What does Bedard have to do to make Team Canada?

[Mr Positive]

Bedard hasn't hit his potential yet. I bet he will show signs of it, hopefully in time for Olympic selection

 

[nbwingsfan]

Beaded might be behind Fantili too.

Hahaha WHAT

 

[nbwingsfan]

Get better defensively, his defensive game shows on the record

Last 2 years stats combined, he's second worst in +/-

View attachment 982784

Two Chicago and 3 SJ players on that list. Do you think those are the 5 worst players in the league defensively? Or guys who played a lot on the two (by far) worst teams in the league?

 

[WPGDEVILS]

Who is that exactly? As a Sharks fan, I want to know who I am overlooking?

Eklund and Toffoli have about the same number of points as Teravainen and Donation, and then there is a steep drop-off from there. Pretty much just like the Blackhawks. To that point, there is only a 1 goal difference in goals for between the teams, and CHI is on top.

Edit: not to mention that was the Sharks traded their leading scorer Granlund who they traded ~5 games ago.

IMO Walman, Eklund and Toffoli are much better players. Eklund looks to be something special and Smith shows flashes. I see the future core and the talent that will continue to improve.

Compared to the Hawks and there’s not a single name on that team that excites me. Someone’s gotta score but nobody on that team is near Eklunds talent maybe even Toffoli talent.

 

[Mattb124]

IMO Walman, Eklund and Toffoli are much better players. Eklund looks to be something special and Smith shows flashes. I see the future core and the talent that will continue to improve.

Compared to the Hawks and there’s not a single name on that team that excites me. Someone’s gotta score but nobody on that team is near Eklunds talent maybe even Toffoli talent.

They may be better, but their on-ice results don’t demonstrate that.

Walman has a slight edge on Jones offense-wise (30 vs 26 pts) but our depth beyond that is crap. Vlasic and Murphy have 34 points combined while the Sharks #2 and #3 D-scorers post-Ceci trade have 21. Walman has unfortunately cooled off quite a bit, time will tell if he can regain his early-season form.

I think Eklund has a bright future, but he is young and isn’t out-producing his closest peer on CHI. Smith has great potential and is showing improvement, but has been wildly inconsistent so far this season.

Not trying to win an argument here, just trying to demonstrate that we very likely have it as bad or worse than CHI, at least until after CHI’s TDL moves happen. SJS already traded our best goalie, best forward, and 2nd best D to get a head start on the race to the bottom.

 

[Bombshell11]

Two Chicago and 3 SJ players on that list. Do you think those are the 5 worst players in the league defensively? Or guys who played a lot on the two (by far) worst teams in the league?

Bedard is absolutely bad on defense and on faceoffs which led to many goals scored against his team

Its a fact

 

[nbwingsfan]

Bedard is absolutely bad on defense and on faceoffs which led to many goals scored against his team

Its a fact

While true, which is also true for 99% of teenagers in the NHL who don’t produce nearly the offense he does, pointing to +/- as some kind of evidence is hilarious

Play a lot on horrible teams = very poor +|-

It’s amazing that people who like hockey enough to post on a messenger board can’t seem to grasp this

Unless you think Dylan Demelo or OEL are twice the defenseman than Roman Josi is…?

 

[Bombshell11]

While true, which is also true for 99% of teenagers in the NHL who don’t produce nearly the offense he does, pointing to +/- as some kind of evidence is hilarious

Play a lot on horrible teams = very poor +|-

It’s amazing that people who like hockey enough to post on a messenger board can’t seem to grasp this

Unless you think Dylan Demelo or OEL are twice the defenseman than Roman Josi is…?

Its not evidence, its an indication. he's just terrible defensively.
Ask Mark Messier who called him out on air for being too soft, what does he know?
No other player in the league is allowed to do play this soft.

If he was just a little more aggressive and firm with his actions without the puck, there's at least, at least 5-15 goals he could have prevented. A bunch would have been neutralised by just simply winning more faceoffs and another lot of goals would have been prevented if he offered a tiny bit of a better challenge to the opposite team.

And of course he's not scoring at the pace people had in mind before the draft. He's on pace for 23 goals this season. For the amount of minutes he's playing and all the PP time hes getting, its just terrible.

Bad defense + poor scoring = bad +/-

Even if he just scored 10 extra goals this year and prevented 5 goals against... thats right there +15.

He needs to do his part first before we start talking about his teammates.

 

[ViD]

Is he in another slump ?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

First 125 games, Mackinnon 38 goals, 101 points. Bedard, 38 goals, 110 points.

Mackinnon played with Landeskog, Duchene, O'Reilly, Iginla. Bedard plays with Teravainen and Tyler Bertuzzi.

You're judgment is poor.

Yeah because MacKinnon and Bedard are so similar...

 

[nbwingsfan]

Its not evidence, its an indication. he's just terrible defensively.
Ask Mark Messier who called him out on air for being too soft, what does he know?
No other player in the league is allowed to do play this soft.

If he was just a little more aggressive and firm with his actions without the puck, there's at least, at least 5-15 goals he could have prevented. A bunch would have been neutralised by just simply winning more faceoffs and another lot of goals would have been prevented if he offered a tiny bit of a better challenge to the opposite team.

And of course he's not scoring at the pace people had in mind before the draft. He's on pace for 23 goals this season. For the amount of minutes he's playing and all the PP time hes getting, its just terrible.

Bad defense + poor scoring = bad +/-

Even if he just scored 10 extra goals this year and prevented 5 goals against... thats right there +15.

He needs to do his part first before we start talking about his teammates.

23 goals and 70points, not surprising you left that part out. Pretty hard to score more when teams can cover you knowing you are the single offensive threat on the entire team

And I’ll ask again, do you think Demelo is twice the defenseman that Roman Josi is this season? A simple yes or no will do.

 

[Offtheboard412]

Git gud.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

23 goals and 70points, not surprising you left that part out. Pretty hard to score more when teams can cover you knowing you are the single offensive threat on the entire team

And I’ll ask again, do you think Demelo is twice the defenseman that Roman Josi is this season? A simple yes or no will do.

23g 70p is an average 2nd liner season these days.

and spare me the teammates argument, a supposed generational talent should be at the top of the league in scoring no matter who he's out there with, thats what being generational is.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I don't think he'd be in top 6 for Canada, and he doesn't have the defense/tenacity for bottom 6.

Needs to become a more complete player to play wing in Canada's top 6.

 

[Summer Rose]

Its not evidence, its an indication. he's just terrible defensively.
Ask Mark Messier who called him out on air for being too soft, what does he know?
No other player in the league is allowed to do play this soft.

If he was just a little more aggressive and firm with his actions without the puck, there's at least, at least 5-15 goals he could have prevented. A bunch would have been neutralised by just simply winning more faceoffs and another lot of goals would have been prevented if he offered a tiny bit of a better challenge to the opposite team.

And of course he's not scoring at the pace people had in mind before the draft. He's on pace for 23 goals this season. For the amount of minutes he's playing and all the PP time hes getting, its just terrible.

Bad defense + poor scoring = bad +/-

Even if he just scored 10 extra goals this year and prevented 5 goals against... thats right there +15.

He needs to do his part first before we start talking about his teammates.

I agree with all of this.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to say that I feel like plus/minus is a stat that is often demonized lately (let's say in the past decade or so). I don't think it's a bad stat, it's just one where context is key to interpreting it. Furthermore, if it's really high or really low, then it's absolutely telling you something about that player. Bedard having being at -26 and scoring 49 points is definitely telling you something. His -26 rating is good for third worst on the team.

 

[Bombshell11]

23 goals and 70points, not surprising you left that part out. Pretty hard to score more when teams can cover you knowing you are the single offensive threat on the entire team

And I’ll ask again, do you think Demelo is twice the defenseman that Roman Josi is this season? A simple yes or no will do.

this is so ridiculous, the guy is getting more pp time share than any one else in the league…
His scoring ability was his strongest asset coming off Junior. His production is terrible based on the minutes and pp share.

Matthews scored 40 goals and 69 pts in his first season, his second year he had another 30+ goals season.

the reason why Bedar doesnt have more goals is:
He lost too many faceoffs and many led to giving away possession and spending time defending rather than attacking which is the reason his 5vs5 production is so sub par.

Plus hes so soft at back checking the other 4 guys need to do the work of 5… you’re then exhausting your “best” squad at defending rather than creating scoring chances.

Bedard was supposed to be a player to build around. It doesnt look like thats what is happening here. Players wanting to leave already is not a good sign.

your Damelo question is irrelevant to what we’re talking about. I dont think you understood how i am using +- in this context.

 

[Toby91ca]

Bedard is absolutely bad on defense and on faceoffs which led to many goals scored against his team

Its a fact

But no one really cares about that with a 19 year old on a horrible team. There is nothing overly concerning here....he'll likely improve on face-offs....but who knows, Hughes still sucks at it.....and he'll improve on defense. He unlikely to ever be a Selke candidate, but that's not a knock either.

How good he will become I'm not sure though...if the team doesn't improve, I think that will hold him back.

 

[nbwingsfan]

this is so ridiculous, the guy is getting more pp time share than any one else in the league…
His scoring ability was his strongest asset coming off Junior. His production is terrible based on the minutes and pp share.

Matthews scored 40 goals and 69 pts in his first season, his second year he had another 30+ goals season.

the reason why Bedar doesnt have more goals is:
He lost too many faceoffs and many led to giving away possession and spending time defending rather than attacking which is the reason his 5vs5 production is so sub par.

Plus hes so soft at back checking the other 4 guys need to do the work of 5… you’re then exhausting your “best” squad at defending rather than creating scoring chances.

Bedard was supposed to be a player to build around. It doesnt look like thats what is happening here. Players wanting to leave already is not a good sign.

your Damelo question is irrelevant to what we’re talking about. I dont think you understood how i am using +- in this context.

I’ll ask for a third time.

Do you think Demelo is a better defenseman than Roman Josi? What about OEL > Josi?

It’s a simple yes or no.

I agree with all of this.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to say that I feel like plus/minus is a stat that is often demonized lately (let's say in the past decade or so). I don't think it's a bad stat, it's just one where context is key to interpreting it. Furthermore, if it's really high or really low, then it's absolutely telling you something about that player. Bedard having being at -26 and scoring 49 points is definitely telling you something. His -26 rating is good for third worst on the team.

Roman Josi went from +12 last season to ~26 (so far) this season.

Has he suddenly become one of the worst D in the league overnight? Or did Nashville as a TEAM become terrible.

 

[nbwingsfan]

23g 70p is an average 2nd liner season these days.

and spare me the teammates argument, a supposed generational talent should be at the top of the league in scoring no matter who he's out there with, thats what being generational is.

Average 2nd liner?

Go through the teams and let me know how many teams have 4+ forwards who will pace for 70pts this season, then get back to me

 

[Summer Rose]

I’ll ask for a third time.

Do you think Demelo is a better defenseman than Roman Josi? What about OEL > Josi?

It’s a simple yes or no.


Roman Josi went from +12 last season to ~26 (so far) this season.

Has he suddenly become one of the worst D in the league overnight? Or did Nashville as a TEAM become terrible.

I haven't seen enough of Roman Josi this season to have much of an educated opinion, I'll admit. While a -26 rating combined with 38 points does say something about the player, Nashville (like Chicago) is also just really, really bad this year. Josi's -26 rating is also the worst on the team. I otherwise don't know enough to say anything else credible about the situation. I could attempt to draw some conclusions in interpreting those numbers, but they'd be conjecture at best, since I don't have enough of an "eye test" sample size to feel comfortable in parading those conclusions as very sound.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I haven't seen enough of Roman Josi this season to have much of an educated opinion, I'll admit. While a -26 rating combined with 38 points does say something about the player, Nashville (like Chicago) is also just really, really bad this year. Josi's -26 rating is also the worst on the team. I otherwise don't know enough to say anything else credible about the situation. I could attempt to draw some conclusions in interpreting those numbers, but they'd be conjecture at best, since I don't have enough of an "eye test" sample size to feel comfortable in parading those conclusions as very sound.

Which is exactly why +|- is not a good stat in any way shape or form.

You can get a + without contributing anything, and you can get a - because you stepped onto the ice from a bad line change.

Without going through every single game individually, it’s useless

 

[Bombshell11]

Which is exactly why +|- is not a good stat in any way shape or form.

You can get a + without contributing anything, and you can get a - because you stepped onto the ice from a bad line change.

Without going through every single game individually, it’s useless

And context was given prior for Bedard’s +-. This stat was only used to provide support to an argument it was never meant to be the* argument.

With your josi question you tried to imply that our opinion of Bedard was created based on the +- which is false and this is what Summer Rose articulated on his last comment.

 

[Summer Rose]

Which is exactly why +|- is not a good stat in any way shape or form.

You can get a + without contributing anything, and you can get a - because you stepped onto the ice from a bad line change.

Without going through every single game individually, it’s useless

While I disagree, your opinion is perfectly valid. The entire basis of my opinion is that while plus/minus rating doesn’t tell us the whole story, it can be a useful statistic when given proper context. If your opinion is that because it doesn’t tell the whole story and requires context to be interpreted, it is therefore useless, which it appears to be (but feel free to correct me; I’m not trying to put words in your mouth here), then it’s a perfectly valid opinion to have. I just happen to disagree with it.

 

[DrDangles]

He basically has no chance at 2026, the top 6 is too stacked and there are far better bottom 6 options that produce at a similar clip offensively.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

He basically has no chance at 2026, the top 6 is too stacked and there are far better bottom 6 options that produce at a similar clip offensively.

He has a chance but he's gonna have to go absolutely crazy , I'm talking 90-100 points 40 goals crazy , which most wouldn't pencil him for next year