Line Combos: What are the MTL Canadiens' greatest needs to become a Stanley Cup-winning team? by Priority.

[Habs Halifax]

I think it would make more sense to discuss what Suzuki is and what he isn't once his production plateaus.

Looks like he is on the Koivu track to me. Someone else brought up the Koivu narrative and I think it fits. I have Suzuki in the 60-80 range but as a complete 200' type center.

Can Suzuki reach the Bergeron level? He's on track but will he measure up? Bruins won cups with Bergeron/Krejci. Marchand vs Caufield. Do we have a Pasternak? Dach is not the same type of player but I also have Dach in the 60-80 range.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Betting is not a strategy, but another year of evaluation for two players who had career years (on pace in Dach's case) and are both in their early 20s' might be in order before we make definitive conclusions.



It's hard to accurately define needs until you're pretty sure about Suzuki's ceiling.

Even if Suzuki has a great year, we should be hunting for a big center. Would it be so bad if we had two legit number ones splitting time?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Maybe a highly potent winger with tenacity? Would he be available at 5OA?

Yeah that would’ve been interesting.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I get the excitement over having two young talented guys like Suzuki and Dach, but the mistake we keep making is settling for good/very-good when we need great. Want to get sober really quickly? Look at the gap between our forwards and the forward depth on the top teams. Even if the players we currently have reach their peak, we still don't have a single offensive star coming up the ranks.

Caufield looks like a top-10 goal scorer. Suzuki and Dach could be solid 2A and B centers. That's a great start, but we need to build on top of them, not just around them.

Depends what our strategy is. Are we building a top heavy team or a deep top 9 up front. Of course you want 100 pt players but only 11 in the NHL last year. 8 more in the 90's.

I'm content if our top 9 is deep and we have several 20+ goal 60+ pts threats and a top 10 PP. We can continue to search for more offensive pieces but at this point, our faith rides on Suzuki, Dach, Caufield, Slaf and maybe Roy. Hutson, Guhle, Reinbacher, Mailloux, Barron on D

 

[HabsEstrie]

...

Even if Suzuki has a great year, we should be hunting for a big center. Would it be so bad if we had two legit number ones splitting time?

Dach is that guy
Just watch and see
This is his huge breakout season

 

[Ozmodiar]

In terms of PPG he's 77th among forwards if you remove players with 32 games or less. 37th among centers for PPG >32gp

7 of those “centers” played on the wing last season.

 

[Archijerej]

Looks like he is on the Koivu track to me. Someone else brought up the Koivu narrative and I think it fits. I have Suzuki in the 60-80 range but as a complete 200' type center.

Can Suzuki reach the Bergeron level? He's on track but will he measure up? Bruins won cups with Bergeron/Krejci. Marchand vs Caufield. Do we have a Pasternak? Dach is not the same type of player but I also have Dach in the 60-80 range.

I don't want to delve into the Koivu debate, if not for other reason than that my opinion on him differs from the consensus. Enough to say that if anyone thinks you can't win if Koivu is your #1C, he obviously have not watched any Habs playoff games with Saku. The team was never properly contructed. Heck, Koivu's lines were never properly constructed. I encourage people to go and watch what a premiere playmaker like Koivu was capable of when he had a player like Selanne to combine with.

Let's see a full season of Suzuki with a healthy Caulfield and another top 6 player on the other wing. By the way, we could so use Lehkonen on that line.

 

[Archijerej]

Even if Suzuki has a great year, we should be hunting for a big center. Would it be so bad if we had two legit number ones splitting time?

It's always better to be young, rich and beautiful, but there's a finite amount of assets you can spend when building a team. A 1-2a-2b-4 might be more realistic in our case, but who knows.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I love Suzuki, but he's arguably the worst first centre in his division:
Matthews, Bergeron, Point, Barkov, Thompson, Stutzle, Larkin, Suzuki

MacAvoy, Hedman, Seider, Reilly, Dahlin, Chabot, Ekblad

Marner, Pasta, Kooch, Tkachuk, Skinner, Tkachuk, (Raymond)

Apart from Raymond, the D and wingers aren’t near the competition either.

Imagine Kooch or a Tkachuk brother with CC and Suzuki.

We have the ~30th center and ~45th winger … and a 2nd winger isn’t near the top at all. Ideally, we’d have 2 in the top 60 with one of those in the top 30.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't want to delve into the Koivu debate, if not for other reason than that my opinion on him differs from the consensus. Enough to say that if anyone thinks you can't win if Koivu is your #1C, he obviously have not watched any Habs playoff games with Saku. The team was never properly contructed. Heck, Koivu's lines were never properly constructed. I encourage people to go and watch what a premiere playmaker like Koivu was capable of when he had a player like Selanne.

Let's see a full season of Suzuki with a healthy Caulfield and another top 6 player on the other wing. By the way, we could so use Lehkonen on that line.

You can win with Koivu as your number one if you have superstars everywhere.

Maybe Hutson will be incredible or Slaf is a superstar in waiting. But I don’t see any blue chip superstars in our lineup.

The closest thing we have to a predictable star is Caufield. He’ll likely be a 40+ goal scorer and first liner - if he can stay healthy. Everything else is a bit of a question mark.

It’s actually a good group. The foundation is there. But a big scorer would make such a difference.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

MacAvoy, Hedman, Seider, Reilly, Dahlin, Chabot, Ekblad

Marner, Pasta, Kooch, Tkachuk, Skinner, Tkachuk, (Raymond)

Apart from Raymond, the D and wingers aren’t near the competition either.

Imagine Kooch or a Tkachuk brother with CC and Suzuki.

We have the ~30th center and ~45th winger … and a 2nd winger isn’t near the top at all. Ideally, we’d have 2 in the top 60 with one of those in the top 30.

CC’s value is higher due to his goal numbers. 48 goal pace puts him in the top 10 goalscorers in the league. That’s legit first line production. He’s the only guy in our lineup that I’m confident in saying he’ll be a first liner right now.

 

[Archijerej]

You can win with Koivu as your number one if you have superstars everywhere.

When did Koivu have a 1st line player on his wing in Montreal? He played with Kovalev for a while, but they weren't a fit stylistically and we couldn't afford to put all of our eggs into one basket. Anyone else?

When did he have a strong #2C behind him?

 

[Habs Halifax]

When did Koivu have a 1st line player on his wing in Montreal? He played with Kovalev for a while, but they weren't a fit stylistically and we couldn't afford to put all of our eggs into one basket. Anyone else?

When did he have a strong #2C behind him?

Koivu didn't have much talent on wing but two names are Kovalev and Recchi? I think Damphousse was there early in his career but not much after that. From what I can recall by memory anyways.

 

[Habs Halifax]

CC’s value is higher due to his goal numbers. 48 goal pace puts him in the top 10 goalscorers in the league. That’s legit first line production. He’s the only guy in our lineup that I’m confident in saying he’ll be a first liner right now.

Interesting to note that Suzuki had more goals than Caufield in the cup run. 7 goals in 22 games vs 4 in 20. Yeah, Caufield was younger.

Also interesting to note that Suzuki had 16 goals vs Caufields 26... before Caufield got injured. How many goals did Caufield get where Suzuki fed him? Vs how many goals Suzuki got where Caufield fed him?

I think these two bring the best out of each other. It's like trying to figure out who is worth more, Marchand or Pasternak when they were at their best.

I think they have equal value. You put Suzuki on wing with a Suzuki type center and you might have a 40+ goal scoring winger.

 

[cphabs]

Has anyone mentioned “time”? We need to be patient IMO.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

7 of those “centers” played on the wing last season.

Lol as if that changes anything. 30th in PPG for centers is not a true #1C.


Now, what I want to see is what Suzuki will produce once he has a full line with Cole, but especially, whenever he'll gain a strong pairing to support his line, including a bonafide pmd, most probably Hutson.

 

[CHfan1]

Also interesting to note that Suzuki had 16 goals vs Caufields 26... before Caufield got injured. How many goals did Caufield get where Suzuki fed him? Vs how many goals Suzuki got where Caufield fed him?

Having a quick look at the stats:

Suzuki was the primary assist on 10 of Caufield’s goals.

Caufield was the primary assist on 1 of Suzuki’s goals.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Having a quick look at the stats:

Suzuki was the primary assist on 10 of Caufield’s goals.

Caufield was the primary assist on 1 of Suzuki’s goals.

It fits what my gut feeling was.

 

[Rapala]

Having a quick look at the stats:

Suzuki was the primary assist on 10 of Caufield’s goals.

Caufield was the primary assist on 1 of Suzuki’s goals.

Caufield was the primary assist on very few goals period. It's really not his game. When he does make a decent play with the puck the general idea is and should always be to get it back to him in a shooting position.

 

[angusyoung]

I'm going with OZZY,he can fix anything

 

[CHfan1]

Caufield was the primary assist on very few goals period. It's really not his game. When he does make a decent play with the puck the general idea is and should always be to get it back to him in a shooting position.

I agree, I was just looking at what the stats show.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Having a quick look at the stats:

Suzuki was the primary assist on 10 of Caufield’s goals.

Caufield was the primary assist on 1 of Suzuki’s goals.

Yeah, I wouldn't trust those numbers all that much.

I bet you took them on naturalstatstrick? I think there's a discrepancy between what they and the NHL considers the primary assist.

Unless I'm wrong, the NHL has always put 1st assist (primary) on the left and 2nd assist on the right when you look at their scores. I went through a bunch of them and when the primary is obvious, it's always shown on the left.

On November 3rd 2022, the NHL website has Caufield with 2 primaries, so that 1 primary for last season is wrong, according to them. (I stopped my fact checking on the nov 3rd score, will check back later).

The discrepancy lies with his second primary, on Dach's goal. The NHL has him on the left as primary and Suzuki on the right as secondary assist. On the play, Caufield rushed the puck, entered the zone, cut across and passed to Suzuki for a one-timer and Dach scored on the rebound. The NHL considers Caufield as the playmaker on the goal, not Suzuki, but whatever website you took your numbers from believes the opposite.

Besides the interpretation of who the primary belongs to, the play exemplifies how each secondary assist needs to be looked at individually to witness their degree of importance, especially considering the player in question. With Caufield, or Suzuki, a secondary is often of a higher degree of importance than simply sliding the puck along the cycle.

Go to NHL/Scores, put the calendar to Feb 10th 2022 and start looking game-by-game at Caufield and Suzuki's secondaries and you'll often see they're just as important.

 

[CHfan1]

Yeah, I wouldn't trust those numbers all that much.

I bet you took them on naturalstatstrick? I think there's a discrepancy between what they and the NHL considers the primary assist.

Unless I'm wrong, the NHL has always put 1st assist (primary) on the left and 2nd assist on the right when you look at their scores. I went through a bunch of them and when the primary is obvious, it's always shown on the left.

On November 3rd 2022, the NHL website has Caufield with 2 primaries, so that 1 primary for last season is wrong, according to them. (I stopped my fact checking on the nov 3rd score, will check back later).

The discrepancy lies with his second primary, on Dach's goal. The NHL has him on the left as primary and Suzuki on the right as secondary assist. On the play, Caufield rushed the puck, entered the zone, cut across and passed to Suzuki for a one-timer and Dach scored on the rebound. The NHL considers Caufield as the playmaker on the goal, not Suzuki, but whatever website you took your numbers from believes the opposite.

Besides the interpretation of who the primary belongs to, the play exemplifies how each secondary assist needs to be looked at individually to witness their degree of importance, especially considering the player in question. With Caufield, or Suzuki, a secondary is often of a higher degree of importance than simply sliding the puck along the cycle.

Go to NHL/Scores, put the calendar to Feb 10th 2022 and start looking game-by-game at Caufield and Suzuki's secondaries and you'll often see they're just as important.

I went game by game for the 2022-23 season on the NHL website. I also watched Suzuki’s goals for the 2022-23 season, Caufield’s only primary assist was on November 3rd where he chipped the puck to Suzuki. I do see your point on the Dach goal after watching it.

Yes secondary assists can be just as important at times.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

When did Koivu have a 1st line player on his wing in Montreal? He played with Kovalev for a while, but they weren't a fit stylistically and we couldn't afford to put all of our eggs into one basket. Anyone else?

When did he have a strong #2C behind him?

Lots of number ones play on horrible teams and still produce like a number one.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Interesting to note that Suzuki had more goals than Caufield in the cup run. 7 goals in 22 games vs 4 in 20. Yeah, Caufield was younger.

Also interesting to note that Suzuki had 16 goals vs Caufields 26... before Caufield got injured. How many goals did Caufield get where Suzuki fed him? Vs how many goals Suzuki got where Caufield fed him?

I think these two bring the best out of each other. It's like trying to figure out who is worth more, Marchand or Pasternak when they were at their best.

I think they have equal value. You put Suzuki on wing with a Suzuki type center and you might have a 40+ goal scoring winger.

When they were split, CC continued to score. If CC plays with Dach, his goal production won’t change as long as he’s given the same ice times. He’s a natural sniper.