Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller? | Part 2
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Svencouver
Registered User
1. It was kind of lazy, as that was just capped from the Sportsnet broadcast. It's not like the team put it together.
2. It is definitely in bad taste. Not only is it their own fans, but they are cherry-picking as badly as some of the people on this board. Are they also going to dig up all the tweets lamenting signing Eriksson, trading for Sutter, all the futile pushes to compete, etc. to show how wrong they were all the other times? There are plenty out there.
3. The criticisms of the process remain totally valid, even if Miller is a good player. Especially Dimitri's, which was pointing out how the incentives made it easy for Benning to be cavalier about the price – this was, and remains, completely true.
2. It is definitely in bad taste. Not only is it their own fans, but they are cherry-picking as badly as some of the people on this board. Are they also going to dig up all the tweets lamenting signing Eriksson, trading for Sutter, all the futile pushes to compete, etc. to show how wrong they were all the other times? There are plenty out there.
3. The criticisms of the process remain totally valid, even if Miller is a good player. Especially Dimitri's, which was pointing out how the incentives made it easy for Benning to be cavalier about the price – this was, and remains, completely true.
VancouverJagger
Not trying to fit in
While I tend to understand where everyone is coming from re this "process" malarky overall I find it to be a pretty silly argument - especially in this case.. The people arguing that the Miller trade was the wrong move at the time cus we weren't ready to contend or take the next step (based on stats or probabilities) would appear to be proven wrong here no? The answer to that question is being born our right before our eyes.
Yeah get over it........at this point it appears Benning was right (it happens...........take a deep breath relax........things are gonna be ok). Our team could've sorely used a player like Miller (who as we all know was one of our top 3 players this year. - for stretches he was def. our top) to help them get over the hump..........which it appears we are in the process of doing (if not having already done it winning what was essentially a playoff round already).
While I'm not privy to what goes on in the dressing room it appears that he's a leader on this team and a crucial part of any success we have had this season.
To keep holding on to the "but the process was wrong" argument when it's pretty clear that wasn't the case, in my mind at least, simply illustrates how blinded large segments of this board are for their hate for management.
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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lol, nice parody of a negative fan sputtering to justify his post history. i was laughing even before the old "it was a bad trade even if we won it" punchline. definitely benning on empty worthy. you've still got it.
being serious for a second, i think criticism of fans who stake out extreme positions is fair game and useful. this entire fanbase has been dragged down by fans who were obsessed with negativity during this rebuild and who seized the narrative. we need a little airing out and people need to be reminded those posters did not know what they were talking about and not to listen to those fans. it's going to be refreshing to discuss this team without having to listen to the same over the top negative takes drowning everyone out all the time. i am looking forward to a sensible discussion.
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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as for jt miller, to me the leadership part of the trade especially was totally unexpected and is a huge part of what he brought. i thought we were getting a moody selfish inconsistent power forward. what we got was a complete player and the points alone do not tell the story.
Essentially the pandemic hitting prevented the Canucks from continuing their late season slide and handing over a fully unprotected 1st round pick in 2021 (while going through an extremely difficult offseason due to extremely limited cap space).
Process for the trade still was flawed, and just because it has now worked out (as a result of us giving up the back-half-1st rounder) does not change the fact that it was an insane risk.
Process for the trade still was flawed, and just because it has now worked out (as a result of us giving up the back-half-1st rounder) does not change the fact that it was an insane risk.
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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while you are accessing these alternate timelines, can you find one where salma hayek is totally into me?
rypper
21-12-05 it's finally over.
- Dec 22, 2006
- 17,117
- 21,825
That's true and all but it's still Sportsnet and the Canucks putting fans handles out there leaving them open for harassment. You might expect them to be held to a higher standard and all.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
I tend to agree with this. The Miller trade was a big gamble at the time - sure, it's panned out nicely, but that doesn't mean there wasn't going to be some handwringing over it. Which is fine - just an odd move for the Canucks to officially circulate a tweet highlighting some of those fan reactions. Totally fine for Sportsnet to share that to highlight how the trade was perceived versus how it's panned out; but for the Canucks to latch onto it and circulate it is poor form, IMO.
moog35
Registered User
- Jul 25, 2007
- 2,364
- 874
Should make a Benning on empty comic strip about how epic the Miller trade was. It might actually be readable for once
Chimpradamus
Registered User
Well, I for one as a part Rangers fan is very happy J.T. Miller finally got his chance to have a bigger role on a team. His talent was always there, but it's the whole package he brings, he's a really good two-way player. He was more inconsistent in NYR, but that was also a younger version and less ice time. His experience and gained maturity has been a great addition to the Canucks.
Funnily enough, neither the Rangers nor Tampa actually wanted to part with him. NYR allowed him to go because he didn't want to stay for the rebuild, while Tampa let him go because of cap space problems. Both teams liked him as a player, so it's not like he was ever considered a failure. It's great for both Miller and Vancouver he found his true team, where he can be one of many leaders and given the responsibility.
He is to the Canucks what William Karlsson or Marchesseault brought to Vegas. I've never seen Miller play better than for the Canucks. It's the perfect enviroment for his kind of hockey. He thrives by just being one of many proficient players to dictate the next game.
Funnily enough, neither the Rangers nor Tampa actually wanted to part with him. NYR allowed him to go because he didn't want to stay for the rebuild, while Tampa let him go because of cap space problems. Both teams liked him as a player, so it's not like he was ever considered a failure. It's great for both Miller and Vancouver he found his true team, where he can be one of many leaders and given the responsibility.
He is to the Canucks what William Karlsson or Marchesseault brought to Vegas. I've never seen Miller play better than for the Canucks. It's the perfect enviroment for his kind of hockey. He thrives by just being one of many proficient players to dictate the next game.
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krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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i don't see how it could be totally fine for sportsnet but not the canucks. i think the canucks just screencapped the sportsnet feed and posted it. basically a retweet.
It's the world we live in. Some people like the attention. When you're putting out a public tweet that tweet can be shared. If you allow public comments, anyone with a twitter account can comment. It's not like you're sharing a FB post with people on your friends list. I would say that it's more of a fair game if the tweeter actually hashtagged the Canucks as not everyone of those tweeters did.
I would also hold Sportsnet to a lower standard here as they are simply reporting on it.
In any normal circumstances, a lottery team trading its first rounder for a player like Miller is sheer desperation. But there are no absolutes in hockey trades. This is one that actually worked out fine for the Canucks, particularly considering their first rounder this year will be no better than the 19-20 range.
It is the "player like Miller" part that the fanbase got wrong. I would trade every 1st pick team had if you got a player like Miller with his contract back. He is a legit top line forward who plays pp pk takes faceoffs and has snarl and leadership abilities. Get us a dman like this and we are a top team in this league.
Canucks have to make hay on the 4 years he is under contract for. Term is going to be dicey on his next deal. Would have been better if he was at $6 mill Or so cap hit if it meant he had an extra 2 years on his deal. If he did max term of 8 years rather than the 6 he signed for.
Exactly. It's the usual suspects who cling onto the "timing" and "process" argument. You have a chance to trade for a "player like Miller" for what the team predicts as a mid to late first round pick and the Canucks decided to do it. We often talk about the need to surround our core players with young players and look at the way Miller has complemented Petey.
Fire Benning
diaper filled piss baby
It’s like if you go the sportsbook and bet on a bunch of massive underdogs, lose most of them and brag about the big payout you got from one of them while your net gain is in the red.
Fire Benning
diaper filled piss baby
The tweet was brutal, first playoff win in 5 years and your first impulse is to dump on your fans because they aren’t on board with everything you do 100% of the time?..ok. If we’re going to dig up old takes, there were some pretty hilarious comments made about the Gudbranson trade and other moves too.
Svencouver
Registered User
I don't think its that deep. I made some embarrassingly stupid hot takes about the Miller trade when it happened and it's whatever. I'm happy with how he turned out, and can laugh at myself for those posts I made on the subject. I wouldn't waste my time feeling bad for the people in those tweets that made them on the most public platform on earth having some fun poked at them. It's the same as all those draft day reaction videos of Pettersson. There's nothing insulting about bringing up some humorously hot takes from the past. I looked at the people's twitters who made the tweets in question and they didn't have a problem with it.
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Love the tweet. Love that people are still sadly clinging to their arguments that taking the risk was wrong even if it worked out.
I think you got things mixed up. Miller was an established NHL player who, except for the previous season, was increasing his point production every year. In 2 out of his 3 previous seasons he produced 55+ points. The "massive underdog" in your example would be the pick that the Canucks traded for Miller. There was POTENTIALLY a big payout if the Canucks miss the playoffs the next two seasons and win the draft lottery in 2021.
Svencouver
Registered User
Yeah I think there's fair credit to be offered to Vancouver for their pro scouting on Miller, beyond just being a bet on red situation. Given that he was quote unquote "buried" in the bottom 6 of Tampas roster, it was a good tab to take out on a player who had a lot of energy, grit, skill, and finishing ability and give him an opportunity on a team that could really let those things shine
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