What are the top 3 individual regular seasons of all-time outside of the big 4?

[bobholly39]

I think between Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux and Howe - they have the best regular seasons in the history of the sport. Maybe as much as the top 15- 20 seasons between the 4 of them.

What are the top 3 individual regular seasons of all-time for you outside of the big 4? Regular season only, ignoring playoffs.

I ask partly because Connor McDavid is currently in the midst a spectacular season almost ~50 games in, and I wonder how high his season might rank in an all-time sense if he can see it through completion.

Some of the seasons I feel could be in contention include:

- Phil Esposito 70-71, sets records for goals (76) and points (152)
- Hasek (which season is his best? 98? 99? 97?)
- Jagr...probably 1999? I personally like 1996 too, but hard to differentiate from Lemieux
- Beliveau 1956. his playoffs are also spectacular that season, does he make the top 3 on regular season alone?

I'm sure there are many others to choose from - maybe one player even has 2 seasons that make the top 3 for you?

Curious to see what seasons you guys have here.

Click to read more...

 

[daver]

Bobby Hull's 65/66

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

If picking an Esposito season, I'd make the arguement for 1972-73. While not the domination of '71, it is the only season by a non Big 4 player where they led the league in goals, assists and points. Plus he did still win the Ross by 25% over Clarke that season

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

First one I thought of was the 1927-28 season of Howie Morenz-

Led league in: Goals/Assists/Points. His 51 points were a dozen ahead of his closest pursuer, teammate Aurele Joliat. VsX total was 145.7. In context, I previously described it as a "peak-Lemieux-imitation." I do NOT regret saying so.

 

[jigglysquishy]

First one I thought of was the 1927-28 season of Howie Morenz-

Led league in: Goals/Assists/Points. His 51 points were a dozen ahead of his closest pursuer, teammate Aurele Joliat. VsX total was 145.7. In context, I previously described it as a "peak-Lemieux-imitation." I do NOT regret saying so.

For context, this is the 13th highest ever. Outside the Big Four and Espo, only McDavid 2021 has ever posted a higher number.

 

[JackSlater]

Looking post-WW2, Beliveau's 1956, Hull's 1966, Jagr's 1999, and one of Hasek's peak seasons which tend to bleed into each other in my memory. Those stand out the most to me.

If Esposito is going to be mentioned, I'd definitely go with 1969 as his best season. Among non-Orr defencemen it's probably between Potvin or Bourque for best season. Ovechkin in 2008 isn't a top three contender but it is up there.

 

[Michael Farkas]

No mention of 155 yet...?

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

No mention of 155 yet...?

If it was the top season by a Detroit Forward in the last 35 years, then maybe--

However, since it isn't...

 

[norrisnick]

If it was the top season by a Detroit Forward in the last 35 years, then maybe--

However, since it isn't...

Why should he get punished for overlapping with Wayne and Mario?

'71 Esposito is in the OP with a 139pt Hart/Norris winner on his own team that year.

Yzerman outscored his nearest teammate by 63pts.

 

[Hobnobs]

If it was the top season by a Detroit Forward in the last 35 years, then maybe--

However, since it isn't...

What do you even mean by this?

 

[BraveCanadian]

Yzerman's 155 is an obvious candidate as the only mortal to get close to the 160 bar that Gretzky and Lemieux set. Orr or not, Espo has to be mentioned as well.

Gilmour 92-93 and to a lesser extent Fedorov in 93-94 (he had a lot more help) were outstanding all around seasons. Gilmour WAS the Leafs.

Jagr of course.

For old timey guys.. Nels Stewarts huge season is probably a candidate?

 

[The Panther]

I used to have a thread somewhat about this topic, but it didn't make the migration to the new site format.

Anyway, some choices would seem (to me) to be as follows:
-- Howie Morenz, 1927-28
-- Jean Béliveau, 1955-56
-- Phil Esposito, 1970-71
-- Steve Yzerman, 1988-89
-- Patrick Roy, 1988-89
-- Dominik Hašek, 1993-94
-- Dominik Hašek, 1996-97
-- Dominik Hašek, 1997-98
-- Jaromír Jágr, 1995-96
-- Jaromír Jágr, 1998-99
-- Connor McDavid, 2021
-- Connor McDavid, 2022-23 (wait and see)

The 2nd level might be some of these:
-- Cooney Weiland, 1929-30
-- Eddie Shore, 1932-33
-- Maurice Richard, 1946-47
-- Doug Harvey, 1956-57 (?)
-- Jacques Plante, 1958-59
-- Bobby Hull, 1965-66
-- Phil Esposito, 1968-69
-- Phil Esposito, 1973-74
-- Bobby Clarke, 1974-75
-- Guy Lafleur, 1976-77
-- Guy Lafleur, 1977-78
-- Bryan Trottier, 1978-79
-- Marcel Dionne, 1979-80
-- Ray Bourque, 1986-87
-- Ray Bourque, 1989-90
-- Mark Messier, 1989-90
-- Brett Hull, 1990-91
-- Pat Lafontaine, 1992-93
-- Dominik Hašek, 1998-99
-- Chris Pronger, 1999-00
-- Nicklas Lidström 2002-03
-- Peter Forsberg, 2002-03
-- Alex Ovechkin, 2007-08
-- Sidney Crosby, 2013-14
-- Nikita Kucherov, 2018-19


After this we get to level 3, which is the peak-Babe Dye / Elmer Lach / Stan Mikita / Mike Bossy / Jari Kurri / Joe Sakic / Leon Draisaitl / Auston Matthews level...

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

What do you even mean by this?

1989 Yzerman: win Ross if not for Gretzky/Lemieux
1994 Fedorov: win Ross if not for Gretzky
1989 Yzerman: have Pearson
1994 Fedorov: see that Pearson & raise you a Hart
1989 Yzerman: led Forwards on team in Plus/Minus
1994 Fedorov: led Forwards in League in Plus/Minus

This is before we get to the difference between "just outside top-10" in Selke voting vs. Selke winner... and the team benefit from commtting penalties nearly half-as-often.

 

[crobro]

Pat Lafontaine 148 points
Bernie Nichols 150
Denis Maruk 136
Dionne 136
Kent Nillson 136
Mogilny/Selanne127/132
Guy Lafleur 136

 

[Hobnobs]

1989 Yzerman: win Ross if not for Gretzky/Lemieux
1994 Fedorov: win Ross if not for Gretzky
1989 Yzerman: have Pearson
1994 Fedorov: see that Pearson & raise you a Hart
1989 Yzerman: led Forwards on team in Plus/Minus
1994 Fedorov: led Forwards in League in Plus/Minus

This is before we get to the difference between "just outside top-10" in Selke voting vs. Selke winner... and the team benefit from commtting penalties nearly half-as-often.

Not sure how Fedorov being a great player diminishes Yzerman accomplishments on a worse team but ok.

 

[Gurglesons]

Surprised not to see Evgeni Malkin's 11-12 mentioned.

 

[markymarc1215]

Selanne scoring 76 as a rookie HAS to be in this conversation

 

[tabness]

If it was the top season by a Detroit Forward in the last 35 years, then maybe--

However, since it isn't...

I'll go with this, though not exactly in the direction you're going in (definitely not interested in a hockey reference esque convo with awards placements either lol), and yeah Fedorov in 1993-1994 is right up there with Yzerman at his best for sure, although even then, I suggest checking out what the late Bryan Murray had said about the comparison in the Vlad the Impaler book that just came out, I'll see if I can dig it up.

I think Yzerman never played better than in 1992-1993 actually, just that the stats may not be as good because of the depth at center (although after Carson was traded Yzerman was back at a two points a game clip), as well as the way the Wings ran the powerplay, where Yzerman and Fedorov units split the time and didn't play with each other. So with a league leading 113 powerplay goals, Yzerman was only on for a little more than half of them at 61 with 41 points on those. Had he had deployment like many of the other star forwards that year who were on for much more of their powerplay opportunities, he'd probably clock in with 60-70ish powerplay points as a conservative estimate, taking him into the 150+ range again. Only three powerplay points together with Fedorov lol.

I get the point about less help and all, but at least in 1988-1989, Yzerman had Paul MacLean (though MacLean sucked in the second half and was even benched during the playoffs) as well as the Klima Oates Barr line that came on in the second half, then you look at Yzerman's 1989-1990 season without Oates, Klima also traded, Barr sucking most the year, and Joey Kocur (and Daniel Shank) replacing Paul MacLean lol... It's right up there with 1988-1989 and 1992-1993.

Same sort of thing happened for Fedorov in 1993-1994, 85 Red Wing powerplay goals, Fedorov on for only 51 of them, with 28 powerplay points, only five together with Yzerman. He crushed the league in even strength points of course, well above Jagr (though Lindros woulda probably passed him if he played the full year, and Yzerman himself woulda gotten close). Even with the low points involvement on the powerplay, you'd think he has a shot at 130+ if he played a bit more of the opportunities, and a bit more with Yzerman.

Going outside the Wings for a bit:

I ran the numbers on "important clutch goals" (tying/go ahead) for every big time goal scorer, I figured Brett Hull 86 goal year would be the best anyway given how he always seemed to score at the important times that year. The very best of them, in their biggest years and what not with huge goal totals don't exceed high thirties of these goals. Brett Hull has 39 freaking go ahead goals alone, and add 14 tying goals for a true 50 goal scorer lol

The great Paul Coffey's got some years that gotta get some love. 1985-1986 has the statistical argument and the record for sure (over 100 even strength and shorthanded points and primary points too quite comfortably surpass even the highest of Orr not to mention anyone else), but 1984-1985 is probably when he played his best hockey, a bit conservative offensively to start, but really got going at the end of the year into the playoffs, just incredible, competing only against himself and memories of Orr.

Patty LaFontaine got a mention here, but I'll second it, not just 1992-1993, but as soon as he came to Buffalo, he went nuts and only injuries could stop him. Just an everything player for that franchise. Though him in the 1989-1990 Islanders is maybe the best example of a guy on an actual island that I'm aware of.

 

[crobro]

Brett Hull 86 goal season

Adam Oates 142 points

Cam Neely unofficial 50 in 44 season

Charlie Simmers back to back 56 goals 65 game seasons back to back

Jean Ratelle 109 points in 61 games with the rangers

Bossy and Trottier are on this list somewhere

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

For context, this is the 13th highest ever. Outside the Big Four and Espo, only McDavid 2021 has ever posted a higher number.

McDavid of two years ago vs. 1927-28 Morenz is a chestnut that might have to wait for my afterlife to be able to crack. Morenz had the best pre-Howe Regular Season. McDavid seems to have had the best post-Lemieux Regular Season. Will a McDavid season be the greatest season of the half-century 2000-2050? I'll probably assume ambient-air-temperature before that answer is clear [unless McDavid or somebody else uncorks one for the ages and visits peak Gretzky territory before then].

Hot take: even granting Hasek the generous allowance of disregarding The Playoffs, is his 1997-1998 clearly better than Bernie Parent's 1973-1974?! A few years back, I synthesized a "Save Percentage vs. 3" stat as kind of an imperfect Goaltender parallel to VsX. Doubtless it would benefit from some fine-tuning by a stats-wiz... but I STILL like it (flaws & all) over "Goals Saved Above Average," for instance. [Third highest performance-rate among Goaltenders in-the-league seems a more stable measuring-stick than average Goaltender in-the-league... which during Plante's time would be somebody like Harry Lumley, and during Parent's time would be like the much less-regarded Eddie Johnston, and during Hasek's time would be, like- Andy Moog territory.]

In 1997-98, Hasek was in 72 of 82 games, his best "strike-rate" ever. (This superior games-played rate is why I consider this to be his best season- over the higher save-percentage rate 1998-99.)
1973-74 Parent appeared in 73 of 78 games.

Hasek's .932 Save Percentage is good for a "Vs3" of 1.011. Anything over 1 means typically means that you're either a strong 2nd place, or (as in these cases), a league-leader. The ".011" is statistically significant... it's 21 less goals on the scoreboard than 97-98's third place rate would have gotten you. [Assuming a 30 shot-per-game/70 starts-per-season paradigm, which (based on a quick-and-dirty glance) appears to be a slight overestimate of shot-volume that year.]

Parent's identical .932 Save Percentage is good for a "Vs3" of 1.025. Applying the same constants, this is 27 fewer goals than would have been yielded by that year's third-place performance.

So... comparing 1973-74 Parent to 1997-98 Hasek:
Parent played more games, a higher percentage of games, stopped pucks at the same rate, and outperformed most of his higher-level peers by a greater margin. How can we conclude he did worse, that year?!?

 

[JackSlater]

Selanne scoring 76 as a rookie HAS to be in this conversation

It's up there for one of the top three non big four seasons in 1993. Not of all time.

 

[BadgerBruce]

McDavid of two years ago vs. 1927-28 Morenz is a chestnut that might have to wait for my afterlife to be able to crack. Morenz had the best pre-Howe Regular Season. McDavid seems to have had the best post-Lemieux Regular Season. Will a McDavid season be the greatest season of the half-century 2000-2050? I'll probably assume ambient-air-temperature before that answer is clear [unless McDavid or somebody else uncorks one for the ages and visits peak Gretzky territory before then].

Hot take: even granting Hasek the generous allowance of disregarding The Playoffs, is his 1997-1998 clearly better than Bernie Parent's 1973-1974?! A few years back, I synthesized a "Save Percentage vs. 3" stat as kind of an imperfect Goaltender parallel to VsX. Doubtless it would benefit from some fine-tuning by a stats-wiz... but I STILL like it (flaws & all) over "Goals Saved Above Average," for instance. [Third highest performance-rate among Goaltenders in-the-league seems a more stable measuring-stick than average Goaltender in-the-league... which during Plante's time would be somebody like Harry Lumley, and during Parent's time would be like the much less-regarded Eddie Johnston, and during Hasek's time would be, like- Andy Moog territory.]

In 1997-98, Hasek was in 72 of 82 games, his best "strike-rate" ever. (This superior games-played rate is why I consider this to be his best season- over the higher save-percentage rate 1998-99.)
1973-74 Parent appeared in 73 of 78 games.

Hasek's .932 Save Percentage is good for a "Vs3" of 1.011. Anything over 1 means typically means that you're either a strong 2nd place, or (as in these cases), a league-leader. The ".011" is statistically significant... it's 21 less goals on the scoreboard than 97-98's third place rate would have gotten you. [Assuming a 30 shot-per-game/70 starts-per-season paradigm, which (based on a quick-and-dirty glance) appears to be a slight overestimate of shot-volume that year.]

Parent's identical .932 Save Percentage is good for a "Vs3" of 1.025. Applying the same constants, this is 27 fewer goals than would have been yielded by that year's third-place performance.

So... comparing 1973-74 Parent to 1997-98 Hasek:
Parent played more games, a higher percentage of games, stopped pucks at the same rate, and outperformed most of his higher-level peers by a greater margin. How can we conclude he did worse, that year?!?

Sawchuk in 51-52, including the playoffs, is also extraordinary.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

I believe Kane's MVP season deserves an HM. If you look at the rest of the leaderboard it looks exactly like the Benn Art Ross year. Gaudreau's 78 points is 6th place. In 2022 78 points only gets you to 37th. It was probably around the level of Kucherov's on the whole. Scoring sucked for 4 straight years but 14 Crosby, 16 Kane and 17 McDavid had really nice seasons.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I believe Kane's MVP season deserves a mention. If you look at the rest of the leaderboard it looks exactly like the Benn Art Ross year. Gaudreau's 78 points is 6th place. In 2022 78 points only gets you to 37th.

Art Ross vs6 post- lockout

Season	Art Ross Points	6th points	Ratio
2005-06	125	102	1.23
2006-07	120	100	1.20
2007-08	112	92	1.22
2008-09	113	91	1.24
2009-10	112	94	1.19
2010-11	104	86	1.21
2011-12	109	82	1.33
2012-13	60	53	1.13
2013-14	104	80	1.30
2014-15	87	78	1.12
2015-16	106	78	1.36
2016-17	100	85	1.18
2017-18	108	93	1.16
2018-19	128	100	1.28
2019-20	110	87	1.26
2020-21	105	66	1.59
2021-22	123	106	1.16

Kane's does stand out, though I'm partial to Malkin 2012.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Pat Lafontaine 148 points
Bernie Nichols 150
Denis Maruk 136
Dionne 136
Kent Nillson 136
Mogilny/Selanne127/132
Guy Lafleur 136

Ah yes. Denis Maruk. Greatest Washington Capital of all time.