Player Discussion What is the Legacy of this Bruins Core?
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BigBadBruins7708
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Unfortunately, the same as the other great cores in the team's history. They'll be looked back on with "yeah they won X, but they should've won more"
The 30s/40s core won 2 Cups, but should've had more if not for WW2 taking Schmidt, Bauer, Dumart, Brimsek in their primes for years
The 70s core won 2 Cups, but only 2 Cups with Orr and Esposito is underachieving
The late 80s core didn't win it, looking back they really should've with Bourque, Neely and Oates
This core won it in 2011, but at a minimum should've had 2 Cups with their habit of losing series they had no business losing (2012 WSH, 2014 MTL, 2019 STL)
The 30s/40s core won 2 Cups, but should've had more if not for WW2 taking Schmidt, Bauer, Dumart, Brimsek in their primes for years
The 70s core won 2 Cups, but only 2 Cups with Orr and Esposito is underachieving
The late 80s core didn't win it, looking back they really should've with Bourque, Neely and Oates
This core won it in 2011, but at a minimum should've had 2 Cups with their habit of losing series they had no business losing (2012 WSH, 2014 MTL, 2019 STL)
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I mean, we've been the 5 most successful franchise in the past ~15 years if you look at it from the perspective of cup wins, finals appearances, playoff wins, regular season record etc. that's out of 30-32 teams, the Bruins have largely been a "2nd Best" franchise throughout their history but honestly Ill take it, 2011 was magic. even the 2013 run was so much fun, from the comeback to Rask shutting the door on the penguins after the Marathon Bombing that team was so close to picking the city up (SOX finished what the Bruins started though). other than 2019, the biggest failing this core did was not getting to the ECF more often. it seemed like it was always a struggle out of the 2nd but when they did they were off. 2nd problem of this core was their pretty bad record in Game 7s (outside of 2011 and against the leaf's unmatched failure). lost Game 7s in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2019, 2022, but win three against the leaf's and 3 in 2011 to even it out for the most point.
A- edging to B+ for five reasons:
1) 2019, there is no discussion needed we've beaten this one to death
2) 2010, really doesn't bother me anymore because they followed it up in 2011 by demoralizing the flyers but still a huge missed opportunity to make it to the finals (could have gotten past the Habs in the ECF)
3) 2009, no excuse not to get over the hump and win gm7, one of the MOST frustrating/disappointing losses I've EVER seen
4) 2014, the Bruins should have never let the f***ing Habs take them to 7 games let alone lose, that was probably the Best Bruins team of this stretch and they blew it.
5) 2018, not the playoff loss but Sweeney holding onto to Debrusk and not trading for McDonaugh because
a) we were left searching for a number 2 until we just got Lindholm
b) Tampa made that trade instead and they've been reaping the benefits since
A- edging to B+ for five reasons:
1) 2019, there is no discussion needed we've beaten this one to death
2) 2010, really doesn't bother me anymore because they followed it up in 2011 by demoralizing the flyers but still a huge missed opportunity to make it to the finals (could have gotten past the Habs in the ECF)
3) 2009, no excuse not to get over the hump and win gm7, one of the MOST frustrating/disappointing losses I've EVER seen
4) 2014, the Bruins should have never let the f***ing Habs take them to 7 games let alone lose, that was probably the Best Bruins team of this stretch and they blew it.
5) 2018, not the playoff loss but Sweeney holding onto to Debrusk and not trading for McDonaugh because
a) we were left searching for a number 2 until we just got Lindholm
b) Tampa made that trade instead and they've been reaping the benefits since
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Atlanta Braves of the '90s. They were really good, but they only won a single title when they absolutely should have won more.
JRull86
Registered User
Good, but should've been great.
Always a piece or two short due to a shitty GM post Chiarelli, and a nasty habit of losing game 7s to inferior teams (MTL in 04, Canes in 09, WSH in 12, MTL in 14, and STL in 19)
I can't lump Philly loss in there despite blowing a 3-0 lead. That team was injured, had a mediocre roster to begin with, and had no business being up 3-0.
Should've had at least 2 cups.
Always a piece or two short due to a shitty GM post Chiarelli, and a nasty habit of losing game 7s to inferior teams (MTL in 04, Canes in 09, WSH in 12, MTL in 14, and STL in 19)
I can't lump Philly loss in there despite blowing a 3-0 lead. That team was injured, had a mediocre roster to begin with, and had no business being up 3-0.
Should've had at least 2 cups.
UncleRico
Registered User
- May 8, 2017
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For me as a fan I’ll always cherish that cup, but at the same time it will always be a “what could have been” type situation because there should have been more.
TCB
Registered User
The runs been great and very entertaining as were the years from 1968-96 where the Bruins captured the two Cups led by Bobby Orr/Espo in the early 70's but zilch until 2011, but there was still a lot of Great Hockey to enjoy and many of those teams left everything all on the ice, blood sweat and tears and they made you proud to be a Bruin fan.
Some great runs and very enjoyable hockey to watch, and a tremendous amount of hate and respect built up for those Canadien teams, boy do I miss playing them 8 times a year and that rivalry, there was nothing like it. A lot of heart breaking defeats, but still a whole lot to be proud of. I only wished I would of saw a guy like Terry O'Reilly/Nifty, Bourque, Ratelle, Park, McNabb, Jonathon, Neely, Pederson, Janney ,Oates, Galley, Crowder Lemelin, Gilbert and many more all lift the Cup as members (players) of the Bruins.
This past squad laid the mark in 2011 by bringing back the Big Bad Bruins and it worked they were toughest baddest team around back in 2011 and they were a page right out of the old Bruin book, as time gone by, they've slowly crept away from that image, although still entertaining and a joy to watch as well, but deep down I feel this team should of had one more Cup along the way, but looking back on it, I thought the Orr teams should of had more as well and the Cherry coached teams, so I guess as a fan you always want more, but in the end we've had some great teams to root for.
Some great runs and very enjoyable hockey to watch, and a tremendous amount of hate and respect built up for those Canadien teams, boy do I miss playing them 8 times a year and that rivalry, there was nothing like it. A lot of heart breaking defeats, but still a whole lot to be proud of. I only wished I would of saw a guy like Terry O'Reilly/Nifty, Bourque, Ratelle, Park, McNabb, Jonathon, Neely, Pederson, Janney ,Oates, Galley, Crowder Lemelin, Gilbert and many more all lift the Cup as members (players) of the Bruins.
This past squad laid the mark in 2011 by bringing back the Big Bad Bruins and it worked they were toughest baddest team around back in 2011 and they were a page right out of the old Bruin book, as time gone by, they've slowly crept away from that image, although still entertaining and a joy to watch as well, but deep down I feel this team should of had one more Cup along the way, but looking back on it, I thought the Orr teams should of had more as well and the Cherry coached teams, so I guess as a fan you always want more, but in the end we've had some great teams to root for.
JRull86
Registered User
This is actually a really good comparison unfortunately
Saxon Eric
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- Dec 18, 2005
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I feel like there's been two different windows in the Bergeron Era that should be defined differently
08 - 14
One of the elite 3/4 teams in the league. Two SCF trips, one Cup win, one President's Trophy, multiple 2nd round trips that could have been ECF trips if not for some bad luck/outplayed. This era was defined by the Bruins stingy defense first philosophy and physical play but it has some black marks, like the Game 6 collapse, the collapse against the Flyers, being the best team in the league only to fold to Montreal in '14. A 6 year window where the Bruins were legit contenders.
Core Players: Bergeron, Krejci, Rask, Thomas, Marchand, Chara
Overall grade - A
The cup win helps cleanse the pallet of some tough playoff losses. Being one of the most physical teams in the league also made the games fun, as well as watching prime Chara and Bergeron, two sure-fire hall of famers where most of the work building their legacy stems from this period.
17 - 22(?)
The 2nd Cup window for the Bergeron era. This saw the Bruins retool on the fly and bring in some talented youth to join the older core of Bruins mainstays. One SCF trip, one President's Trophy, multiple 2nd round trips. This era was defined by a new look Bruins team philosophy of transition hockey. Much of the stingy defense first framework remained but the 2nd window saw the team switch to a less overtly physical, more transition style of play. Some of the lowpoints of this window was not coming up big at home in G7, COVID ruining the world and the Bruins ( DeBrusk losing his mojo, Rask leaving the bubble, derailing the flow of a team that was the best team in the league ), and having to run head on with a dynasty team in the Lightning. While the Bruins were still one of the elite 4/5 teams in this window and brought in some top level franchise pieces in Pasta and McAvoy, without a Cup win it's not as memorable as the prior.
Core Players: Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Chara, Rask, McAvoy, Pasta
Overall grade: B-
The gut-punch of 19 is hard to overcome without another run in this window. The inevitable victory of Father Time against some members of the original core of Bruins plus the inability to shore up some key team deficiencies by management makes this run feel like it was more cosplaying as true contenders than being legit threats. On one hand, it's understandable - the Lightning will go down as a dynasty team, COVID sucked for everyone, etc etc. But still, more could have been done.
08 - 14
One of the elite 3/4 teams in the league. Two SCF trips, one Cup win, one President's Trophy, multiple 2nd round trips that could have been ECF trips if not for some bad luck/outplayed. This era was defined by the Bruins stingy defense first philosophy and physical play but it has some black marks, like the Game 6 collapse, the collapse against the Flyers, being the best team in the league only to fold to Montreal in '14. A 6 year window where the Bruins were legit contenders.
Core Players: Bergeron, Krejci, Rask, Thomas, Marchand, Chara
Overall grade - A
The cup win helps cleanse the pallet of some tough playoff losses. Being one of the most physical teams in the league also made the games fun, as well as watching prime Chara and Bergeron, two sure-fire hall of famers where most of the work building their legacy stems from this period.
17 - 22(?)
The 2nd Cup window for the Bergeron era. This saw the Bruins retool on the fly and bring in some talented youth to join the older core of Bruins mainstays. One SCF trip, one President's Trophy, multiple 2nd round trips. This era was defined by a new look Bruins team philosophy of transition hockey. Much of the stingy defense first framework remained but the 2nd window saw the team switch to a less overtly physical, more transition style of play. Some of the lowpoints of this window was not coming up big at home in G7, COVID ruining the world and the Bruins ( DeBrusk losing his mojo, Rask leaving the bubble, derailing the flow of a team that was the best team in the league ), and having to run head on with a dynasty team in the Lightning. While the Bruins were still one of the elite 4/5 teams in this window and brought in some top level franchise pieces in Pasta and McAvoy, without a Cup win it's not as memorable as the prior.
Core Players: Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Chara, Rask, McAvoy, Pasta
Overall grade: B-
The gut-punch of 19 is hard to overcome without another run in this window. The inevitable victory of Father Time against some members of the original core of Bruins plus the inability to shore up some key team deficiencies by management makes this run feel like it was more cosplaying as true contenders than being legit threats. On one hand, it's understandable - the Lightning will go down as a dynasty team, COVID sucked for everyone, etc etc. But still, more could have been done.
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missingchicklet
Registered User
- Jan 24, 2010
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An amazing core to watch with several of my all-time favorite Bruins. Should have more than 1 Cup. Two reasons why they didn't get more than 1 Cup: 1) Goofball GM who went year after year failing to add a missing piece or two, and 2) Let themselves down in 2019 when they should have bagged the Cup, regardless of atrocious reffing.
2011 was an incredible run. 2013 they were playing with house money and exceeding expectations. 2019 will sting forever since they blew it. Some of the individuals of the core leave a great legacy, but the core itself fell short in terms of being elite over a long period of time (only 1 Cup). Doesn't matter to me ultimately what the legacy will be. All I know is that this core reinvigorated my passion for the team to the level it hadn't been since Orr. I certainly loved the team in those years in between, but guys like Z, Bergy, Looch, and Timmy took things back up a notch for me.
2011 was an incredible run. 2013 they were playing with house money and exceeding expectations. 2019 will sting forever since they blew it. Some of the individuals of the core leave a great legacy, but the core itself fell short in terms of being elite over a long period of time (only 1 Cup). Doesn't matter to me ultimately what the legacy will be. All I know is that this core reinvigorated my passion for the team to the level it hadn't been since Orr. I certainly loved the team in those years in between, but guys like Z, Bergy, Looch, and Timmy took things back up a notch for me.
BruinDust
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
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I think I'd include Lucic as well in terms of the core group if we're including Thomas.
The Bruins are the 4th most successful franchise of the post-lockout era.
TB, Pittsburgh and Chicago are above them. I don't think that is debatable anymore.
The Kings for me are not even 5th but 7th behind Washington and St. Louis. Outside of a 3 year run the Kings have either missed the playoffs or been 1st round fodder. Haven't won a single round since 2014. They've missed 5 out of the last 8 seasons. Matter of fact outside of that 2012-14 run, they've won exactly zero playoff rounds since 2001.
Outside a 2 year stretch the Caps have been consistently in the mix. The Blues have been consistently better than LA since 2005.
The Bruins are the 4th most successful franchise of the post-lockout era.
TB, Pittsburgh and Chicago are above them. I don't think that is debatable anymore.
The Kings for me are not even 5th but 7th behind Washington and St. Louis. Outside of a 3 year run the Kings have either missed the playoffs or been 1st round fodder. Haven't won a single round since 2014. They've missed 5 out of the last 8 seasons. Matter of fact outside of that 2012-14 run, they've won exactly zero playoff rounds since 2001.
Outside a 2 year stretch the Caps have been consistently in the mix. The Blues have been consistently better than LA since 2005.
Bmessy
Registered User
hockey's version of the 90s Atlanta Braves. were always around. got one, but shoulda had more.
Bmf316nhl
But there's no dog
For the sake of my argument, I define this era of Bruins hockey as starting in 07-08. new coach, new jerseys, and a new culture all came into play that year, so it's a clean break point.
While we would have like to have seen at least one more cup, this has been a very successful era in my opinion. Playoffs every year except two where they were alive going into the final game of the season. In other words, the Bruins have not played a game knowing they wouldn't be in the playoffs in this "era".
I was born in 1981, and have been a fan since age 3, however I really came of age as fan in the 90's during. bourque/moog/oates/neely days. The late 90's early 2000's were a weird time, because they had some decent teams but it seemed like the city didn't really care.
07-08 you could tell something special was percolating, and something popped with that game 6 against MTL. The city got behind this team and been behind it (for the most part) ever since. This is the legacy that I think this core will leave behind. They put the bruins and hockey back on the map and hopefully it's there to stay.
While we would have like to have seen at least one more cup, this has been a very successful era in my opinion. Playoffs every year except two where they were alive going into the final game of the season. In other words, the Bruins have not played a game knowing they wouldn't be in the playoffs in this "era".
I was born in 1981, and have been a fan since age 3, however I really came of age as fan in the 90's during. bourque/moog/oates/neely days. The late 90's early 2000's were a weird time, because they had some decent teams but it seemed like the city didn't really care.
07-08 you could tell something special was percolating, and something popped with that game 6 against MTL. The city got behind this team and been behind it (for the most part) ever since. This is the legacy that I think this core will leave behind. They put the bruins and hockey back on the map and hopefully it's there to stay.
Gonzothe7thDman
Registered User
Happy about everything breaking right in 2011 otherwise that core would be the Sharks east.
McGarnagle
Yes.
- Aug 5, 2017
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Should they have won more? Yes. But other great Bruins cores never won anything (Bourque, Neely, Oates, O'Reilly, Middleton, Park), so the fact that they got their name engraved on the cup once is a blessing.
I've softened up on their legacy the closer we get to the door slamming shut on them. There are countless instances where if Daugavins and Kelly hit those open nets, or if Seids doesn't snap his ACL and if they don't hit the post 30 times behind Carey Price in 2014, or if Kelly Sutherland calls a damn hook and/or Marchand doesn't peel off his trailer in 2019, they win more cups. I think if not for COVID they have a very good chance of winning in 2020 as well. But...it goes the other way as well. If Thomas doesn't make a sprawling save on Gionta on the 2-on-1 in game 5, if the Habs pooch a goal in OT of game 7, if the refs in game 7 against Tampa don't put the whistles away, etc. then they have no cups and are a total failure that gets blown up in 2011. So it sucks that they didn't win more than one cup (you can't tell me the Kings were a better team than the Bruins over the years 2010-2015, but they somehow got two cups to our one), but they got one and that memory will stay with me forever as something to cherish.
The other part of the question of legacy is like what do you mean when you ask that - when you look at the main core of the team over the 10 year run - Bergy. Krejci, Chara, Marchand, Rask - is it a judgment on those players if they win or don't win in the postseason? I think the failings are more on management than on the players. Seguin trade, 2015 draft, Boychuk trade, signing Belesky and Backes, etc. I don't think it's fair to call the players' status as championship material into question because management set them up to fail on occasions.
Regardless, Bergy, Chara, and Krejci are faultless. All three should have their jerseys retired. Rask is a complicated case. People naturally blame the goalie when things go sideways, for right or (more often) for wrong. There were times when Tuukka could've given us more and had bad things happen at the worst possible times. But in both 2013 and 2019 he was playing at a Conn Smythe level and had a tremendous run until his natural bad luck came out and his season ended with clunkers in each case (2019 was especially tragic considering he was the unanimous Conn Smythe if they won that and it would've turned his whole legacy around).
Marchand is the one whose legacy suffers the most from the lack of any success after 2011. His rookie year he scores 2 goals in game 7 to win the cup, you'd think he's all gravy from there, but he's made a habit of not having great playoff runs, and that line change in 2019 pretty much singlehandedly altered his entire legacy.
There's lots of factors in winning and losing championships - player effort, coaching decisions, roster construction from management, puck luck, officiating, health, etc. All of these things influenced our playoff failures in various ways, but 2019 game 7 was the one time where I'd say a boneheaded decision a player made on the ice sealed our fate. And it's not a good look on Brad. But as time goes by, we'll suppress the negative memories and remember him as the guy who scored two goals in 2011 game 7. We just need time to heal. (I don't blame Daugavins the same way because he was a crappy AHL depth guy who was only in the lineup because Campbell broke his leg and Claude didn't want to have Soderberg make his NHL debut in the finals. It was an incredibly dumb play that I'm always going to be mad about but I don't hold it against him in the same way I hold 2019 against Marchand because Brad should know better).
I've softened up on their legacy the closer we get to the door slamming shut on them. There are countless instances where if Daugavins and Kelly hit those open nets, or if Seids doesn't snap his ACL and if they don't hit the post 30 times behind Carey Price in 2014, or if Kelly Sutherland calls a damn hook and/or Marchand doesn't peel off his trailer in 2019, they win more cups. I think if not for COVID they have a very good chance of winning in 2020 as well. But...it goes the other way as well. If Thomas doesn't make a sprawling save on Gionta on the 2-on-1 in game 5, if the Habs pooch a goal in OT of game 7, if the refs in game 7 against Tampa don't put the whistles away, etc. then they have no cups and are a total failure that gets blown up in 2011. So it sucks that they didn't win more than one cup (you can't tell me the Kings were a better team than the Bruins over the years 2010-2015, but they somehow got two cups to our one), but they got one and that memory will stay with me forever as something to cherish.
The other part of the question of legacy is like what do you mean when you ask that - when you look at the main core of the team over the 10 year run - Bergy. Krejci, Chara, Marchand, Rask - is it a judgment on those players if they win or don't win in the postseason? I think the failings are more on management than on the players. Seguin trade, 2015 draft, Boychuk trade, signing Belesky and Backes, etc. I don't think it's fair to call the players' status as championship material into question because management set them up to fail on occasions.
Regardless, Bergy, Chara, and Krejci are faultless. All three should have their jerseys retired. Rask is a complicated case. People naturally blame the goalie when things go sideways, for right or (more often) for wrong. There were times when Tuukka could've given us more and had bad things happen at the worst possible times. But in both 2013 and 2019 he was playing at a Conn Smythe level and had a tremendous run until his natural bad luck came out and his season ended with clunkers in each case (2019 was especially tragic considering he was the unanimous Conn Smythe if they won that and it would've turned his whole legacy around).
Marchand is the one whose legacy suffers the most from the lack of any success after 2011. His rookie year he scores 2 goals in game 7 to win the cup, you'd think he's all gravy from there, but he's made a habit of not having great playoff runs, and that line change in 2019 pretty much singlehandedly altered his entire legacy.
There's lots of factors in winning and losing championships - player effort, coaching decisions, roster construction from management, puck luck, officiating, health, etc. All of these things influenced our playoff failures in various ways, but 2019 game 7 was the one time where I'd say a boneheaded decision a player made on the ice sealed our fate. And it's not a good look on Brad. But as time goes by, we'll suppress the negative memories and remember him as the guy who scored two goals in 2011 game 7. We just need time to heal. (I don't blame Daugavins the same way because he was a crappy AHL depth guy who was only in the lineup because Campbell broke his leg and Claude didn't want to have Soderberg make his NHL debut in the finals. It was an incredibly dumb play that I'm always going to be mad about but I don't hold it against him in the same way I hold 2019 against Marchand because Brad should know better).
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
This just earned you 20% off an "EverettMike Is Always Right" t-shirt.
Hoping to have the hoodies in before fall.
RussellmaniaKW
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 19,724
- 21,845
you're massively undervaluing cup wins
BruinDust
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
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You mean the Kings? They have one more. One.
We are talking a nearly 20 year stretch of time here. They've (LA) been consistently bad more than consistently good.
HooperDrivesTheBoat
2010-2011 CHAMPS!!!
Yeah, well said on both quoted above. I became a fan in ‘88 so a lot of agita back then, even as a neophyte fan. The justification for me at the time was the Oilers and, eventually, the Penguins were powerhouses so that abated some of the disappointment.
During this era, it’s a real tragedy (in the sporting fanatic sense, not real world) that the Bruins couldn’t at least get 2 Cups out of the core. June 12, 2019 will go down as the most disappointed Ive been at a loss in my almost 35 years as a fan. Plenty of blame to go around, I guess, including some of the players that came up small when it mattered. It doesn’t take away from the blessing that was the 2011 magical run, but, in my opinion, it doesn’t cement them in the TB/Chicago/LA/Pitt grouping of champions since 2010.
f*** it still bothers me
That Blues roster that won was an embarrassment. They legit bullied and bitched their way to a Cup.
Anyway, well said gentlemen.
Sheppy
Registered User
They bullied the Bruins. I have no issue with that.Yeah, well said on both quoted above. I became a fan in ‘88 so a lot of agita back then, even as a neophyte fan. The justification for me at the time was the Oilers and, eventually, the Penguins were powerhouses so that abated some of the disappointment.
During this era, it’s a real tragedy (in the sporting fanatic sense, not real world) that the Bruins couldn’t at least get 2 Cups out of the core. June 12, 2019 will go down as the most disappointed Ive been at a loss in my almost 35 years as a fan. Plenty of blame to go around, I guess, including some of the players that came up small when it mattered. It doesn’t take away from the blessing that was the 2011 magical run, but, in my opinion, it doesn’t cement them in the TB/Chicago/LA/Pitt grouping of champions since 2010.
f*** it still bothers me
That Blues roster that won was an embarrassment. They legit bullied and bitched their way to a Cup.
Anyway, well said gentlemen.
quietbruinfan
Salt and light
I disagree, they are right where they belong, winning 1 cup. They were not even the best team in the East in 2011, Pittsburgh was. Washington was very close but Tampa and their 1-3-1 upset both of them.
BruinDust
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
- 25,129
- 23,761
Based on what? The fact the Caps and Pens had 4 and 3 more points in the regular season than the Bruins respectively? Your talking two wins and win and a OT loss. Bruins beat both in goal differential and if I'm not mistaken were the best team statistically 5 on 5 that year.
I'll be honest I've never seen a fanbase try to disregard the accomplishments of their own team more than Bruins fans.
