What happened to the 2003 Red Wings?

[SnowblindNYR]

I know they got stonewalled by Giguere but from what I remember they returned most of their juggernaut super team from the year before other than Hasek. But they had Cujo who is probably better than Vernon and Osgood. That sweep was probably every bit as shocking as the Lightning in 2019.

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[Brodeur]

Anaheim was quietly very good in the 2nd half of that season. Going into that series, I thought Detroit would win but that the Ducks would be a harder out than most were expecting. Both teams had similar 2nd half records:

Anaheim: 25-11-2-3
Detroit: 25-10-3-3

Quick look at the rosters and Detroit was a little top heavy on the blue line. In the Anaheim series:

Lidstrom: 33:35
Schneider: 28:16
Dandenault: 25:51
Chelios: 25:43
Woolley: 15:25
Bykov: 11:14

Jiri Fischer missed that postseason after a knee injury in November. Dandenault (13:29) had been a #6 defenseman the previous playoff. And maybe this was around the time Chelios was starting to slow down?

Despite that, Detroit did handily outshoot Anaheim in that series.

 

[Oddbob]

I know they got stonewalled by Giguere but from what I remember they returned most of their juggernaut super team from the year before other than Hasek. But they had Cujo who is probably better than Vernon and Osgood. That sweep was probably every bit as shocking as the Lightning in 2019.

It was mostly Giguere. He was unreal that playoff, especially in this particular series. The Wings dominated all 4 games, but couldn't score. Cujo let a couple of not great goals in as well, which were made worse by Giguere going Conn Smythe on the Wings.

As a Wings fan, the only series that we lost that sucked more was the 1994 Sharks playoff defeat as we were even heavier favourites in that one. 2003 was definitely more boring though with it being the height of the dead puck era in 2003.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It was mostly Giguere. He was unreal that playoff, especially in this particular series. The Wings dominated all 4 games, but couldn't score. Cujo let a couple of not great goals in as well, which were made worse by Giguere going Conn Smythe on the Wings.

A bit of digression but did NJ do things differently or did Giguere just not keep up his ridiculous play because he's human?

 

[Oddbob]

A bit of digression but did NJ do things differently or did Giguere just not keep up his ridiculous play because he's human?

Probably a little of both. NJ was very trap heavy as we all know, so that probably hurt Anaheim as well. Also, Detroit got one goal off of 64 shots in one of the games, and New Jersey scored 6 off of 37 in one of the Finals games. I think he was probably tiring quite a bit. He also only gave up 1 goal in the whole Minnesota series just to put in perspective how awesome he was.

 

[The Panther]

Here's the Red Wings taking the ice in 2003:

 

[bobholly39]

I know they got stonewalled by Giguere but from what I remember they returned most of their juggernaut super team from the year before other than Hasek. But they had Cujo who is probably better than Vernon and Osgood. That sweep was probably every bit as shocking as the Lightning in 2019.

I don't think Lightning 2019 is a good comparable.

Lighting completely choked. That's 100% on them, and shame on them. And I say this as someone who believes that Lightning core is the best core of the cap era.

Detroit 2003 is more like Capitals 2010 who got Halak'd. Tried super hard, every way possible, but the goalie on the other side was just inhuman, completely unbeatable.

 

[JackSlater]

Giguere was the main problem in terms of making it a sweep. Babcock had Anaheim playing a fairly effective style for the time though, and generally Detroit was a very old team that was always going to be worse than the year before and going to be worse the longer the playoffs went on. Not that they went on very long for Detroit. There were other things like Yzerman being a physical wreck that year and Fedorov's contract situation looming, though Fedorov himself was Detroit's best player against Anaheim.

 

[The Panther]

What happened to Luc Robitaille that season? He did quite well in 2001-02. With only 14:50 ice-time per game, he still banged in 30 goals. (I believe his goals / 60 was higher than Brett Hull's.)

Then, in 2002-03, just 11 goals in 81 games and a dismal 7.4 shooting percentage (less than half that of one year earlier).

 

[WarriorofTime]

Old. They were old a year earlier too, but another year on all those old guys goes a long way. They could have used more out of Datsyuk and Zetterberg that particular Series.

 

[MadLuke]

They still had a 110 pts season and outshouts their playoff opponent 42.8 shots to 30.

Yzerman knee and others part were aging out, but a lot of the answer is the ducks, the league needed a game 7 in the final to beat them for a reason.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

"They ran into Giguere" is a good answer, but I think there's more to it.

Keep in mind that Scotty Bowman retired after 2002 (when the Red Wings won the Cup). The 2003 edition seemed far more focused on the regular season than they should have been. (This is pure speculation, but maybe new coach Dave Lewis wanted to show that it wasn't just Bowman who could put together a 100+ point team?)

As of February 9th, the Red Wings had a 27-17-9-2 record. A bit below their potential, but they weren't in a bad spot. They were still T-7th in leaguewide standings (and #4 in their conference). They could have cruised into a playoff spot. Instead, they played their best hockey of the season during the final months. From Feb 10th onwards, they had the best record in the league (21-3-1-2). I think Lewis should have had the team take their foot off the gas pedal. Why do you need the reigning Stanley Cup champions, who had one of the oldest cores in NHL history, to win 83% of their games down the stretch?

Look at how hard Lewis rode Lidstrom and Chelios during the final two months. They ranked 3rd and 5th in the entire league in SH TOI during that period (Lidstrom was 5th in total TOI; Chelios was lower because he didn't go on the powerplay, but he was near the top in terms of harder ES+PK minutes). They would have been better rested for the playoffs, had they got a minute or two less per game. Why did Fedorov get 24:26 in the 2nd last game of the season, a completely meaningless match against a non playoff team? In the final game of the season (against a non playoff team, and with the division title already locked up) why did Lidstrom get 29:23 (especially when he was north of 31 minutes the game before!)

There are other examples, but the point is - I think Lewis lost perspective on what was important for this team, and rode his stars too hard in the regular season, which would have caused problems in the playoffs, Giguere or not.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

What happened to Luc Robitaille that season? He did quite well in 2001-02. With only 14:50 ice-time per game, he still banged in 30 goals. (I believe his goals / 60 was higher than Brett Hull's.)

Then, in 2002-03, just 11 goals in 81 games and a dismal 7.4 shooting percentage (less than half that of one year earlier).

There's an ESPN Behind the Scenes Series about Red Wings 2002-2003 and I recall him moaning about the lack of game time and being snake bitten.

Ah here's the full version:

 

[jigglysquishy]

"They ran into Giguere" is a good answer, but I think there's more to it.

Keep in mind that Scotty Bowman retired after 2002 (when the Red Wings won the Cup). The 2003 edition seemed far more focused on the regular season than they should have been. (This is pure speculation, but maybe new coach Dave Lewis wanted to show that it wasn't just Bowman who could put together a 100+ point team?)

As of February 9th, the Red Wings had a 27-17-9-2 record. A bit below their potential, but they weren't in a bad spot. They were still T-7th in leaguewide standings (and #4 in their conference). They could have cruised into a playoff spot. Instead, they played their best hockey of the season during the final months. From Feb 10th onwards, they had the best record in the league (21-3-1-2). I think Lewis should have had the team take their foot off the gas pedal. Why do you need the reigning Stanley Cup champions, who had one of the oldest cores in NHL history, to win 83% of their games down the stretch?

Look at how hard Lewis rode Lidstrom and Chelios during the final two months. They ranked 3rd and 5th in the entire league in SH TOI during that period (Lidstrom was 5th in total TOI; Chelios was lower because he didn't go on the powerplay, but he was near the top in terms of harder ES+PK minutes). They would have been better rested for the playoffs, had they got a minute or two less per game. Why did Fedorov get 24:26 in the 2nd last game of the season, a completely meaningless match against a non playoff team? In the final game of the season (against a non playoff team, and with the division title already locked up) why did Lidstrom get 29:23 (especially when he was north of 31 minutes the game before!)

There are other examples, but the point is - I think Lewis lost perspective on what was important for this team, and rode his stars too hard in the regular season, which would have caused problems in the playoffs, Giguere or not.

This is a really good point and something we've seen become a pattern post lockout.

The 6 highest point totals by a team post lockout all failed to win a Cup. And 16 of the top 17.

Most at the top won a different year with their core (Florida 2022, Detroit 2006, Washington 2016 and 2017, Tampa 2019). I think to reach that upper echelon of point totals you need to expend lots of energy and play your guys more than needed.

I just finishes Bryan Trottier's book. He notes that it was only well the team stopped focusing on regular season awards/success that they had the energy to become a dynasty.

 

[Oddbob]

"They ran into Giguere" is a good answer, but I think there's more to it.

Keep in mind that Scotty Bowman retired after 2002 (when the Red Wings won the Cup). The 2003 edition seemed far more focused on the regular season than they should have been. (This is pure speculation, but maybe new coach Dave Lewis wanted to show that it wasn't just Bowman who could put together a 100+ point team?)

As of February 9th, the Red Wings had a 27-17-9-2 record. A bit below their potential, but they weren't in a bad spot. They were still T-7th in leaguewide standings (and #4 in their conference). They could have cruised into a playoff spot. Instead, they played their best hockey of the season during the final months. From Feb 10th onwards, they had the best record in the league (21-3-1-2). I think Lewis should have had the team take their foot off the gas pedal. Why do you need the reigning Stanley Cup champions, who had one of the oldest cores in NHL history, to win 83% of their games down the stretch?

Look at how hard Lewis rode Lidstrom and Chelios during the final two months. They ranked 3rd and 5th in the entire league in SH TOI during that period (Lidstrom was 5th in total TOI; Chelios was lower because he didn't go on the powerplay, but he was near the top in terms of harder ES+PK minutes). They would have been better rested for the playoffs, had they got a minute or two less per game. Why did Fedorov get 24:26 in the 2nd last game of the season, a completely meaningless match against a non playoff team? In the final game of the season (against a non playoff team, and with the division title already locked up) why did Lidstrom get 29:23 (especially when he was north of 31 minutes the game before!)

There are other examples, but the point is - I think Lewis lost perspective on what was important for this team, and rode his stars too hard in the regular season, which would have caused problems in the playoffs, Giguere or not.

I highly doubt focus on regular season stuff had anything to do with it. You are talking about a team that had Yzerman, Fedorov and and Lidstrom from the 1995-1996, 62 win team that lost. They long knew regular season meant very little. Lewis was clearly not as good of a coach, but they still heavily outplayed Anaheim in that series and were only outscored 10-6. Not like they were trounced or something.

 

[JianYang]

I don't think Lightning 2019 is a good comparable.

Lighting completely choked. That's 100% on them, and shame on them. And I say this as someone who believes that Lightning core is the best core of the cap era.

Detroit 2003 is more like Capitals 2010 who got Halak'd. Tried super hard, every way possible, but the goalie on the other side was just inhuman, completely unbeatable.

Did the Ducks have a forward who just torched the wings that year the way cammalleri did to the Caps and penguins? I remember giguere but those types of performances sometimes overshadow other remarkable performances on a club.

I recall cammalleri led the 2010 playoffs with 13 goals, the vast majority of which came against the Caps and pens that year.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

they were old and they replaced Hasek with Cujo

 

[MadLuke]

Not sure Joseph 2.08 GAA was a factor here, they had a 100% pk, allowing 10 goals in 4 losts is not specially big.

They only scored 6 goals.

The mighty and arguably better Dallas Stars lost to the same team that year, we could be asking the same.

 

[GMR]

That was the beginning of an alarming trend, which continued in 2004 and 2006, with Detroit losing to underdog teams with hot goalies and a roster full of jobbers, that same team eventually making a miracle playoff run only to lose in game 7 of the Finals on the road.

The Hockey Gods had some fun with us during those years for sure. The Wings won the Presidents Trophy in 2004 and 2006. In 2003, they finished just a few points behind the top seed. All those teams were predicted to have better playoff runs. Just couldn't score enough goals, gave up untimely goals, lost physical battles to grittier teams, didn't have a plan B, etc.

 

[Terry Yake]

they were old and giguere was a wall

 

[Crosby2010]

It has been mentioned, but age was a factor. Also, I thought the 2002 team was one of those sort of "farewell" tours. This was a great team, one with several veterans that hadn't won yet (Robitaille, Hasek, Duchesne) and the last hurrah for Bowman and there was also that pay cut Yzerman and Shanahan took to bring in those other guys. I always thought the Wings of 2002 and the Avs of 2001 were similar teams. Both finished 1st overall in points, both had that sentiment of them winning and both seemed to put all of their eggs in one basket. In both cases I never felt the team with each of them the following year was the same as the one previous. It wasn't just Hasek with the Wings as he was gone. It was Yzerman and his knees and playing in only 16 games. In 2002 he was hurt in the Olympics and I know for sure he was hurt in the 2002 playoffs. But it is almost as if he emptied the tank out for one last Cup, and it showed. Yzerman was never the same player after 2002, he was much different by 2003. Also they had Fedorov sort of leading the team and I don't know if that role ever suited him. He always had Yzerman to lean on, and he didn't this year.

Detroit just wasn't the "it" team in 2003. Ottawa was. Maybe even Vancouver to an extent. And they were ancient. Is it any surprise that a team that emptied the tank in 2002 ran out of gas and wasn't quite the same team the year after? Joseph isn't known as a playoff goalie either, although he normally stole a series in the 1st round, he didn't here.

Lastly, Giguere stole this series. Detroit badly outshot them in every game except the last, in which they still outshot them. The Wings had all of the above problems, but they were still a better team than Anaheim. Age or not, banged up or not, Bowman for..............Dave Lewis or not, this team still should have beaten the Ducks blindfolded. I just think that triple overtime loss in Game 1 sort of set the tone. Reminds me of Tampa in 2019 losing Game 1. It sort of deflated them losing a game they easily should have won. Maybe there was a mental game after that with the Wings.

Lastly, maybe we aren't emphasizing the loss of Bowman enough. The same thing happened to the Habs after 1979. Sure the Habs were still good in 1980, just like the Wings in 2003, but they lost to a team they shouldn't have, just like the 2003 Wings, and Bowman was gone from both of those teams. I don't think the greatest coach in NHL history leaving should be ignored. Even St. Louis never made a Cup final again after Bowman left them. It can't be a coincidence. And I don't think Lewis was head coach material either.

 

[MadLuke]

this team still should have beaten the Ducks blindfolded.

The very good Dallas stars did non, the very good Devils did not.

I am not sure those team should be seen inferior to the Red Wings by 2003, both arguably as good regular season and were loaded.

If there is 3 really great team in a row having a lot of trouble with the same team, they can start to have some credit as hard to beat. And the only team they faced a team that was not one of the best team of all time in the Wild (still a solid very well coached opponent), they won in 4, allowing a single goal.... 9GF-1GA

There is a bit of goaltender not fully part of the team mentality we can have or a goaltender hot streak not being the same as a Joe Sakic-Malkin hot streak, but for the team that try to win it is not different.