shut down hockey...we can't even do that. No lead is ever safe. Once we teach them how to play shut down hockey, we make them play that almost all the time and then just get offense when offense presents itself.
We could use a boucher style coach, or Jacques Martin 1.0 style.
Aside from that, this core is too one dimensional so they'll never win anything of importance. Change the core up. Make trades. Draft new star players.
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