What do you want em to do?

[BlackFrancis]

same. i look at what washington did and it's impressive (and doable). they have zero players in the 4 nations tournament.
the GM just made a lot of very savvy moves and took a crusty roster and revitalized it.

i look at what vancouver does regularly and when things aren't working they find ways to make it work. in boston i see a
GM who likes to observe, observe more, observe more, still do nothing...lacks creativity, is too in love with his own players.

retool on the fly is the way to go. move out the freddy/coyle/carlo faction and use all that capital to get better now and in
the long run. it's not only doable but it's smart business. but what do i expect? more of the same.

Got to ease off on the Caps as a blueprint thing. Riding high on PDO via shooting percentage and marginally magic goaltending. Their expected vs actual goals is over 30, which is like what the Bruins score in a normal month. They give up more high danger chances than their opponents, which is never a harbinger of immediate and long term success.

As far as the Sweeney "observe, observe, observe" bit, I'd be shocked if that isn't the way it actually goes down. The characterization gets shook when you think about how he makes trades. Can anyone recall a Don Sweeney trade that required secondary assets to be moved to the Bruins? We can all name one that had those assets moved off to Jeff Gorton's home for whatever he wants.

Sweeney comes across as a dude buying a car on the lot, knowing the make/model/color, and heads into the office, slaps down his requirement data sheet, provided by the Providence Bruins GM on nice glossy paper stock. He then proceeds to put his cash/bank letter/bullion/buttcoin on the table and proceeds to wait for his keys/title/insurance so he can leave. It is likely five words would be spoken by Sweeney in such a transaction.

Retool on the fly is a decent swing at it. They need someone to run the PP from whatever position works that can make the other four guys on the ice with him suck less. Someone brought up Karlsson - a guy who's been a PP master since birth. Well, Erik is losing it. He's got one PP goal and 10 assists on a Pittsburgh team that kinda sucks but is still scoring a ton of goals this season. I checked EK's PP production three months ago and was almost as shocked then as I was upon seeing it wasn't improving. The toilet seats will probably be looking to cast off Laine come summer or next season. He fits some of the bill and would help the PP, but for only the half year he isn't injured.

Anyway, they need a PP guy. They need to fix what has been an odious PK. Need to add speed, front or back end. Need to trade off some of their vets for guys who can pass the damn puck. They should also probably get a native English speaking goalie in here, so Swayman has a close, personal friend again that can tell him how awesome and special he is.

Get all that done and we can go back to decrying the team for being soft again (still?)

 

[RoccoF14]

Got to ease off on the Caps as a blueprint thing. Riding high on PDO via shooting percentage and marginally magic goaltending. Their expected vs actual goals is over 30, which is like what the Bruins score in a normal month. They give up more high danger chances than their opponents, which is never a harbinger of immediate and long term success.

As far as the Sweeney "observe, observe, observe" bit, I'd be shocked if that isn't the way it actually goes down. The characterization gets shook when you think about how he makes trades. Can anyone recall a Don Sweeney trade that required secondary assets to be moved to the Bruins? We can all name one that had those assets moved off to Jeff Gorton's home for whatever he wants.

Sweeney comes across as a dude buying a car on the lot, knowing the make/model/color, and heads into the office, slaps down his requirement data sheet, provided by the Providence Bruins GM on nice glossy paper stock. He then proceeds to put his cash/bank letter/bullion/buttcoin on the table and proceeds to wait for his keys/title/insurance so he can leave. It is likely five words would be spoken by Sweeney in such a transaction.

Retool on the fly is a decent swing at it. They need someone to run the PP from whatever position works that can make the other four guys on the ice with him suck less. Someone brought up Karlsson - a guy who's been a PP master since birth. Well, Erik is losing it. He's got one PP goal and 10 assists on a Pittsburgh team that kinda sucks but is still scoring a ton of goals this season. I checked EK's PP production three months ago and was almost as shocked then as I was upon seeing it wasn't improving. The toilet seats will probably be looking to cast off Laine come summer or next season. He fits some of the bill and would help the PP, but for only the half year he isn't injured.

Anyway, they need a PP guy. They need to fix what has been an odious PK. Need to add speed, front or back end. Need to trade off some of their vets for guys who can pass the damn puck. They should also probably get a native English speaking goalie in here, so Swayman has a close, personal friend again that can tell him how awesome and special he is.

Get all that done and we can go back to decrying the team for being soft again (still?)

I agree with some of this, but I think that whatever rebuild/retool that takes place needs to start with an overhaul behind the bench and a fresh perspective there.

Get your coaching staff set, figure out how you want to play and THEN get the players you need to fit your style. Right now, I don’t know what this team is. It’s a mish-mosh of non-complementary parts.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

I just want Coyle and Carlo off the team.

 

[bme44]

I just want Coyle and Carlo off the team.

I think trading Carlo would be a mistake . Of course this depends on the return

 

[rfournier103]

Try to keep this simple...

Fire Don Sweeney. Hire new GM from outside the organization. Move in new direction.

Is that simple enough?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Got to ease off on the Caps as a blueprint thing. Riding high on PDO via shooting percentage and marginally magic goaltending. Their expected vs actual goals is over 30, which is like what the Bruins score in a normal month. They give up more high danger chances than their opponents, which is never a harbinger of immediate and long term success.As far as the Sweeney "observe, observe, observe" bit, I'd be shocked if that isn't the way it actually goes down. The characterization gets shook when you think about how he makes trades. Can anyone recall a Don Sweeney trade that required secondary assets to be moved to the Bruins? We can all name one that had those assets moved off to Jeff Gorton's home for whatever he wants.

Sweeney comes across as a dude buying a car on the lot, knowing the make/model/color, and heads into the office, slaps down his requirement data sheet, provided by the Providence Bruins GM on nice glossy paper stock. He then proceeds to put his cash/bank letter/bullion/buttcoin on the table and proceeds to wait for his keys/title/insurance so he can leave. It is likely five words would be spoken by Sweeney in such a transaction.

Retool on the fly is a decent swing at it. They need someone to run the PP from whatever position works that can make the other four guys on the ice with him suck less. Someone brought up Karlsson - a guy who's been a PP master since birth. Well, Erik is losing it. He's got one PP goal and 10 assists on a Pittsburgh team that kinda sucks but is still scoring a ton of goals this season. I checked EK's PP production three months ago and was almost as shocked then as I was upon seeing it wasn't improving. The toilet seats will probably be looking to cast off Laine come summer or next season. He fits some of the bill and would help the PP, but for only the half year he isn't injured.

Anyway, they need a PP guy. They need to fix what has been an odious PK. Need to add speed, front or back end. Need to trade off some of their vets for guys who can pass the damn puck. They should also probably get a native English speaking goalie in here, so Swayman has a close, personal friend again that can tell him how awesome and special he is.

Get all that done and we can go back to decrying the team for being soft again (still?)

Don't get the bolded part.

Sorry, I'm old.

 

[neelynugs]

I agree, but I'm not ready to say this GM can't do it. He took over a team that was over the cap and out of the playoffs and retooled it into a team that would go to the finals 4 years later, and win more games than any team in the last 8 years. He's been retooling this team for years and just last year they put up 109 points. He's also let guys go that he picked, like DeBrusk and Ullmark so I don't think he's afraid to trade Freddy or Coyle. He's brought in McAvoy, Swayman, Hampus, Carlo, Lohrei, Zadorov, Zacha, Geekie, Coyle, Frederic, Poitras, Kastelic... There's a lot to like there.

I think he's earned the chance to right the ship once again.

i certainly don't see them doing anything significant as far as management change, so it's his job to fix this. we'll see how it goes - i'm not too optimistic, but that's just MO.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

I think trading Carlo would be a mistake . Of course this depends on the return

Soft no offense doesn't fit with any of the LD. Dudes rapidly declining even if he isn't that old.

Get a better 2RD that can push for PP time in the off-season.

 

[dugg133]

Soft no offense doesn't fit with any of the LD. Dudes rapidly declining even if he isn't that old.

Get a better 2RD that can push for PP time in the off-season.

Lindholm-Carlo has been our best pairing for the better part of 3 years now, idk how you can say Carlo doesn't fit with any of out LD.

I'd still move him for the right return btw cause I don't think he ages well with all his concussions and ultimately he should be replaceable with Hampus already there to elevate the 2nd pair.

 

[Beyonder]

I have to admit, what Washington has accomplished (so far) does give me pause before saying "full rebuild." The Caps hit almost everything right going back to when they picked up Strome. If they manage to add another player or two at the deadline, they could be for real in the playoffs. Not many teams have re-invented themselves on the fly as well as the Caps have.

Could the Bruins accomplish a similar turn around without punting the next 3 seasons? If the Capitals can do it, why can't the Bruins? My main problem with this idea is: Could the current GM really pull it off?

With Washington out there as an example and with the Bruins seemingly not at all buying into the tank model of gutting the team for a couple year and drafting high, it seems probable they will try to do something similar. Then it really does seem to come down to whether Sweeney and his staff can make it happen. I'm quite skeptical.

After all, it is not like he has not been trying to replenish the roster the past 2 seasons and the results are very mixed. I'm not very confident of their ability to judge players outside the organization or their appetite for high risk, high reward type moves. Part of the issue is that, yes, you can list individual players who range from not bad to very good or better (and there are some who are not much help) but somehow the whole is less than the sum of the parts. It's just not working overall with this group, the grand design is lacking. I do think it's important to keep in mind what Sweeney inherited when he took over; he started with a fundamentally good team (some elite talent, some great leaders) that needed tweaking. What he has been building since that group largely turned over is much less impressive... to me. YMMV.

At the end of the day, I expect them to try to improve the team in the near term at the trade deadline. I really don't expect them to do a true sell off for prospects and draft picks. It just isn't in their DNA IMO. If they are "sellers" I expect that to be limited in scope and not close to a full tear down. For example, trade Marchand and then wait 4 years for the return to help at the NHL level? I say no way they do that (right or wrong). Just seems most likely they try to position themselves to be right back in the thick of things next season, if not this.

 

[BruinDust]

The Caps "re-tool" is a bit overrated.

Their biggest add IMO was their coach, Spencer Carberry. He came highly regarded and has them buying into what he's selling.

They took a chance on Strome. Smart move.

Their 2nd leading scorer is Protas, a 3rd round pick from 2019.

McMichael, a 1st rounder also from 2019, finally popped this year.

I do like how they rebuilt their D over time. Slowly adding Sandin, Chychrun, and signing Matt Roy.

Mangiapane hasn't really worked out.

OV is OV.

Tom Wilson is finally healthy.

Dubois's numbers are up but most of that is assists and he's playing for a stronger offensive team with a high shooting %. His goal numbers aren't far off last year's totals.

Nic Down has been there for years. Taylor Raddish was a decent value add.

TJ Oshie on LTIR was probably a blessing in disguise. Awful contract.

Ultimately we'll see how far Thompson gets them. Impressive numbers but the sample size is small and Vegas basically gave him away last summer. Is he the real deal or the product of a hot team?

 

[Beyonder]

The Caps "re-tool" is a bit overrated.

Their biggest add IMO was their coach, Spencer Carberry. He came highly regarded and has them buying into what he's selling.

Another way to look at it though.

Last year, the Capitals finished 18th overall in the league standings. Barely made the playoffs as a wild card team. Swept in the 1st round by NYR. With Backstrom winding down due to injury, Ovi getting older, etc., they looked like one of the teams (like Pittsburgh) that had a good run but was headed for a rebuild.

This season, the Capitals rank #2 in the league. They have a lot of new faces and things are just going swell for them. Yes, the coach is a big part of it. GM, coach, players, they're all getting it done this year. But they were aggressive over the summer and that's another big reason for success.

The Bruins currently rank 19th overall in the league this season. If they make the playoffs, it will probably be as a WC team and expectations (as the team is currently composed) are not high.

IF the Bruins could actually accomplish something similar next season probably 9 out of 10 fans here would sign up for that. That may be only kicking the rebuild can down the road a few years but who would not want to be riding a feel good season again?

[BTW look at Nashville as another example of a team that was aggressive and tried to add several big names to an aging/meh group. Disaster. Understanding the reasons why Washington took off and Nashville crashed seems pretty important when it comes to thinking about what the Bruins should try (or not try) to pull off going forward.]

There are two things I'm really saying here :

1) Washington is out there as an example to tempt teams who are in a similar position to where the Caps were in 2023-24. Some teams may take the bait and hope for similar results instead of burning it down.

2) I think Boston could be one of the teams that looks for a quick turnaround. That seems like their DNA and we have not seen them go the rebuild route in a long, long time. All of which shapes my expectations for this trade deadline. BTW I see in the Webosphere the usual talk about "Marchand could be traded for necessary pieces now and then re-sign with Boston in the summer." I call BS, that almost never ever happens.


Do I think it could work? Well, other teams have pulled it off. But I'm not a believer in this GM to be the next one to do it. I'm just sayin' I think that may be the direction they go.

 

[BruinDust]

2) I think Boston could be one of the teams that looks for a quick turnaround. That seems like their DNA and we have not seen them go the rebuild route in a long, long time. All of which shapes my expectations for this trade deadline. BTW I see in the Webosphere the usual talk about "Marchand could be traded for necessary pieces now and then re-sign with Boston in the summer." I call BS, that almost never ever happens.


Do I think it could work? Well, other teams have pulled it off. But I'm not a believer in this GM to be the next one to do it. I'm just sayin' I think that may be the direction they go.

I think you right about a bunch of things here.

Do I think the Bruins can turn it around quickly in a "re-tool" scenario? Absolutely.

Am I a believer that this front office and pro scouting staff are the ones to accomplish that? No, I think their overall vision is flawed and needs a fresh set of eyes, preferably one with no past Bruin connections.

And I also think you are right about Marchand. I don't see a scenario where he's traded at the deadline only to re-sign in the off-season. Like you said, almost never happens. Keith Tkachuk nearly 20 years ago was one case. I'm having trouble coming up with another example where that occurred.

 

[Beyonder]

And I also think you are right about Marchand. I don't see a scenario where he's traded at the deadline only to re-sign in the off-season. Like you said, almost never happens. Keith Tkachuk nearly 20 years ago was one case. I'm having trouble coming up with another example where that occurred.

Me too. I think it happened in the last 5 years (?). I'm thinking it involved St Louis but I can't come up with a name.

You know, a player I wish they could target is Tage Thompson. I'm very impressed with him and he's no fluke. It's just unlikely a trade like that would happen between 2 division rivals and I'm not sure how they match up as trade partners. Unless Boston is making some major shakeup deal they don't seem to have what Buffalo wants. And, again, just not likely trade partners. But he's the type who could move the needle IMO so maybe he's just a useful point of reference for what they need in the "retool" model.

 

[JAD]

For the Bruins, I see this as year two in a 3 - 5 year retool.
Let me explain. There is a bit of a pattern here since Sweeney became GM.

When Sweeney first took over, there were immediate roster changes and gradual additions and subtractions the next few years. Four years after becoming GM, he Bruins were in the '19 finals.

Then we progressed through the covid crap and another four years later from being in the finals - we had the most loaded record setting team since the '71 Bruins. Unfortunately, we all know what happened, again.

The retooling began last year ... I believe last year was an anomaly. No one expected the team to do as well as it did. Carried by career years by individual players and continued goaltending that cover for defensive mistakes. Swayman was protected by Ullmark and to a lesser degree vise versa. Winning hid a lot of the flaws in the system and coaching.

How the team is performing this year is more along the lines of what we expected last year - fighting for a wildcard spot.

There is still a lot of hockey to be played this year, and yes, Boston has dug themselves a hole they will need to dig out of. Getting Hampus Lindholm back hopefully will help to stabilize the defensive pairing, barring further injuries. And as we all can see, this team's greatest need is offensive help. Most notably, a top 6 forward that can create and finish consistently. That followed by another middle six forward that can pop in a few goals on a somewhat constant basis. I believe Sweeney will at least attempt to address one of these needs, both would be ideal.

The biggest question is can Sweeney address those two needs in season before the trade deadline? Who and what will he consider expendable to address those concerns? And then there is the status of our UFAs and what direction he will take concerning them.

With the right moves this team might just be able to squeak in to a wildcard and surprise a few people. They also need to improve their road record to get there. As the season winds down, teams will begin to play a tighter defensive structure, which is a double-edged sword for Boston. Boston will benefit from tighter checking games, but unless the offense is addressed, it could also struggle offensively. League wide, less experienced teams will find points even more difficult to come by and may begin to slip in the standings ...Boston can only hope.

There are other issues concerning this team, but they are the types of moves that are usually addressed in the off-season. For those hoping for larger roster altering, management changing moves, - summer may be the time, as they will be moving into year three of the retool.

 

[BruinDust]

Me too. I think it happened in the last 5 years (?). I'm thinking it involved St Louis but I can't come up with a name.

You know, a player I wish they could target is Tage Thompson. I'm very impressed with him and he's no fluke. It's just unlikely a trade like that would happen between 2 division rivals and I'm not sure how they match up as trade partners. Unless Boston is making some major shakeup deal they don't seem to have what Buffalo wants. And, again, just not likely trade partners. But he's the type who could move the needle IMO so maybe he's just a useful point of reference for what they need in the "retool" model.

Buffalo strike me as a team who would like to move out some of their excess mid-tier young guys for a top end forward, not the other way around. I think they realize what they lack is at the top end of the roster.

 

[Beyonder]

Buffalo strike me as a team who would like to move out some of their excess mid-tier young guys for a top end forward, not the other way around. I think they realize what they lack is at the top end of the roster.

I agree except... Kevyn Adams. He has not impressed me a lot so you never know what he might do. Still, Boston is probably not going to be his dance partner. When I talk about getting Thompson, I was thinking it would be a major shakeup deal for Boston meaning somebody like McAvoy or Pastrnak heading out (not a 1:1 trade) but that's not happening. Otherwise, I don't see the trade fit for Buff.

Sounds like there is a lot of smoke around Cozens heading to Calgary. I'm not sure why exactly he has struggled since his breakout season (which was very good). I'd be wary of dealing him until they fix their numerous organizational problems.

What Buffalo could really use is a proven leader for the top line, somebody not too old but who has the track record and is still productive, a true Captain type. Good luck finding that in season.