What are the top 3 individual regular seasons of all-time outside of the big 4?

[MadLuke]

Some that come to mind

McDavid 2020-2021
Jagr 1998-1999
Esposito 70-71
Mikita 66-67
Ovechkin 09-10
Jagr 95-96
Malkin 11-12
McDavid 19-20
Jagr 00-01
Jagr 97-98
Morenz 27-28
Hull 65-66
Forsberg 02-03
Sakic 00-01
Kane 15-16
Lindros 98-99
Yzerman 88-89

----
Hasek 93-94/96-97/97-98/98-99

 

[Michael Farkas]

Ah yes. Denis Maruk. Greatest Washington Capital of all time.

Second best*

Jeff Schultz's peak can't be ignored...+50 in 2010!

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

McDavid of two years ago vs. 1927-28 Morenz is a chestnut that might have to wait for my afterlife to be able to crack. Morenz had the best pre-Howe Regular Season. McDavid seems to have had the best post-Lemieux Regular Season. Will a McDavid season be the greatest season of the half-century 2000-2050? I'll probably assume ambient-air-temperature before that answer is clear [unless McDavid or somebody else uncorks one for the ages and visits peak Gretzky territory before then].

Hot take: even granting Hasek the generous allowance of disregarding The Playoffs, is his 1997-1998 clearly better than Bernie Parent's 1973-1974?! A few years back, I synthesized a "Save Percentage vs. 3" stat as kind of an imperfect Goaltender parallel to VsX. Doubtless it would benefit from some fine-tuning by a stats-wiz... but I STILL like it (flaws & all) over "Goals Saved Above Average," for instance. [Third highest performance-rate among Goaltenders in-the-league seems a more stable measuring-stick than average Goaltender in-the-league... which during Plante's time would be somebody like Harry Lumley, and during Parent's time would be like the much less-regarded Eddie Johnston, and during Hasek's time would be, like- Andy Moog territory.]

In 1997-98, Hasek was in 72 of 82 games, his best "strike-rate" ever. (This superior games-played rate is why I consider this to be his best season- over the higher save-percentage rate 1998-99.)
1973-74 Parent appeared in 73 of 78 games.

Hasek's .932 Save Percentage is good for a "Vs3" of 1.011. Anything over 1 means typically means that you're either a strong 2nd place, or (as in these cases), a league-leader. The ".011" is statistically significant... it's 21 less goals on the scoreboard than 97-98's third place rate would have gotten you. [Assuming a 30 shot-per-game/70 starts-per-season paradigm, which (based on a quick-and-dirty glance) appears to be a slight overestimate of shot-volume that year.]

Parent's identical .932 Save Percentage is good for a "Vs3" of 1.025. Applying the same constants, this is 27 fewer goals than would have been yielded by that year's third-place performance.

So... comparing 1973-74 Parent to 1997-98 Hasek:
Parent played more games, a higher percentage of games, stopped pucks at the same rate, and outperformed most of his higher-level peers by a greater margin. How can we conclude he did worse, that year?!?

Because of the team in front of him vs what was in front of Hasek.

Clarke, MacLeish, Barber vs Satan, Zhitnik, Audette, Peca

 

[bobholly39]

Some that come to mind

McDavid 2020-2021
Jagr 1998-1999
Esposito 70-71
Mikita 66-67
Ovechkin 09-10
Jagr 95-96
Malkin 11-12
McDavid 19-20
Jagr 00-01
Jagr 97-98
Morenz 27-28
Hull 65-66
Forsberg 02-03
Sakic 00-01
Kane 15-16
Lindros 98-99
Yzerman 88-89

----
Hasek 93-94/96-97/97-98/98-99

Really curious about the ones in bold...I almost feel like maybe you got some years confused?

Ovechkin 09-10 was great, but isn't his 2008 season generally regarded as better? Or do you disagree?
McDavid in 2019-2020....he was really good of course, but wasn't Draisaitl even better that year?
Jagr in 2001 and in 1998....strong seasons, but all-time? I suppose you did list his stronger seasons too, so maybe you just like Jagr a lot.
Forsberg 2002-2003...honestly, I don't think it's that good. I think Forsberg had it in him to put together more of a "perfect storm" peak season than he did. It's a good season, but in an all-time sense I think it's not even top 20 outside the big 4.
And Lindros 98-99...that's gotta be at best his 3rd best season, after 95 and 96 no? Why that season specifically?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Really curious about the ones in bold...I almost feel like maybe you got some years confused?

Ovechkin 09-10 was great, but isn't his 2008 season generally regarded as better? Or do you disagree?
McDavid in 2019-2020....he was really good of course, but wasn't Draisaitl even better that year?
Jagr in 2001 and in 1998....strong seasons, but all-time? I suppose you did list his stronger seasons too, so maybe you just like Jagr a lot.
Forsberg 2002-2003...honestly, I don't think it's that good. I think Forsberg had it in him to put together more of a "perfect storm" peak season than he did. It's a good season, but in an all-time sense I think it's not even top 20 outside the big 4.
And Lindros 98-99...that's gotta be at best his 3rd best season, after 95 and 96 no? Why that season specifically?

Yeah i dont know how they didnt pick 2021 for McDavid. 105 in 56 games (1.88 ppg) and a unanimous Hart win

 

[bobholly39]

Yeah i dont know how they didnt pick 2021 for McDavid. 105 in 56 games (1.88 ppg) and a unanimous Hart win

He had that season listed as well.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Ovechkin played better hockey in 2009-10 than 2007-08, but missed time and really slowed down after the Olympics.

That opening ~50 games was Ovechkin at his very best.

 

[MadLuke]

Ovechkin 09-10 was great, but isn't his 2008 season generally regarded as better? Or do you disagree?

Alex Ovechkin - Summary - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

In 2009-2010 Ovechkin had a goal for ratio of 70.27% at 5v5 (he was on the ice for 78 goals for versus just 33 goals against) which is one of the best numbers of all time, he scored goals and points at the highest rate of his career at 5v5 has well by a big amount.

His 1.51 ppg was a clear separation versus the rest of the league (over peak Sedins playing together and prime Crosby):

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

only time in his career, Ovechkin achieved that. Could be a bias of being the only year Montreal faced him in the playoff or his team being the best it ever was during his career (but was a bit of chicken and egg was it the best editions of the Caps because he was at his best ?)

They are really 3 close season peak Ovechkin, taste between them.

Forsberg was +52 during a low scoring year (Joe Sakic was +4 on the same team that year)

Yeah i dont know how they didnt pick 2021 for McDavid. 105 in 56 games (1.88 ppg) and a unanimous Hart win

The ranking is roughly in order, i.e. that was my first pick.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Dark horse for Sakic 2001

 

[Midnight Judges]

For Ovechkin, I think whatever positive differences you guys are seeing between '08 and '10 were team contributions. Supporting cast was significantly better in '10. A .14 PPG increase coupled with a .10 GPG decrease are pretty small fluctuations.

In 2008 Ovie had a better season IMO. 101 primary points. Outscored nearest teammate by 43 points, doubled up next teammate in goals (2 different players). Dragged a rather crappy Capitals team into the playoffs for the first time in years. Won Art Ross, Richard, Hart, Pearson. 11 GWGs.

Truly though, from 2007-2010 this was largely the same player doing the same sorts of things and whatever variances are in there are within what ought to be expected from a quite consistent player.

Dark horse for Sakic 2001

That is not a dark horse IMO. It's a legit fantastic season.

 

[frisco]

Has been mentioned, but Brett Hull's 86-goal year (2nd place had 51) in 90-91 was outstanding.

My Best-Carey

 

[jigglysquishy]

For Ovechkin, I think whatever positive differences you guys are seeing between '08 and '10 were team contributions. Supporting cast was significantly better in '10. A .14 PPG increase coupled with a .10 GPG decrease are pretty small fluctuations.

In 2008 Ovie had a better season IMO. 101 primary points. Outscored nearest teammate by 43 points, doubled up next teammate in goals (2 different players). Dragged a rather crappy Capitals team into the playoffs for the first time in years. Won Art Ross, Richard, Hart, Pearson. 11 GWGs.

Truly though, from 2007-2010 this was largely the same player doing the same sorts of things and whatever variances are in there are within what ought to be expected from a quite consistent player.

This downplays just how strong he started the year. After 51 games he was on pace for 68 goals and 138 points. Watching it live, it was Ovechkin at his very best.

He never came back to form after the Olympics, but that 51 game stretch was insanity.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

I thought I'd dredge this thread- because I had memory that no-one contributed a non-NHL season to the discussion. The OP doesn't specify NHL season being necessary to meet the criterion... so I was surprised that nobody mentioned any stints like Bill Cook's 1923-24 campaign for WCHL Saskatoon.

I'd like to go ahead and discuss Jan Suchý's 1968-69 season, though. He led the Czechoslovak League in scoring- from the Blue Line- by nearly 20% over teammate Jiri Holík and Rival/Hall-of-Famer Vaclav Nedomanský. It's probable that no Defenseman had a better offensive season until Orr came onto the scene- and it's likely that no Defenseman has had a better one since Orr left the scene.

How can we convert such a season into our favorite Offensive Currency- NHL-equivalent VsX? Well, let's start with Nedomanský. He's a mainstream Hall-of-Famer- and our "Top-200" project equivalents were Sundin & Stamkos. Works for me. [Well... Frank Fredrickson is an equivalent, too-- but the numbers of the other two are easier to work with.] 1968-69 Nedomanský had (what I figure to be) his fourth best offensive season of his career that year. So, we'll look up the the fourth best VsX seasons of Sundin & Stamkos. Take the LOWER of the two. (That would be Sundin's 96-97 year.) Perform a ratiocination to that figure to get a Czechoslovak equivalent benchmark. Then divide Suchý's points by the benchmark. You'd get a figure of (to the nearest whole number) 102. That's the LOW end. If we use the 4th best offensive season of Stamkos, instead, that number becomes 104. And THAT's before taking into account that the Czechoslovak League appears to have- on its face- undercounted Assists. [An Assist undercount is a rising tide that lifts the boats of all scorers... but it would lift Defensemen more than it would lift Forwards.]

Then there's that matter of Suchý being instrumental in two victories in the head-to-head match-ups against the Soviets in the 1969 World Championships...

 

[buffalowing88]

06-07 Pronger was just a force of nature. It's not impressive enough in terms of awards voting but I think that was partially a reflection of him missing games/dirty play. But I don't recall many players who just physically dominated to that extent while also approaching PPG territory and playing 27+ minutes a night. He was equally as dominant in the playoffs but couldn't control his temper and was suspended but when he played he was out there for 30 minutes and just shutting down some excellent offenses.

 

[JackSlater]

06-07 Pronger was just a force of nature. It's not impressive enough in terms of awards voting but I think that was partially a reflection of him missing games/dirty play. But I don't recall many players who just physically dominated to that extent while also approaching PPG territory and playing 27+ minutes a night. He was equally as dominant in the playoffs but couldn't control his temper and was suspended but when he played he was out there for 30 minutes and just shutting down some excellent offenses.

It's somewhat typical of Pronger in that he very likely wins the Norris and probably wins the Conn Smythe if not for a few minor injuries (or suspensions that he brought on himself) but ends up with nothing. Well, outside of the Stanley Cup.

 

[Matsun]

I think this season by McDavid is not only the best season outside the big 4, I also think it's better than any season by Howe.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Tim Thomas 2010-2011

 

[Mike C]

Pat Lafontaine 148 points
Bernie Nichols 150
Denis Maruk 136
Dionne 136
Kent Nillson 136
Mogilny/Selanne127/132
Guy Lafleur 136

Denis Maruk! Nice blast from the past

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I think this season by McDavid is not only the best season outside the big 4, I also think it's better than any season by Howe.

Not even better than 1999 jagr

 

[PostBradMalone]

Not even better than 1999 jagr

Lol what?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lol what?

If its better fine? But explain how it's much greater cause scoring is much higher now and jagr didn't have a drai taking regular shifts with him.

 

[MS]

Has been mentioned, but Brett Hull's 86-goal year (2nd place had 51) in 90-91 was outstanding.

My Best-Carey

First season I thought of when I saw the thread title.

 

[jigglysquishy]

But explain how it's much greater cause scoring is much higher now

We can compare them to their peers pretty directly. Both played in international 30+ leagues. This is McDavid at the end of his game today (so 150 points)

Season	Vs2	Vs3	Vs5	Vs10	Vs20
McDavid 22-23	1.22	1.39	1.44	1.53	1.83
Jagr 98-99	1.19	1.26	1.32	1.43	1.76

In every single metric, McDavid comes out ahead. So it comes down to how much you want to weigh the Draisaitl factor. He absolutely boosts McDavid, but I think we're talking more 5-10 points than 15-20 points. And Jagr was a better EVP player.

But the offensive gap is very real. McDavid's 22-23 is the largest offensive gap to peers outside the Big Four (and Morenz kind of and Esposito not really).

Jagr's 98-99 is really strong, and on the short list for best regular seasons outside the Big Four. But the 20 point game over Selanne ignores the 6 GP difference. The Jagr->Selanne gap is much smaller than the McDavid->Kucherov gap all things considered.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I think this season by McDavid is not only the best season outside the big 4, I also think it's better than any season by Howe.

I think it's close, but I do still go to Howe. Comparing them to closest Canadian non-teammate.

Season	Player	Points	Next NT Canadian	Points	Ratio	#3 NT Canadian	Ratio
McDavid 22-23	McDavid	150	MacKinnon	104	1.44	100	1.50
Howe 52-53	Howe	95	Richard	61	1.56	59	1.61

It's close, but Howe dominated his Canadian peers to a larger degree. The points alone are ignoring the massive defensive/physicality gap.

I think McDavid 22-23 could just be the best non-Big Four season, but I don't think it's quite on the level of a peak Howe.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Without putting too much thought/effort into this, what are the top ten seasons from a non-Big Three forward?

• Morenz 1928
• Beliveau 1956
• Hull 1966
• Esposito 1971 (HM to a few other seasons)
• Lafleur 1977 (tougher to pick just one season, but this is probably his best)
• Fedorov 1994
• Jagr 1999
• Ovechkin 2008 (HM to 2010)
• McDavid 2023 (HM to 2021)

Other ideas for the 10th spot

• Cowley 1941
• Mikita 1967
• Clarke 1976
• Trottier 1979
• Yzerman 1989
• Hull 1991
• Sakic 2001

This is based on five minutes of thinking - am I missing anyone obvious? Something from Richard, Nighbor, or Bossy? Or something more modern (ie Kane 2016, Kucherov 2019, Malkin 2012 etc)?

(EDIT - for the record, I put my list together without reading the rest of the thread first).