AvsMakar08
Registered User
MacK said that Makar might want 20. We need to save cap for Makar.
What are your thoughts on the Rantanen trade?
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GettingYourMoms
Registered User
- Jun 6, 2018
- 2,399
- 2,215
That's the guy I'd pay a lot of money to stay. He is the best buddies with Toews so I am hoping he is reasonable, but yes he could ask for the moon.
AvsMakar08
Registered User
Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
- 50,342
- 17,684
Rantanen and his agent possibly misread the situation. They have employed brinksmanship in the past and Avs might have decided they were not going to have this drag on this time.
At trade deadline the best you can get for a rental Rantanen might not be Necas but a worse player.
If Rantanen isn't happy with how this played out, he should look at his agent first.
At trade deadline the best you can get for a rental Rantanen might not be Necas but a worse player.
If Rantanen isn't happy with how this played out, he should look at his agent first.
If he signs in the open market he could get that or close to it depending on term. If he tries the Matthews 2-3 year deal for sure 20m is in play and the Avs could pay it. Will be interesting to see if the Avs are still trying to keep the band together at that point or if they move Cale for a boatload of prospects if they decide that is the time to rebuild. That's one they definitely shouldn't trade in-season, even one season of Cale at 9m with the rights to negotiate first has to be worth a huge package.
My guess is Mikko probably wanted the Avs to make him feel super wanted with a big deal. If that wouldn't happen he would prefer to hit the open market so he can pick his situation. Surely Mikko of all players understands the value of his linemates, his struggles when he's been moved down to try to bolster the 2nd has made that abundantly clear.
@S E P H
I see you, you just wanted to be able to see all of the lurkers we have.
4D chess
And the moon he shall have
I see you, you just wanted to be able to see all of the lurkers we have.
4D chess
And the moon he shall have
TatteredTornNFrayed
...ocelot spleens...
- Jan 15, 2008
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Agree with that, I personally would have signed him myself for 12, perhaps even closer to 13 if he had shown a strong willingness to sign for near that now. But even if he does end up signing for Carolina for 12ish, it does not guarantee he would have signed with CO for that.
I feel pretty sure he and his agent would have never accepted 12 pre trade deadline. They felt they could push this to the last minute, like the last time he signed, and increase their leverage with competing UFA offers to get as much as possible, and perhaps still then decide to stay with the Avs for less than their "ask". But they thought they could use the UFA pressure for more than they were being told by the Avs was their limit.
And it was in this context, that MacFarland had to make his decision whether to let this continue to the offseason, and then truly not be able to make a competitive offer, and get nothing as Mikko possibly decides he can't give a ~$2M discount. Because I suspect based on how discussions had been going, they knew Mikko's agents were willing to go past the trade deadline without meeting in the middle.
TatteredTornNFrayed
...ocelot spleens...
- Jan 15, 2008
- 839
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Lehkonen, Nichushkin, and Landeskog is really pretty strong in this regard, if we weren't nearly always stuck icing only 1 of them.
flyfysher
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2012
- 6,597
- 5,246
Avs are on their way to becoming a more balanced team. Unfortunate to have to trade Rants but CMac has a responsibility to shrewdly manage assets and still have the team be competitive.
It's been so very clear this team was not going to have success the same way Crosby, Malkin, and Letang did.
If Mikko was a center maybe, but he isn't, and he wasn't able to drive the bus by himself when needed anymore.
I actually got sick of watching the train wreck. The goalie shit, and the inconsistency almost killed the season for me. I did not want to watch this team continue down that road.
forsbergavs32
Hangman’s OF Walking Advertisement
That’s why I’m glad CMac had the balls to make big changes with the goaltending and moving Mikko once he knew a deal wasn’t happening. The team will be more balanced. Will it result in another cup? We don’t know, but I do know we can’t fault CMac, because he’s doing everything possible to give us a chance
The team is just more fun to watch this way. Being able to roll four lines against NY on the second night of a back to back was refreshing, and Nuke is still out.
No forward over 20 minutes in a game we scored 5 goals. Beautiful
Now get the D some help and get Makar's minutes down.
flyfysher
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2012
- 6,597
- 5,246
That’s true about CMac trying to give the team a chance to win the SC this year. The context is different than when Sakic was GM. Take advantage of the contention window now. I would like CMac to get Jones. That would do so much in terms of solidifying the D.
flyfysher
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2012
- 6,597
- 5,246
Who is more vital to the team’s chances of winning the SC? Rants or Nuke.
Since Rants wants 14M. I get to answer Nuke, Necas, and Blackwood.
Who was more important healthy? Landeskog or Rantanen? I think Nuke is about as close as you get to replacing what Landeskog brought on the ice.
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
- 52,940
- 32,793
I have so many thoughts on this trade at this point, I need to flesh them out a bit with a long post here.
My original thoughts were it was highly unlikely they trade Mikko in season, because teams don't trade players like that, and it would risk deflating the team, especially Nate. I thought it would most likely play out the same way negotiations played out with Gabe signing at the last minute.
Then Lavoie’s report came out and I started to think wow they really may trade him. Which I would have been ok with if a few things happened.
1) They made a strong last minute push to sign Mikko to a fair number close to or at Nate’s $12.6M and had an honest conversation with Mikko about not being able to go higher and that they would have to move if if he wanted more.
2) They had a good idea that the Avs core, especially Nate would understand the business side of this, or could pull a habit out of their hat to bring in his buddy Crosby, to avoid deflating the team, it’s stars, and killing off any chance of winning this year.
3) They got a good return and used the cap savings on a good 2C and D man.
The first two look like they didn’t really happen and we’re still waiting on the third. I’m ok with Nate’s presser, but the fact he said he talked with Gabe and Cale after talking to Mikko, and didn’t say it was about how they’d regroup moving forward, sounds like they might have all been caught off guard and might be pretty pissed. EJ’s “what the hell” comment might sum up how they feel. He knows them pretty well.
It sounds like they were only willing to give him an AAV in the $11M’s, likely about $11.75M, while Mikko is saying he didn’t need $14M, and reports are he would have been ok with a number close to Nate’s.
Quite frankly, the Avs saying they were willing to make him the highest paid winger in the NHL is a bunch of bullshit. Panarin has the highest AAV at $11.642M. Nylander is making $11.5M. Panarin signed his deal 6 years ago and Nylander a year ago. If they were both UFA’s this year they’d make a lot more. Meanwhile Mikko is better than both, and when Marner and Kaprizov sign their next deals, they will likely be getting at least $13M+. Possibly $14M+.
Which makes any contract in the $11M’s kind of a slap in the face. It was obvious the whole time that an AAV close to Nate’s made the most sense. His deal will be very underpaid soon and Mikko is signing with a much higher cap in place.
Combine that with reports that the Avs talked about this deal in the off season and their seeming unwillingness to get close to Nate’s deal, and it’s starting to sound to me like they might have never intended to sign Mikko in the first place.
It sounds like the plan all along might have been to use his cap hit to spread around and improve the depth. Which I think makes sense, but how much do you really need when the cap could be $98M next year, and over $100M in a couple years?
I don’t expect them to come out and admit this was their plan, but at the same time, it kind of feels like we got taken for a ride by the team. Thinking they wanted to sign him when perhaps they never did.
Will wait to reserve judgement on this new team building strategy until I see what else they do with their new found cap space, but if Mikko would have taken around Nate’s deal, I feel like they might have been able to get the depth they needed, with the cap jumps coming up. They don’t even know if Gabe will be on the team long term.
Very interested to see what trades CMac makes the rest of the year. Gonna need to replace Mikko's goal scoring somehow.
My original thoughts were it was highly unlikely they trade Mikko in season, because teams don't trade players like that, and it would risk deflating the team, especially Nate. I thought it would most likely play out the same way negotiations played out with Gabe signing at the last minute.
Then Lavoie’s report came out and I started to think wow they really may trade him. Which I would have been ok with if a few things happened.
1) They made a strong last minute push to sign Mikko to a fair number close to or at Nate’s $12.6M and had an honest conversation with Mikko about not being able to go higher and that they would have to move if if he wanted more.
2) They had a good idea that the Avs core, especially Nate would understand the business side of this, or could pull a habit out of their hat to bring in his buddy Crosby, to avoid deflating the team, it’s stars, and killing off any chance of winning this year.
3) They got a good return and used the cap savings on a good 2C and D man.
The first two look like they didn’t really happen and we’re still waiting on the third. I’m ok with Nate’s presser, but the fact he said he talked with Gabe and Cale after talking to Mikko, and didn’t say it was about how they’d regroup moving forward, sounds like they might have all been caught off guard and might be pretty pissed. EJ’s “what the hell” comment might sum up how they feel. He knows them pretty well.
It sounds like they were only willing to give him an AAV in the $11M’s, likely about $11.75M, while Mikko is saying he didn’t need $14M, and reports are he would have been ok with a number close to Nate’s.
Quite frankly, the Avs saying they were willing to make him the highest paid winger in the NHL is a bunch of bullshit. Panarin has the highest AAV at $11.642M. Nylander is making $11.5M. Panarin signed his deal 6 years ago and Nylander a year ago. If they were both UFA’s this year they’d make a lot more. Meanwhile Mikko is better than both, and when Marner and Kaprizov sign their next deals, they will likely be getting at least $13M+. Possibly $14M+.
Which makes any contract in the $11M’s kind of a slap in the face. It was obvious the whole time that an AAV close to Nate’s made the most sense. His deal will be very underpaid soon and Mikko is signing with a much higher cap in place.
Combine that with reports that the Avs talked about this deal in the off season and their seeming unwillingness to get close to Nate’s deal, and it’s starting to sound to me like they might have never intended to sign Mikko in the first place.
It sounds like the plan all along might have been to use his cap hit to spread around and improve the depth. Which I think makes sense, but how much do you really need when the cap could be $98M next year, and over $100M in a couple years?
I don’t expect them to come out and admit this was their plan, but at the same time, it kind of feels like we got taken for a ride by the team. Thinking they wanted to sign him when perhaps they never did.
Will wait to reserve judgement on this new team building strategy until I see what else they do with their new found cap space, but if Mikko would have taken around Nate’s deal, I feel like they might have been able to get the depth they needed, with the cap jumps coming up. They don’t even know if Gabe will be on the team long term.
Very interested to see what trades CMac makes the rest of the year. Gonna need to replace Mikko's goal scoring somehow.
Linds
Makalder
- Jun 20, 2016
- 1,452
- 1,405
Sakic and Cmac were not oblivious to Mikko's lazy side of side of his game either. Which unfortunately was most of the time
niwotsblessing
Registered User
There were times this season he was not worth the 9+ mil he's currently getting.
A few years ago Nuke talked about the positive influence Nate was on him in regard to training, diet, and so forth. I will be happy when Necas adopts Nate's diet and training regimen.
Jasenr
Registered User
- Nov 25, 2024
- 203
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If he ever manages to survive another playoffs push to the end then maybe. Even 2022 because of the foot injury it was on the line he wont finish that series on the ice.
All the bad things said about Mikko he still was on the ice doing shit for 20+ minutes every game. Like said couple post above Val has only managed 65 and 62 game season years ago plus the couple ugly playoffs events. I like him as a player but man you should get much more out of his to say Nuke over Mikko.
Still shocked to my core that he’s gone, but I think the Avs made the right decision. I also hold no ill will whatsoever toward Mikko, dude wants to get paid and I’d want the same in his place.
Jasenr
Registered User
- Nov 25, 2024
- 203
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@LOFIN I think no-one should draw any conclusions about Mikko´s next contract regarding to what he would have signed in Avs for. Hometown discount is not in play anymore.
If I would be Mikko I might give a 5+ year contender discount if right team offers a contract. Otherwise money all the way. Avs are a goner for him so he can do whatever he pleases now since CMac pulled the trigger.
If I would be Mikko I might give a 5+ year contender discount if right team offers a contract. Otherwise money all the way. Avs are a goner for him so he can do whatever he pleases now since CMac pulled the trigger.
Well if we give hime the benifit of the doubt he would have given discount as he says. But thats clearly of the table now since he is free to see the market. Contender teams have a say with roster construction and stanley cup offer in mind but otherwise no.
I think “discount” is subjective. If Friedman is right, the Avs were ready to make him the highest-paid winger in hockey, higher than Panarin. But that’s a sizable step back from what MacKinnon, Matthews, and Draisaitl are making. So if he turned that down, okay. Again, don’t blame him because that’s significantly less than what he’d get on the market. But I also don’t blame the Avs given their cap situation either.
Jasenr
Registered User
- Nov 25, 2024
- 203
- 252
Yeah I dont blame anyone either.
Just saying that no-one should draw conclusion about his next AAV since its most likely not the same AAV it would have been with the Avs.
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