What happened to the 2003 Red Wings?

[JianYang]

Are the 03 Devils one of the weakest teams to ever win it? Their D and goaltending was amazing but that O just seems so middling.

02-03 playoffs were generally pretty forgettable aside from giguere's heorics up to the cup final.

I don't recall anyone really saying that new jersey were surprise winners though. It was their 3rd final in 4 years. Alot of the core was the same.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

02-03 playoffs were generally pretty forgettable aside from giguere's heorics up to the cup final.

I don't recall anyone really saying that new jersey were surprise winners though. It was their 3rd final in 4 years. Alot of the core was the same.

I feel like this was true on defense but was it really true on offense? This was post-A line for example.

 

[JianYang]

I feel like this was true on defense but was it really true on offense? This was post-A line for example.

Yeah, it wasn't exactly the same but the foundational blueprint under lou always came back to structure and unselfishness.

It was a great fit for pat burns brand of hockey who was already known for toughness and defensive play in the late 80s when alot of teams were not.

Lou has mentioned before that the Habs were the team he tried to mimick when he was building up the Devils, and it also shows up when you see the number of coaches he's hired with Montreal roots.... in fact it holds true to this day on long Island.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yeah, it wasn't exactly the same but the foundational blueprint under lou always came back to structure and unselfishness.

It was a great fit for pat burns brand of hockey who was already known for toughness and defensive play in the late 80s when alot of teams were not.

Lou has mentioned before that the Habs were the team he tried to mimick when he was building up the Devils, and it also shows up when you see the number of coaches he's hired with Montreal roots.... in fact it holds true to this day on long Island.

Weren't those Habs teams more well rounded rather than defensive?

 

[MadLuke]

Weren't those Habs teams more well rounded rather than defensive?

as cup final level team, they were all-around quite good, but Burns habs:

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Best by a giant amount defensive team in the nhl, mediocre/below average offensively

Carbonneau-Keane-McPhee, Skrudland
Svoboda-Desjadrins-Lefebvre-Daingeault-Ludwig, bit of Chelios/Odelein, Roy and Burns coaching.

Number of MTLs getting selke votes by season
89: 5
90: 4
91: 3
92: 4

Carbonneau won 2.

 

[Michael Farkas]

The Devils offense in '03 was fine. Not spectacular, but better than you're giving it credit for. I'm not sure which offense between the '93 and '86 Habs I'd actually take over the '03 Devils to be honest. It's at least close.

The post-dynasty Habs looked more defensive to me than the juggernaut teams from the previous generation. It's just a matter of roster strength at a certain point.

 

[JianYang]

Weren't those Habs teams more well rounded rather than defensive?

I probably have to take a deeper dive but my initial thought is that we are splitting hairs.

The 80s Habs had coaches like lemaire and burns. Then you look at the selke power of gainey and carbonneau.

At one point the defense was so deep on the main roster and pipeline that you could probably ice 2 very good units.

In 1989 the names on the big roster and pipeline included:

Robinson
Chelios
Desjardins
Schneider
Odelein
Lumme
Sean Hill
Lefebvre
Ludwig
Green
Svoboda
Brisebois

Point being they were mainly predicated on defense.... and even the 70s, bowman was structurally sound, and the big three on defense are usually the first thing old opposing players talk about when talking about them.

I think there are alot of parallels with Lou's Devils and particularly the 80s habs.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I probably have to take a deeper dive but my initial thought is that we are splitting hairs.

The 80s Habs had coaches like lemaire and burns. Then you look at the selke power of gainey and carbonneau.

At one point the defense was so deep on the main roster and pipeline that you could probably ice 2 very good units.

In 1989 the names on the big roster and pipeline included:

Robinson
Chelios
Desjardins
Schneider
Odelein
Lumme
Sean Hill
Lefebvre
Ludwig
Green
Svoboda
Brisebois

Point being they were mainly predicated on defense.... and even the 70s, bowman was structurally sound, and the big three on defense are usually the first thing old opposing players talk about when talking about them.

I think there are alot of parallels with Lou's Devils and particularly the 80s habs.

To be honest I was thinking about the 70s Habs, not the 80s Habs.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Are the 03 Devils one of the weakest teams to ever win it? Their D and goaltending was amazing but that O just seems so middling.

The 2019 Blues with their +5 Playoff Goal Differential, 99 points in a post-Overtime/Shootout Wins Era, didn't do much of note in the surrounding years before/after, and to the extent they remain the default "if they were good enough, why not our team?" kinda team, I think they're sort of in a category by themselves in the expanded NHL. A lot of random teams make the Stanley Cup Final here and there but seem to lose, they're the one that just happened to win.

 

[Hobnobs]

Are the 03 Devils one of the weakest teams to ever win it? Their D and goaltending was amazing but that O just seems so middling.

No I dont think so. Yes, they had middling offense but it was consistent and they kept that scoring rate up in the playoffs when pretty much everybody elses faultered. So their middling offense during the regular season was 3rd best in the playoffs.

I'd rate Habs '93 and Blues '19 teams as weaker for example.

 

[GMR]

Was there ever a more unwatchable series than Ducks/Wild?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Was there ever a more unwatchable series than Ducks/Wild?

If there is, I haven't found it. I don't mind defensive hockey, I don't mind checking...I'll still be just as glued to my seat for a 1-0 game...but this was a particularly egregious series. It was basically like pre-forward pass hockey haha