Toggle sidebar

Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller?

Status
Not open for further replies.
CanaFan said:
Honesty you viewing people’s legitimate reactions as “sky is falling” and “melting snowflakes” is much more draining. People are under no obligation to “wait and see” on a move made by the same GM that has brought us Loui Eriksson, Erik Gudbranson, Brandon Sutter, Brandon Prust, and a seas of Granlunds.

You want to give him a fresh start and the benefit of the doubt on every transaction? Cool, go ahead. But don’t be a condescending prick to those whose memories stretch back further than yesterday’s draft picks.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. People are welcome to rage all they want. I am not here to stop them. I just try to add a perspective that often seems to be missed. This is not a bad trade. Full stop. In the future it may be but as of today we are a better team for it. I will be as condescending as I like if you are allowed to play the non stop bitter pill. You deal with me and I deal with the likes of you. Seems pretty fair.
 
  • Like
Reactions: alternate and MikeK
settinguptheplay said:
Absolutely. People are welcome to rage all they want. I am not here to stop them. I just try to add a perspective that often seems to be missed. This is not a bad trade. Full stop. In the future it may be but as of today we are a better team for it. I will be as condescending as I like if you are allowed to play the non stop bitter pill. You deal with me and I deal with the likes of you. Seems pretty fair.
Click to expand...
Rebuilding teams shouldn’t be doing this kind of trade (at least not with it being a lottery protected pick). But that’s just my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ori
settinguptheplay said:
Absolutely. People are welcome to rage all they want. I am not here to stop them. I just try to add a perspective that often seems to be missed. This is not a bad trade. Full stop. In the future it may be but as of today we are a better team for it. I will be as condescending as I like if you are allowed to play the non stop bitter pill. You deal with me and I deal with the likes of you. Seems pretty fair.
Click to expand...


Sure, I can dish or take, makes no matter to me. But it does make for dull reading if you spend half your posts chastising me for my views which in turn causes me to respond in kind. I mean, we can do it but it’s not my favorite way of handling differences of opinion. I’d rather just focus on the difference of opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: settinguptheplay
And evaluating the trade solely on whether we are “better today” is such a poor way to judge any transaction. We could trade Podkolzin, Juolevi, Virtanen, and the entire 2022 draft for Jason Zucker and we’d be “better today”.

There has to be more nuance and depth to the discussion than that, no?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MS
CanaFan said:
Sure, I can dish or take, makes no matter to me. But it does make for dull reading if you spend half your posts chastising me for my views which in turn causes me to respond in kind. I mean, we can do it but it’s not my favorite way of handling differences of opinion. I’d rather just focus on the difference of opinion.
Click to expand...

My apologies CanaFan. It is not directed at you so much as the prevailing attitude that this trade is something that is certain to sink this franchise. There are some on these boards that seem to find a way to rain on every parade. Even ones that are seen as a positive. Nothing is ever good enough for some. If we don't steal every trade or maximize every draft pick it is the end of the world. Shit happens. We win some we lose some. I just feel a level head is the best way to find the truth. Again, my apologies if I came across as attacking your person. I can certainly come across the ass. But who doesn't on these boards?
 
CanaFan said:
And evaluating the trade solely on whether we are “better today” is such a poor way to judge any transaction. We could trade Podkolzin, Juolevi, Virtanen, and the entire 2022 draft for Jason Zucker and we’d be “better today”.

There has to be more nuance and depth to the discussion than that, no?
Click to expand...

The difference is a known asset vs a known asset. In this case there is only one known asset. Hence it is different than the examples you listed. A 2021 draft pick that we don't even know the position of nor the players that might be available at that spot is a complete unknown. I don't worry about an asteroid hitting the Earth because we don't know if there are any heading this way. So why worry? Even if we know that at some point one will hit the planet.
 
settinguptheplay said:
The difference is a known asset vs a known asset. In this case there is only one known asset. Hence it is different than the examples you listed. A 2021 draft pick that we don't even know the position of nor the players that might be available at that spot is a complete unknown. I don't worry about an asteroid hitting the Earth because we don't know if there are any heading this way. So why worry? Even if we know that at some point one will hit the planet.
Click to expand...
Except the Canucks have been in contention for a lottery pick for each of the past four years. Miller is a quality forward but won’t move the needle that much (EP is a franchise player and we still ended up way out of the playoffs). When was the last time an asteroid of any real significance hit the Earth?
 
settinguptheplay said:
My apologies CanaFan. It is not directed at you so much as the prevailing attitude that this trade is something that is certain to sink this franchise. There are some on these boards that seem to find a way to rain on every parade. Even ones that are seen as a positive. Nothing is ever good enough for some. If we don't steal every trade or maximize every draft pick it is the end of the world. **** happens. We win some we lose some. I just feel a level head is the best way to find the truth. Again, my apologies if I came across as attacking your person. I can certainly come across the ass. But who doesn't on these boards?
Click to expand...

In what universe is that the prevailing attitude?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hit the post
What is inexcusable is that TB was a team in clear cap trouble. They had to move Miller to sign Point. Totally poor GM and negotiating skills to give a desperate team a 1st round pick while solving their cap problems.

DOH Jim this is not what they they mean when they say weaponize your cap space!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ori and pomorick
settinguptheplay said:
My apologies CanaFan. It is not directed at you so much as the prevailing attitude that this trade is something that is certain to sink this franchise. There are some on these boards that seem to find a way to rain on every parade. Even ones that are seen as a positive. Nothing is ever good enough for some. If we don't steal every trade or maximize every draft pick it is the end of the world. **** happens. We win some we lose some. I just feel a level head is the best way to find the truth. Again, my apologies if I came across as attacking your person. I can certainly come across the ass. But who doesn't on these boards?
Click to expand...


No worries, I don’t take it personal (unless it is).

I’m cool to hash the merits of this if you are (see the other thread).

My concern is less about the eventual outcome of the draft pick and more the loss of literally our best and only blue-chip trade asset. Given the recent “stunning” news that other teams don’t value our players very much, the draft pick is a rare high value currency that - if played shrewdly - could have brought back (alone or as the key piece of a package) a badly needed top 2/3 Dman at the level of a Jacob Trouba. I think Miller is a nice player, but far from the critical difference maker that the asset should have been utilized for. Nothing about the position (wing) or player makes me feel tremendously confident that our fortunes will turn enough for that trade to be worthwhile.
 
  • Like
Reactions: settinguptheplay and PredsForPresidents
settinguptheplay said:
I am expecting the Pacific to get worse. Yes. LA, Anaheim, Edmonton are not getting any better. Arizona could go either way and even a team like SJ could be in for a severe drop off as they are aging fast and if EK does not stay healthy I could see a massive drop from them. Even Calgary is a wild card with suspect goaltending and a Norris trophy winner that will be hard pressed to duplicate his season at 36 years old.

In the Central teams like Chicago, Minnesota and even Winnipeg could be in for down years in the next 2 seasons. It is not out of the realm of possibility that the Canucks make a run. Try to get a decent Dman through trade or FA and perhaps the return of Tryamkin (possibly even Pods) in a year to go along with natural progression of our young core and I like our chances.

Certainly enough silver lining to avoid the typical HFCanuck meltdown. If we are still out of the playoffs in 2 years this team will have to be torn down again anyways as it will obviously still not be good enough. At which time losing that 1st will be painful but likely not going to change our fortunes anyway.
Click to expand...
This is way too sensible! This is HF boards?
 
Miller-Pettersson-Boeser
Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen/Baertschi

I dunno... I think we still need more to make the playoffs...

If Miller can complete that first line even in a complimentary role that would be a big step. I think we need a legit skill player for the second line.
 
We will still be a lottery team 2 years from now. With DimJim at the helm, soon to be accompanied by Chiarelli, it's painfully obvious that this team is going nowhere. This deal is already worse than how ottawa lost their 4th overall. It's scary as hell to think about how DimJim plans to "fix" his defense next. FML, all of our lives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pomorick
settinguptheplay said:
The difference is a known asset vs a known asset. In this case there is only one known asset. Hence it is different than the examples you listed. A 2021 draft pick that we don't even know the position of nor the players that might be available at that spot is a complete unknown. I don't worry about an asteroid hitting the Earth because we don't know if there are any heading this way. So why worry? Even if we know that at some point one will hit the planet.
Click to expand...


Sure but assets have *intrinsic* value, agree?

The value of a 1st round pick is not the nebulous future you assign it, it is the value of what you can buy with it. And based on my qualitative sense of the value of the pick, the player, and the positional needs of the team, this trade comes up lacking.

Now that the pick is gone, what do we have of value to fix the much bigger holes on our defense?
 
  • Like
Reactions: settinguptheplay
Like the player, hate the trade. Our theme this draft seems to be wingers that can score and make you hate them. As a player in a vacuum, I think he's awesome and he should complete one of our top 2 lines. But we didn't have to give up a first to get him lol.

What do people see as his max ceiling playing with Bo or Petey?
 
Should we trade Vasili Podkolzin for Bryan Little? That would be a “win” under your narrow parameters for evaluating the Miller trade, as it objectively make us a better team *today*, if we focus only on the unknown-ness of Podkolzin’s future rather than the value of the asset.
 
CanaFan said:
No worries, I don’t take it personal (unless it is).

I’m cool to hash the merits of this if you are (see the other thread).

My concern is less about the eventual outcome of the draft pick and more the loss of literally our best and only blue-chip trade asset. Given the recent “stunning” news that other teams don’t value our players very much, the draft pick is a rare high value currency that - if played shrewdly - could have brought back (alone or as the key piece of a package) a badly needed top 2/3 Dman at the level of a Jacob Trouba. I think Miller is a nice player, but far from the critical difference maker that the asset should have been utilized for. Nothing about the position (wing) or player makes me feel tremendously confident that our fortunes will turn enough for that trade to be worthwhile.
Click to expand...

Could that pick have gone to better use? Probably. I am not going to defend the idea that we maximized our asset. I don't think we did. But we can still get positive value from this trade. I guess I am just sensitive to the fact that with all the shit going on in the world it would be nice to breath in some positivity for once. Even if it is a bit sugar coated. I mean I get it... We just saw Colorado reap the rewards of a deal similar to this. And if we get screwed Ill put my head in that meat grinder and cry myself to sleep at night. But I at least want to wait to see if it really happens.
 
CanaFan said:
Should we trade Vasili Podkolzin for Bryan Little? That would be a “win” under your narrow parameters for evaluating the Miller trade, as it objectively make us a better team *today*, if we focus only on the unknown-ness of Podkolzin’s future rather than the value of the asset.
Click to expand...
This is like watching someone try and explain how icing works to someone who has never watched hockey before.
 
CanaFan said:
Ya? Assuming every other team gets worst case scenarios and we don’t is sensible?

I think i’m finally starting to understand you guys.
Click to expand...
I always tend to drift towards the middle ground, sorry that that’s caused you misunderstanding.
 
Luck 6 said:
Miller-Pettersson-Boeser
Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen/Baertschi

I dunno... I think we still need more to make the playoffs...

If Miller can complete that first line even in a complimentary role that would be a big step. I think we need a legit skill player for the second line.
Click to expand...

I agree, we need a lot more. Baertschi has never been able to stay healthy for a full season and Virtanen is way too inconsistent to play regularly in the top 6. There's possibly Leivo, but I'm not very confident on that line producing over the course of the regular season.
 
Welp lets hope by 2020/2021 season that we’re a legit playoff team!! And that first is one in the 20’s. Pretty s****y situation. Have zero confidence we will ever be able to obtain another 1st between now and then either so that stinks too! Or at least with this current management group...
 
TraderJim said:
Because it has been raining for 5 straight years. You want people to lie and pretend everything is OK. It isn't. The past 5 years have PROVEN those people right. Sorry but this team is not all sunshine and rainbows.
Click to expand...

It is easy to be a hater. If things go badly you get to claim wonderful insight. If things go well one gets to celebrate the successes with the rest of us. It is easy being a critic. This is why people love the underdog. It is a win/win situation. No risk.

And this team is stages better than the previous several years. We have plenty to be positive about. We had no Pettersson, Hughes or Boeser 4~5 years ago. We had the aging Sedin twins and not much else. If you cannot see the sun breaking through those clouds then I suggest your not looking in the right direction. Try looking north instead of south. The last 5 years has proven nothing in regards to the future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nomobo
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom