What do you think of Yzerman these days?

[Frk It]

I don't think Draper was as uninvolved with drafting of the Euros as some are making it, especially the first rounders. Take these old quotes from Raymond's draft year and you quickly glean that Draper was as big a fan of Raymond as anyone.



Further:



It's a similar story with Seider. The following quotes are from Draper at Sieder's first prospect tournament


Draper liked these prospects himself and as Director of Amateur Scouting, was very involved with scouting them and making them Detroit Red Wings draft picks.

This whole narrative of a "Hakan pick" or a "Draper pick" isn't how this stuff works in real life. It is all collaborative.

Yeah, I mean it’s 2024. Every team has InStat at their disposal, which as far as I know lets them watch every shift of just about every player.

So if Draper wakes up Sunday morning and wants to watch 8 hours of some kid playing in the MHL or Swedish J20 on his tablet on his back deck, he can do just that.

Video scouting is more widely accepted and used now than ever.

 

[dalem177]

Mantha

 

[lilidk]

Eric Gustafson was given 2x2 , guy have gone from team to team and was making under 1 million. Trouba was disaster last season for Rangers, we almost got him. Walman. Last season Holl, year before was Chiarot, Copp, Kostin and the guy he came with. 3 goaltenders and Cossa , who should get couple games with Red Wings. 8 defansman.
Yzerman is not done of course, but I have a lot of questions
Looks like SY continues to make same mistakes and expecting different outcomes with Defence .

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Yeah, I mean it’s 2024. Every team has InStat at their disposal, which as far as I know lets them watch every shift of just about every player.

So if Draper wakes up Sunday morning and wants to watch 8 hours of some kid playing in the MHL or Swedish J20 on his tablet on his back deck, he can do just that.

Video scouting is more widely accepted and used now than ever.

The consequence of video scouting is that no one is really hidden anymore. Everyone and their f***ing mother knew who Raymond, Seider, Kasper and ASP were in their draft years.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Draper to me might be the iffy guy to keep so high up in the scouting department as not many of his choices look stellar or even ok at this point. To me this could be them being so good of friends clouding Steve from putting someone better in Draper's spot.

Drafting, for better or worse, takes a long ass time to evaluate. If you were to judge McDonnell (Dallas Stars director of amateur scouting) after the same time as we’re into Draper’s time on the job you’d be skeptical of him too. They had Hintz, Robertson and Oettinger in the pipeline but it was still years until anyone knew how good they were. They had basically nothing but Heiskanen after 5 years. Not the same draft stock as us, but still relevant.

 

[Oddbob]

Drafting, for better or worse, takes a long ass time to evaluate. If you were to judge McDonnell (Dallas Stars director of amateur scouting) after the same time as we’re into Draper’s time on the job you’d be skeptical of him too. They had Hintz, Robertson and Oettinger in the pipeline but it was still years until anyone knew how good they were. They had basically nothing but Heiskanen after 5 years. Not the same draft stock as us, but still relevant.

Yes, but Draper's picks are all lower tier grinder types like James, or lower tier defenders like Cleveland. None of our 2nd round picks are exactly blowing the roof off expectations as lots of them look lucky if they will even have any NHL games. Pretty sure the 3 you mentioned were still held in a lot higher regard than any of our 2nd and after picks. To me my worry with Draper is more that he only seems to go after players who were similar in mold to himself. Hintz and Robertson in particular were more offensive picks than defence or grinder.

A team full of grinders won't do very well. Sometimes it is ok to draft a guy with offensive instincts who isn't necessarily good at defence. You generally aren't getting a hidden offensive gem outside round 1, when those players aren't putting up already good numbers in lower leagues.

 

[dalem177]

Sometimes it is ok to draft a guy with offensive instincts who isn't necessarily good at defence.

We have a Berggren at home.

 

[saska sault]

The consequence of video scouting is that no one is really hidden anymore. Everyone and their f***ing mother knew who Raymond, Seider, Kasper and ASP were in their draft years.

Over scouting is a thing in a sense also. Watch someone long enough, you'll find flaws and things to pick apart about their game.

 

[raymond23]

He brought us Seider and Raymond in his first two years

I don't trust he'll be perfect but I think he'll bring us Cups

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yes, but Draper's picks are all lower tier grinder types like James, or lower tier defenders like Cleveland. None of our 2nd round picks are exactly blowing the roof off expectations as lots of them look lucky if they will even have any NHL games. Pretty sure the 3 you mentioned were still held in a lot higher regard than any of our 2nd and after picks. To me my worry with Draper is more that he only seems to go after players who were similar in mold to himself. Hintz and Robertson in particular were more offensive picks than defence or grinder.

A team full of grinders won't do very well. Sometimes it is ok to draft a guy with offensive instincts who isn't necessarily good at defence. You generally aren't getting a hidden offensive gem outside round 1, when those players aren't putting up already good numbers in lower leagues.

Eh I think that’s hindsight. As a 21 year old Hintz had a similar AHL season as a 20 year old Kasper. 21 year old Mazur had a slightly better year. How confident is anyone that either of them has 70+ point potential?
Augustine had a better d+1 than Oettinger.

As for drafting ”grinders” I don’t really agree. I also don’t think when looking at which later round players have panned out that the key is always offensive production. One of the better 2nd or later rounders we missed so far is Brock Faber. He barely produced much better numbers than what Whipple, our recent 5th rounder, did. We chose Wallinder instead who on the surface has more offensive skill (and could still pan out). Buchelnikov, Lombardi, Dower-Nilsson, Plante etc. are also skill picks, doesn’t mean they work out to a higher degree, but it clearly shows that they’re looking for traits that are not mutually exclusive to being good offensively, productive and bad defensively.

Personally I’m probably ~80% confident all of Johansson, Mazur, Wallinder and Augustine will reach at least 100+ NHL games. Plante, Becher, Tuomisto, Lombardi, Savage, Anton Johansson, Söderblom, Finnie, Buchelnikov, NDN and a few others I think have chances too although only a few are realistically getting there.

Among that bunch, maybe there’s a legit impact player or two. I don’t think that’s awful unless I’m way off and essentially they all completely miss the mark.

 

[Mr Nimbus]

Because they rebuilt the Redwings faster on NHL 2024.

I have to dump unnecessary draft picks to complete trades in that game. At least it's realistic.

 

[Gniwder]

Two people have voted bad. Why?

No clear path to the Cup aside from hoping one of the 2 goalies wind up being Vezina level.

This team is stuck in mediocreville, which is what we wanted to avoid when Kenny got fired. Same people who are complaining that Kenny mortgaged the future for the playoff streak are now content in just making the playoffs.

 

[Winger98]

I don't think the spot we're in is all that different from where the majority of rebuilding teams find themselves as they move up from the bottom. There will always be questions until there aren't and there is a lot of luck involved in guys developing just right, the right trade happening at the right time, etc.

If Danielson becomes a Larkin level center, if Ed becomes seider 2.0, if Cossa becomes a high-end #1...I see a lot of paths to contending. Ir maybe we just build and obscenely deep team that wins thru attrition. I also see a lot of paths to not contending.

Might just be to the point of enjoying the ride.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

No clear path to the Cup aside from hoping one of the 2 goalies wind up being Vezina level.

This team is stuck in mediocreville, which is what we wanted to avoid when Kenny got fired. Same people who are complaining that Kenny mortgaged the future for the playoff streak are now content in just making the playoffs.

It took us 5 years since drafting Seider to miss the playoffs by 1 single point. That's after a catastrophic losing streak where we handed easy points to teams like the Sharks and Coyotes

The team doesn't even have a full-time Edvinsson, Kasper, Danielson, Cossa, Sandin-Pellikka, Brandsegg-Nygard yet. All 1st round picks who have trended nicely and project well, much like our first two who happen to make up 2/3 of our best players

All of the F + D are skilled and hard-to-play-against types with the exception of Sandin-Pellikka, but he brings a potentially elite element of puck moving and PP skills including his shot which is an all-around weapon

Seider is firmly the 2nd best player from the 2019 draft. Raymond is firmly top 3 from 2020

Just let it play out. Development takes time and no we are not going to land/overpay for a Draisaitl or Matthews. So let's just be hard as f*** to play against instead

 

[Mr Nimbus]

He's average right now. Some amazing moves. Some downright awful ones. I'm fine with preaching patience with a young team. But don't then go and load up on the likes of holl, petry and perron. Those were just bad acquisitions. I'd rather still have walman and that 2nd.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

He’s an Okay GM, he does make a lot of head scratching decisions, and is generally pretty overrated on this board. But I do see the vision and it’s one I agree with, so drafting and trade wise for the most part he is good to really good. When it comes to contracts and roster construction I find him quite lacking.

 

[PullHard]

I voted good, but he’s kind of right in between good and great for me. I don’t expect miracle fixes that push our rebuild forward years early, he’s human and I don’t agree with some of his signings, re-signings, etc. but big picture he’s doing a really good job. Patience is required but we’re through the worst part of the rebuild.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Good GM with some very very solid moves to push the Red Wings forward but a few questionable UFA signings to push them back a bit. Interested to see how some of Draper's 2nd-7th round picks pan out, as many of them are just meh, a couple are really solid.

If Edvinsson, Cossa, Danielson, Sandin Pellikka, Augustine, and Brandsegg Nygaard hit their ceiling, things will look really good, putting Yzerman in prime position to pull off his "God mode" level moves that we saw in Tampa to push the Red Wings towards a Cup.

 

[lilidk]

Yzerman had very little to do with drafting. It was mostly Draper, but it was SY decision with what will happen to prospects after the draft. Did he do good job , I don't think so. He was trying to make playoffs and didn't let some prospects to move up.
Good thing , most of bad contracts not for long

 

[Snuggs]

How would people grade his offseason trades this year with Nashville/San Jose/Anaheim?

 

[Hockeyville USA]

How would people grade his offseason trades this year with Nashville/San Jose/Anaheim?

Nashville: A
San Jose: D
Anaheim: A-

 

[Retire91]

San Jose trade was strange, there was something behind closed doors going on

 

[Frk It]

San Jose trade was strange, there was something behind closed doors going on

So wait and waive him like they did with Vrana. Doing what we did makes 0 sense.

 

[Retire91]

Absolutely, not defending the asset management. The buck still stops on Yzerman's desk. but something smelled to me like a souring of his value inside the GM circle, or he broke some taboo that really pissed someone off up top.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

So wait and waive him like they did with Vrana. Doing what we did makes 0 sense.

Assuming nobody claims Walman, which is entirely possible because of a tight cap landscape across the entire NHL, Detroit has to pay his full salary in the AHL if he clears. What is the upside to that? We are still stuck paying him and it's entirely possible he never returns to form and turns into an insanely expensive #5/6/7D

Just get rid of him altogether like they did. If it had to cost a 53rd overall pick to attach with a polarizing defenseman left at $3.4M/2 years is more than fine with me

Walman is just another 'guy'. Not an important piece, despite our weak defense situation. Other moves can be made, and likely still will be made to address that