What is considered a weak team come PO time?

[Fatass]

Taking into account early season hype, regular season success, and individual (regular season) player performances, it’s got to be the Leafs.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Edmonton is a damn good team, arguably the best in the league. There's no shame in LA losing to them. They're not a weak team, they're just not Edmonton good.

 

[PistolPete]

This would be impractical without a balanced schedule, which is impractical in itself because of how large the geographic footprint of the league is.

Imagine the travel involved if you had each team play 62 games (one game at home and one game away against all 31 other teams in the league).

But they already do- plus 20 more games on top of that!

So it would simply be a matter of taking road trips and having home stands still.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I just saw a poster claim LA was weak, a team that finished 4th overall in the conference.

I see many people claim various teams, divisions, or one of the conferences is weak and that is why Team X got through to the proceeding rounds.

If a 4th place team is weak, what is not weak? I'm especially intrigued by this given the RS standings see teams spread by 10 wins or so from 1 to 8 and 2 or 3 when we're taking about two or three seeds apart.

So I am really curious as to what renders a team weak in the eyes of those who like to throw that term around.

Did a team you dislike go further than you wanted? Then they beat bad teams.

It’s that simple on HF

 

[PistolPete]

Did a team you dislike go further than you wanted? Then they beat bad teams.

It’s that simple on HF

I've noticed that pattern.

 

[Rorschach]

LA is weak as a playoff team because they are weak down the middle. And lack several key core players.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Montreal

 

[PistolPete]

LA is weak as a playoff team because they are weak down the middle. And lack several key core players.

Is there any team that doesn't have a weakness re: roster?

 

[JaegerDice]

Is there any team that doesn't have a weakness re: roster?

No.

The only way to have the 'perfect' roster would be to have the very best player at every position, in their ideal position.

Even without a cap that's impossible.

 

[Rorschach]

Is there any team that doesn't have a weakness re: roster?

Not sure that question applies. Bottom line is this: there are certain players that if the opponent has and you don’t, it will lose you at least 1-2 games per series. LA is missing all of them. Playoffs aren’t about regular season records as the playoff-style game is very different than the regular season game. Playoffs are about matchups.

 

[PistolPete]

Not sure that question applies. Bottom line is this: there are certain players that if the opponent has and you don’t, it will lose you at least 1-2 games per series. LA is missing all of them. Playoffs aren’t about regular season records as the playoff-style game is very different than the regular season game. Playoffs are about matchups.

Then what are the RS games about?
(Not trying to be a smart ass, just enjoying the convo)

 

[hockeyguy0022]

I've said for the entirety of Torontos core 4 that they would never go far with that group, and I've been right the entire time. All the same type of player, bad team composition, not a team. all individuals.

 

[Zarzh]

Then what are the RS games about?
(Not trying to be a smart ass, just enjoying the convo)

Doing what you want to do while trying to beat the other team at what they're trying to do. The playoffs are more about stopping the other team from doing what they're trying to do.

 

[PistolPete]

Doing what you want to do while trying to beat the other team at what they're trying to do.

Isn't the preceding the same as the proceedings part? In order to beat tgr other team at what they're trying to do don't you have to stop them from doing what they're trying to do?

The playoffs are more about stopping the other team from doing what they're trying to do.

 

[Zarzh]

Isn't the preceding the same as the proceedings part? In order to beat tgr other team at what they're trying to do don't you have to stop them from doing what they're trying to do?

No, your thing just has to be better than their thing.

To use Winnipeg as an example they have excessively high offensive zone starts for their offensive players which when combined with elite goaltending can win a lot of regular season games. Doesn't work when teams scout each other more closely and players are willing to sacrifice the body more.

 

[LaCarriere]

Playoff game after playoff game.
Series after series.
Round one after round one.

There is an HF trope that there is a Stanley Cup champ and 31 losers. So SJ and Edmonton were tied last year for instance.

I don't subscribe to that. Ive posted the top playoff teams in the 2020s and Dallas is absolutely on that list. 6 teams are well ahead of the rest .. Tampa, Edmonton, Florida, Dallas, AVS and canes.

I think you can easily add Vegas to that list as well, especially if you go back to the 2018 playoffs and look at the current "expansion era" of Vegas/Seattle. Won the cup, been to the finals, and two conference finals appearances. Pretty good, especially for an expansion team, even with the favourable draft rules they were given.

There's another thread to rank all the eliminated / non finals teams from this years playoffs, and quite a few people have the leafs above many of these 6-7 teams. It's hilarious.

https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/rank-the-eliminated-teams.3005889/

Regular season results matter, in the sense that it determines the playoff bracket, and points provide an easy and simple numerical way to rank teams, but playoff success (including deep runs not resulting in a cup) absoultely indicates who the tier S teams are, compared to the rest.

 

[Castle8130]

Weak or bad? You could consider Toronto a weak team and St Louis a strong team, but Toronto is still a more difficult opponent come playoff time.

New Jersey, Carolina, and Toronto could be considered teams that are weak. They can easily get bullied by superior teams.

 

[Rorschach]

Not sure that question applies. Bottom line is this: there are certain players that if the opponent has and you don’t, it will lose you at least 1-2 games per series. LA is missing all of them. Playoffs aren’t about regular season records as the playoff-style game is very different than the regular season game. Playoffs are about matchups.

To sell tickets, get TV money, etc. Also to reward losing with better draft picks and to a slight extent, to set playoff seeding.

 

[PistolPete]

I think you can easily add Vegas to that list as well, especially if you go back to the 2018 playoffs and look at the current "expansion era" of Vegas/Seattle. Won the cup, been to the finals, and two conference finals appearances. Pretty good, especially for an expansion team, even with the favourable draft rules they were given.

Didn't Seattle have the exact same draft rules and have missed the PO three times in 4 seasons?

There's another thread to rank all the eliminated / non finals teams from this years playoffs, and quite a few people have the leafs above many of these 6-7 teams. It's hilarious.

https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/rank-the-eliminated-teams.3005889/

Regular season results matter, in the sense that it determines the playoff bracket, and points provide an easy and simple numerical way to rank teams, but playoff success (including deep runs not resulting in a cup) absoultely indicates who the tier S teams are, compared to the rest.

What is tier S?

 

[Czechboy]

I think you can easily add Vegas to that list as well, especially if you go back to the 2018 playoffs and look at the current "expansion era" of Vegas/Seattle. Won the cup, been to the finals, and two conference finals appearances. Pretty good, especially for an expansion team, even with the favourable draft rules they were given.

There's another thread to rank all the eliminated / non finals teams from this years playoffs, and quite a few people have the leafs above many of these 6-7 teams. It's hilarious.

https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/rank-the-eliminated-teams.3005889/

Regular season results matter, in the sense that it determines the playoff bracket, and points provide an easy and simple numerical way to rank teams, but playoff success (including deep runs not resulting in a cup) absoultely indicates who the tier S teams are, compared to the rest.

100 percent I forgot Vegas. My bad.lol

 

[Chet Manley]

The regular season and playoffs have separate rulebooks and require different things from people. Recent example; the Oilers got Henrique at the deadline last season and immediately looked too slow to be the teams 3c. Maybe just fast enough for a 3l with Ryan McLoud taking centre as the guy that could cover the entire rink in a blink. Come playoff time things get heavy. Henrique is slowish but has the ability to play heavy though all the cheap shit they allow in playoffs. He can go anywhere he pleases and contribute everywhere especially in front of the nets. McLeod, a superior regular season player, gets regulated to living on the perimeter loses his 3c job to the old, slow guy. All this season, Henrique looked too slow for 3c and McLeod it light up in Buffalo and I kept telling people Henrique is just stronger come playoffs so was the one to keep.

TLDR having different rules for playoffs is going to be responsible for a big part of "considered a weak team come PO time". If refs decide to have a "let 'em play" game than Mitch Mariner will look like bum against teams that can exploit that better than most.

 

[Rorschach]

Is there any team that doesn't have a weakness re: roster?

That’s neither here nor there. It’s like comparing dented fenders to a fused engine block. A car can have “weakness” but there are different types of such that can render a car drivable still or not. LA is built for regular season. It’s not built for the tight defensive game where it’s all about matchups that is the NHL playoffs.

 

[Fatass]

That’s neither here nor there. It’s like comparing dented fenders to a fused engine block. A car can have “weakness” but there are different types of such that can render a car drivable still or not. LA is built for regular season. It’s not built for the tight defensive game where it’s all about matchups that is the NHL playoffs.

But this Kings’ roster does consistently make the playoffs. Weak teams are the ones that miss.

 

[bert]

I just saw a poster claim LA was weak, a team that finished 4th overall in the conference.

I see many people claim various teams, divisions, or one of the conferences is weak and that is why Team X got through to the proceeding rounds.

If a 4th place team is weak, what is not weak? I'm especially intrigued by this given the RS standings see teams spread by 10 wins or so from 1 to 8 and 2 or 3 when we're taking about two or three seeds apart.

So I am really curious as to what renders a team weak in the eyes of those who like to throw that term around.

Id say the Habs are what would qualify as a weak playoff team this year. They were the only weak team this year from a results and statistical analysis. As they were the only team that lost more games than they won this season that got in and they were one of only two teams with a negative goal differential. Minnesota was the other team that had a negative goal differential.

 

[bert]

There are a lot of numbers you can look to that show these teams in a weak light, but the most basic one that even most anti-analytics people tend to begrudgingly accept is goal differential.

All three teams were outscored at 5v5 this season.

Now, funny enough, so was Edmonton (albeit, by much less), but there were a bunch of other 5v5 stats demonstrating that they actually held control of play, and were pretty much screwed by goaltending and shooting percentage.

Ottawa had a winning record and a positive goal differential. The game isnt only played 5 on 5. Silly way to do a breakdown.

Actual record and goal differential should be the litmus test. Only Minnesota and Montreal had negative goal differentials and only Montreal had a losing record.