Line Combos: What are the MTL Canadiens' greatest needs to become a Stanley Cup-winning team? by Priority.

[Rapala]

like all those unconverted passes from CC.

The unconverted passes I saw and they were numerous and CC himself flubbed a number of them and they all came off the stick of #14.
I'm still trying to figure out who said Suzuki has nothing to work on? I get it when someone is totally certain about a stance but invention is a way to lose a debate not win one.

It was insane how much our scoring dried up in December. CC was the only guy who could score.

Why are you still on about this?
Monahan went down.
Dach got moved.
The scoring dried up.
No mention that resposibilities suddenly changing dramatically for Nick Suzuki.
But we should all take it as a given that Cole Caufield prooved his superiority during that stretch because he managed to produce..
The Dec/22 stats were as follows CC 9-0-9 vs NS 3-5-8 the period constantly being brought up had CC go 6-0-6 and NS went 1-2-3 in 11 games
This was followed up in Jan, with CC 5-1-6 to NS 1-4-5 So during that entire stretch before CC went down he actually produced a whopping 4pts more than Nick Suzuki over 20 games. Coincidently at the exact time Suzuki had to take on more. I guess we can also extropolate that out to 16 pts over the entire season and it would actually be higher if CC only could play with Dach instead.

Awesome.

 

[Rapala]

what numbers do you want to look at? What is it you think you’re proving by showing shot attempts? That he can’t pass?

1 assist in the twenty games you want us to focus on says yes Passing and Playmaking may not actually be his forte.

 

[Naslundforever]

Where are the options

”Calgary takes out Edmonton” and “Islanders take out Pittsburgh”? They are the only tricks I have learned work over the years to win the cup.

 

[StCaufield]

Someone that can pass now that Drouin is gone

 

[Miller Time]

Tage Thompson finally hit 68 points two seasons ago his fifth in the league after 4 dismal seasons
Larkin's first 4 years produced exactly 213 points to Nick Suzuki's 209
If you are referring to JT Miller he never had more than 56 points in his first 7 seasons.
Finally using the fact that Caufield produced some points in a handful of games when Nick Suzuki didn't isn't one of your brightest takes on this board.
I wonder would we find a handful of games Caufield didn't produce when Suzuki did.

When measuring always use the same ruler.

Zing

 

[Miller Time]

The unconverted passes I saw and they were numerous and CC himself flubbed a number of them and they all came of the stick of #14.
I'm still trying to figure out who said Suzuki has nothing to work on? I get it when someone is totally certain about a stance but invention is a way to lose a debate not win one.

Why are you still on about this?
Monahan went down.
Dach got moved.
The scoring dried up.
No mention that resposibilities suddenly changing dramatically for Nick Suzuki.
But we should all take it as a given that Cole Caufield prooved his superiority during that stretch because he managed to produce..
The Dec/22 stats were as follows CC 9-0-9 vs NS 3-5-8 the period constantly being brought up had CC go 6-0-6 and NS went 1-2-3 in 11 games
This was followed up in Jan, with CC 5-1-6 to NS 1-4-5 So during that entire stretch before CC went down he actually produced a whopping 4pts more than Nick Suzuki over 20 games. Coincidently at the exact time Suzuki had to take on more. I guess we can also extropolate that out to 16 pts over the entire season and it would actually be higher if CC only could play with Dach instead.

Awesome.

Stop. Enough. LG may be completely out to lunch with this awful take but you don't need to keep piling on. Take pity will ya, poor guy just got lost in a bad take & can't find his way out.

We've got 2 fantastic young forwards who have progressed better than any prospects we've had since Koivu, and hopefully a few more to follow in short order.

Future is Bright

 

[Rapala]

Stop. Enough. LG may be completely out to lunch with this awful take but you don't need to keep piling on. Take pity will ya, poor guy just got lost in a bad take & can't find his way out.

We've got 2 fantastic young forwards who have progressed better than any prospects we've had since Koivu, and hopefully a few more to follow in short order.

Future is Bright

I agree. I was actually going about my business trying to determine why people seem so sure Suzuki isn't a possible #1 C in this league. Our good friend LG brought up his favorite topic I couldn't help myself my bad. I'll refrain from responding even though LG will always try to get the last word in.

 

[bobholly39]

Voted goalie, offensive QB (essentialy a solid #1D, offensive or not) and #1C in that order.

I do believe Suzuki may have another gear and could fill the #1C role, but I'm 50/50. This year will be crucial for him. I'd like to see him be above ppg this year. I don't think he'll ever be a top 5 C in the league, but top ~15? I think that's doable.

Goalie - biggest question mark. I think some of that is my own fault due to biases. I'm so used to Habs relying on insane goalie performances that I've forgotten how to win without it. We went from Roy, to Theodore's insane hart run, to Halak in 2010, to Price's miracles for the past 10+ years. I literally can't fathom Habs winning without it, even though other teams have success with "average" goalies consistently.

If you have the whole team do really well this year and somehow be in a playoff spot, and then you give them a returning, motivated, healthy Carey Price in February to enter playoffs with momentum? I legitimately can see this team as is make a run at the cup, off another miarculous Price run.

Have the exact same thing as above happen and Habs somehow find a way to make playoffs as WC2 but with Montambault instead of Price....well we're out in round 1, in 4 or 5 games tops. The elite goalie is such a difference maker.

In reality, since Price isn't likely to come back - I have no idea how this team gets back to a cup. We have a lot of good young players and prospects - we'll have to see how they turn out over next ~2-3 years.

 

[ML16]

Hum. If we look at each position’s top-2 candidates within the Habs’ organization:

1) #1 Center : Suzuki? ; Dach?
2) Goal Scorer : Caufield ; Newkook?
3) Power Forward : Slafkovski? ; Anderson?
4) Offensive QB : Hutson? ; Mailloux?
5) RD : Reinbacher? ; Barron/Mailloux?
6)#1 Goalie : Montembault? ; Fowler?

Needless to say there’s « ? » at basically every targeted position, besides maybe goalscoring with Caufield.

But there’s also the possibility that some of the above-mentioned candidates rise to the occasion; especially when it comes to the D prospects.

In any event, considering the Habs have the deepest NHL-projected prospect pool - with over 30 candidates at the moment - « quantity for quality » trades aiming to bolster the position not adequately filled from within should become the Habs’ modus operandi for the next couple of years.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Someone that can pass now that Drouin is gone

Drouin couldn't pass either.

 

[Tabarouette]

Someone that can pass now that Drouin is gone

did you mistakenly combine 2 sentences that don't go together, this makes no sense

 

[Tabarouette]

The votes are really low on both defensive options and especially goal scorer and that's really surprising to me, but also not really, we're all habs-pilled to some level and are a little blind to the direction the sport is heading towards

we've been goal starved for decades now and even more so now, I like Caufield as much as the next guy but we'll see how it goes after his surgery, and we can't just stop at one Caufield that shit won't work

The defense problem is all based on my distrust of the canadiens tho, we have a lot of promising prospects but I just assume they're all going to be terrible at this point and we need something better

the goalie problem is heh, idk, we need a good one but that's also not where the league is at anymore if we're thinking true established #1 for 10+ years

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Why are you still on about this?

On about what?

This thread is about our needs. And right now I’d say it’s scoring.

Monahan went down.
Dach got moved.
The scoring dried up.

f***ing Monahan goes down so that explains the wheels coming off? Really?

If we’re dependent on Sean f***ing Monahan then we’ve got serious problems.

No mention that resposibilities suddenly changing dramatically for Nick Suzuki.
But we should all take it as a given that Cole Caufield prooved his superiority during that stretch because he managed to produce..
The Dec/22 stats were as follows CC 9-0-9 vs NS 3-5-8 the period constantly being brought up had CC go 6-0-6 and NS went 1-2-3 in 11 games
This was followed up in Jan, with CC 5-1-6 to NS 1-4-5 So during that entire stretch before CC went down he actually produced a whopping 4pts more than Nick Suzuki over 20 games.

Stop being disingenuous. Caufield scored at a 48 goal pace from Dec until he was injured. YES he continued to produce despite his team going in the shitter. Suzuki disappeared. Caufield got a single assist in that stretch and it wasn’t for lack of skill. The rest of the team cratered and it’s a big problem. One assist in two months and he STILL outpoints Suzuki? That’s not good.

Coincidently at the exact time Suzuki had to take on more. I guess we can also extropolate that out to 16 pts over the entire season and it would actually be higher if CC only could play with Dach instead.

Awesome.

What we have seen from Suzuki is streaky scoring within seasons. When he’s on he’s a champ. First two months he paced for 42 goals and 94 points. THAT is first line production. The rest of the way he’s a 55 point player and his goal scoring dries up.

So yeah I’m “on about that” because we don’t have a proven number one. As of now it remains a need. Stop trying to pretend like this guy’s a bonafied number one. He isn’t. Not yet anyway. Maybe he proves it this year but until he does , it’s an issue.

We currently have ONE legit first liner. That’s it. And that’s why I’d say the scoring needs to be addressed more than anything else right now. Until we can score consistently we’re going nowhere. And we shouldn’t count on guys like Monahan for anything. If they produce it’s a bonus.

1 assist in the twenty games you want us to focus on says yes Passing and Playmaking may not actually be his forte.

His assists were fine until our club cratered. You can make all the passes you want but if your team can’t score…

Again, he remained productive even when the rest of the club died. His assist totals falling are a reflection of our anemic offense not his skills.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Stop. Enough. LG may be completely out to lunch with this awful take but you don't need to keep piling on.

Bring it on anytime bud.

Take pity will ya, poor guy just got lost in a bad take & can't find his way out.

We've got 2 fantastic young forwards who have progressed better than any prospects we've had since Koivu, and hopefully a few more to follow in short order.

Future is Bright

We have some young talent but it’s unproven. One blue chip first liner and others who may get there.

Not sure how you can be excited about our scoring based on what we have now.

 

[schwang26]

Larkin, Miller, Thompson… tons of guys produced on bad teams. And many have done it before.

And Nick had CC on his wing - not a scrub.

There’s no doubt it’s a tough assignment. And no doubt he’d get more points on a better team. But I’d argue that on a better team he’d also likely have been a number two center.

Those other teams also didn't sett records for man games lost for 2 years. I agree there's an argument to be made that he might end up a second line C on a better team, but the criticism was a little harsh. Everyone, including Caufield, was hurt for lengthy periods. The situations with guys like Thompson and Larkin aren't comparable really. Both teams finished ahead of Montreal, had better power plays and had pretty good offensive D to help generate offence. Montreal did not.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Those other teams also didn't sett records for man games lost for 2 years. I agree there's an argument to be made that he might end up a second line C on a better team, but the criticism was a little harsh. Everyone, including Caufield, was hurt for lengthy periods. The situations with guys like Thompson and Larkin aren't comparable really. Both teams finished ahead of Montreal, had better power plays and had pretty good offensive D to help generate offence. Montreal did not.

To be clear, I like Suzuki. I’m not saying he can never be a number one. He’s shown in stretches that the talent is there. But he’s unproven and I don’t think we should count on him to be the guy to carry the day on offense.

I saw the same thing in fans who talked like Koivu was a number one - if those types of players are your best then you’d better have a great D and goaltending.

Personally, I think scoring is where we should focus out efforts. The D looks good and Hutson will hopefully help. But I think we need better forwards.

This doesn’t mean I think we should get rid of Suzuki or that I think he sucks. Hopefully he improves and finds the consistency. If he does, then that need is less acute. But I’d still like to see more weapons on the front end.

 

[StCaufield]

Drouin couldn't pass either.

Actually I was kidding partially but he was the best passers if not one of the best on the team. Not saying he should have stayed here because the team can’t pass at all so him being one of their best isn’t saying much

did you mistakenly combine 2 sentences that don't go together, this makes no sense

Nobody can pass on Montreal up front. Yes that doesn’t make any sense lol

 

[Habs Halifax]

To be clear, I like Suzuki. I’m not saying he can never be a number one. He’s shown in stretches that the talent is there. But he’s unproven and I don’t think we should count on him to be the guy to carry the day on offense.

I saw the same thing in fans who talked like Koivu was a number one - if those types of players are your best then you’d better have a great D and goaltending.

Personally, I think scoring is where we should focus out efforts. The D looks good and Hutson will hopefully help. But I think we need better forwards.

This doesn’t mean I think we should get rid of Suzuki or that I think he sucks. Hopefully he improves and finds the consistency. If he does, then that need is less acute. But I’d still like to see more weapons on the front end.

Agreed. Adding another offensive center never hurts. Kings added Dubois when they already had Danault/Kopitar/Byfield. We have Dach who may be that guy but imagine adding a legit center better than both of them and then Dach is on RW? That pushes other wingers like RHP down and all of a sudden, you have a stacked top 9.

If we don't add any top end pieces... our offensive faith rides on Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slaf, Roy. Guys like Newhook, RHP, Farrell, Heineman, Beck, etc are support players IMO.

#1 Goalie is flawed. Are we voting on just a starter or a top 10 goalie who can remain at that level for 5+ years. There are way more top centers in the game vs the Price, Vasi, Helle types. Jake O is on the cusp.

 

[InglewoodJack]

We “just” need a ~90 point forward and a very capable goaltender. I know goalies aren’t as high priority as they used to be, but I can’t wrap my head around the Habs winning a cup without a HOF-quality goalie. I think the rest can be filled out with young guys developing, a few savvy trades, and having either Dach or Suzuki take an extra step.

 

[schwang26]

Agreed. Adding another offensive center never hurts. Kings added Dubois when they already had Danault/Kopitar/Byfield. We have Dach who may be that guy but imagine adding a legit center better than both of them and then Dach is on RW? That pushes other wingers like RHP down and all of a sudden, you have a stacked top 9.

If we don't add any top end pieces... our offensive faith rides on Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slaf, Roy. Guys like Newhook, RHP, Farrell, Heineman, Beck, etc are support players IMO.

#1 Goalie is flawed. Are we voting on just a starter or a top 10 goalie who can remain at that level for 5+ years. There are way more top centers in the game vs the Price, Vasi, Helle types. Jake O is on the cusp.

When you say top end pieces, are you talking forwards? Because an offensive, pp quarterback is just as important. I think that would be more of a need than adding offence up front. I mean, you can always look to add better forwards, but the need lies in a number 1 D, or at least a pp quarterback.

 

[Miller Time]

Bring it on anytime bud.

We have some young talent but it’s unproven. One blue chip first liner and others who may get there.

Not sure how you can be excited about our scoring based on what we have now.

We've done the dance, as @Rapala very dilligently articulated, your take doesn't stand up to very easily verifiable facts.

It's fine to have favorite players, or project future success... Power to you. But when you try to present emotional/subjective takes as being based on objective fact, gotta be able to back it up. In this case, the take has already been shown to be purely subjective... Why you remain so attached to it as anything more than opinion is


I'm excited about the future. Purely opinion and certainly subjective in nature to project that our current group of youth & prospects are well set up to give us a quality of offensive production we haven't seen in a long time.

Not sure how one so bullish on Caufield being a superstar can not be excited about the future...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We've done the dance, as @Rapala very dilligently articulated, your take doesn't stand up to very easily verifiable facts.

Sorry but no. The numbers don’t support you.

These kinds of arguments remind me of back in the day when Koivu was on the squad. People insisted he was so much better than he was. Suzuki is a good young player but he’s so far maxed out at 66 points. Those aren’t number one numbers. And while I agree that it’s a harder assignment, you can’t say it’s only because of teammate injuries because he dropped off well before that while his winger kept on scoring.

It's fine to have favorite players, or project future success... Power to you. But when you try to present emotional/subjective takes as being based on objective fact, gotta be able to back it up. In this case, the take has already been shown to be purely subjective... Why you remain so attached to it as anything more than opinion is

??????

Were you sitting in front of a mirror when you wrote this?

I'm excited about the future. Purely opinion and certainly subjective in nature to project that our current group of youth & prospects are well set up to give us a quality of offensive production we haven't seen in a long time.

Not sure how one so bullish on Caufield being a superstar can not be excited about the future...

60+ points does not equal number one center. Not unless he’s winning Selke trophies to go with it. He needs more consistency throughout the year. Thre talent is there and he shows it in spurts. He needs to do it every night.

Does that mean he’ll never be a number one? No. But until he proves it…

 

[nhlfan9191]

Sorry but no. The numbers don’t support you.

These kinds of arguments remind me of back in the day when Koivu was on the squad. People insisted he was so much better than he was. Suzuki is a good young player but he’s so far maxed out at 66 points. Those aren’t number one numbers. And while I agree that it’s a harder assignment, you can’t say it’s only because of teammate injuries because he dropped off well before that while his winger kept on scoring.

??????

Were you sitting in front of a mirror when you wrote this?

60+ points does not equal number one center. Not unless he’s winning Selke trophies to go with it. He needs more consistency throughout the year. Thre talent is there and he shows it in spurts. He needs to do it every night.

Does that mean he’ll never be a number one? No. But until he proves it…

Suzuki had that really bad slump mid season and Caufield went down with that injury, the revolving door of players was not pretty for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he flirts with or get to be PPG as the team gets better.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Suzuki had that really bad slump mid season and Caufield went down with that injury, the revolving door of players was not pretty for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he flirts with or get to be PPG as the team gets better.

And maybe he will. He’s young, still got time to improve. But we’re depending a lot on him. I just don’t think anyone shows up scared to face our offense.

Many talented youngsters. No blue chip player that’s going to lead the way though. One guy who will likely score 40+ but nobody else who we can say is a legit first line player.

Still think we need at least one big scorer for us to have a real shot at a cup.

 

[nhlfan9191]

And maybe he will. He’s young, still got time to improve. But we’re depending a lot on him. I just don’t think anyone shows up scared to face our offense.

Many talented youngsters. No blue chip player that’s going to lead the way though. One guy who will likely score 40+ but nobody else who we can say is a legit first line player.

Still think we need at least one big scorer for us to have a real shot at a cup.

I agree nobody fears our offence right now. If you shut down Caufield and Suzuki, we’re pretty much done. We’ve been lacking the type of prospect you mentioned for 30 years. Maybe I’m just really high on Suzuki, but that SCF run was really impressive for me. Even if Danault was used for the tougher match ups, he showed at just 21 that he can be the type of centre that you win with. He’s got a really nice balance of offence and defence.