What are the Flames missing?

[The Nuge]

I understand the offense is slumping right now, but that can’t last forever. Imo, the problem is still team defense. The defense is built around offensive dmen, and the forwards for the most part aren’t great defensively. Gio can’t cover for the whole team 60 minutes a game. They tried to address it with guys like Brouwer, Hamonic, Stone, Lazar, etc, but they haven’t performed up to expectations. It might happened naturally, where people turn it around, but they also might need to have a shakeup trade

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Because people are able to have different opinions and reasons for liking or disliking different players and can act different ways at different times.

Or maybe my opinion of players has nothing to do with my opinion of Johnny Gaudreau? I'm high on guys like Ferland, Jankowski, Backlund, Tkachuk and Bennett. I'm not that high on Monahan, and I'm quite down on guys like Chiasson, Brouwer, and Versteeg. None of that has anything to do with Gaudreau.

It's quite comical for you to selectively manufacture reasons why I like/dislike certain players to make it suit your Monahan fanboy agenda.

 

[Canada Drai]

A new rink.

 

[John Matthews]

You say it as a joke, but the players with the most heart on the team are two kids and an NHL fringe player (Bennett, Tkachuk & Hathaway). When Calgary's losing, or losing badly those three are the only ones that seem disgusted about it. That and Smith, but there's only so much a goalie can do.

Those two are the ones that are the one ice leaders with how they play, heart and soul guys. The Flames are missing an abundance of it, but I fully expect Tkachuk to a become a leader in the locker room and help other plays grow their intangibles.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

DO they though?

No one calls Johansen elite, or a "TRUE" #1C. He may be a #1 C but to say he's legit is something else.

And all playoffs long that's what people said would be Nashville's demise, up the middle. Come cup final comparing centers did not look very good with the Preds.

They even went out to get Turris.

How many people would call Johansen a top 15 centre? He's really good but he's not. Same with Monahan. There's so many good centre's.

Crosby
McDavid
Stamkos
Malkin
Matthews
Scheifle
Kopitar
Getzlaf
Mackinnon
Seguin
Eichel
Giroux
Bergeron
Barkov
Toews
Pavelski
Schenn/Stastny




That's 20 right there off the top of my head and there's arguably more. (That's not even taking into account some 2C's that could be argued as better like Horvat, ROR, Trochek, Draisaitl, Turris, Kadri, etc. )

However I think Monahan and Johansen are both great.

Disingenuous argument as Johansen missed the entire finals due to injury.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

It's weird isn't it?

Every season over the last 2 or 3 years there are debates regarding whether the Flames have a top 5 (or the best) d core in the league, and every year they are severely underwhelming according to those standards.

This year is a bit different as the trending towards youth and speed seems to be accelerating even more in this league.
Ergo, it makes some sense that Hamonic and Stone are not playing as effectively as we are used to.

Brodie is mystifying to me. Even as a Canucks fan he was one of my top 3 favorite D since like 2014, and I have always kept a special eye on him.
This year, he's getting beaten constantly. I don't get it. Flames fans? What is he doing differently?

Last year it was handwaved away because he was babysitting Derek Engelland, but this season with Hamonic was supposed to unlock him again.But it hasn't happened.

 

[Johnnybegood13]

Brodie is mystifying to me. Even as a Canucks fan he was one of my top 3 favorite D since like 2014, and I have always kept a special eye on him.
This year, he's getting beaten constantly. I don't get it. Flames fans? What is he doing differently?

Your former assistant coach has him playing the wrong side of the ice, GG is a big problem with the Flames.

 

[crazyfisherman]

This is the 1st game since pretty much GG got here that we saw defense activativly jump in the rush, hope its the start of something

 

[aufheben]

DO they though?

No one calls Johansen elite, or a "TRUE" #1C. He may be a #1 C but to say he's legit is something else.

And all playoffs long that's what people said would be Nashville's demise, up the middle. Come cup final comparing centers did not look very good with the Preds.

Who is comparable to Crosby-Malkin?

 

[DJJones]

Why are people talking about our defense? Our defense is fantastic.

Our special teams suck and we can't score a f***ing goal

 

[redfire11]

GG and Cammeron need to be gone by all star break and if not then BT needs to be gone when we don't make the playoffs.

I think the Flames have the basics of a good team but the Coach has them playing against their strengths.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Offence

In those 11 games they only gave up 3 or more regulation goals 3 times (PHI,SJ,MTL), it's really been the offence that's been hampering us the past couple of weeks.

Their current streak is 18 consecutive games with 3 goals or less allowed. It's nice to be getting some offense at the moment to capitalize on that.

 

[CraigsList]

What do the Flames need? Consistency.

And they’re doing just that.

 

[Rubi]

A power play that can score on a consistent basis.

 

[Rubi]

Sean Monahan has been playing like absolute trash for over a month. He's too inconsistent to be a first line player and has never produced like one without Johnny Gaudreau.

Boy you sure have an unreasonable hate on for Mony. Did he do something to your daughter?
Monahan has been a clutch scorer on passes from JG. Almost like money in the bank most nights.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I understand the offense is slumping right now, but that can’t last forever. Imo, the problem is still team defense. The defense is built around offensive dmen, and the forwards for the most part aren’t great defensively. Gio can’t cover for the whole team 60 minutes a game. They tried to address it with guys like Brouwer, Hamonic, Stone, Lazar, etc, but they haven’t performed up to expectations. It might happened naturally, where people turn it around, but they also might need to have a shakeup trade

Flames have teh longest record in the league allowing 3 or less goals per game.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Boy you sure have an unreasonable hate on for Mony. Did he do something to your daughter?
Monahan has been a clutch scorer on passes from JG. Almost like money in the bank most nights.

-Wins faceoffs
-Scores clutch goals
-Center’s arguably the NHL’s best line
-Vastly improved defensive game
-Lights out at 3-3/shootout/PP
-Finally has a winger other then Johnny or Hudler that can score
-Nearly PPG in a defensive system

Meh

To answer the thread: 3rd line RW

 

[King In The North]

It'll be funny to say this in the midst of a 7-game winning streak, but consistency.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Boy you sure have an unreasonable hate on for Mony. Did he do something to your daughter?
Monahan has been a clutch scorer on passes from JG. Almost like money in the bank most nights.

I call it as I see it. He's been much better as of late but he was pretty much incapable of catching a pass for about a month. Not sure if he was injured or what, but he was painfully bad. Hopefully he can keep up his level of play, he's been wildly inconsistent.

 

[tmurfin]

I call it as I see it. He's been much better as of late but he was pretty much incapable of catching a pass for about a month. Not sure if he was injured or what, but he was painfully bad. Hopefully he can keep up his level of play, he's been wildly inconsistent.

I love how you quiet down when he's playing good, but the second that WHOLE LINE is struggling, you jump on Mony, white on rice.

Guadreau was pretty bad during that slump as well, none of them could get any momentum going, and that brings up the answer to this thread, consistency. Gully has failed to keep this team on an even keel, world beaters one night, bottom feeders the next.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I love how you quiet down when he's playing good, but the second that WHOLE LINE is struggling, you jump on Mony, white on rice.

Guadreau was pretty bad during that slump as well, none of them could get any momentum going, and that brings up the answer to this thread, consistency. Gully has failed to keep this team on an even keel, world beaters one night, bottom feeders the next.

I've mentioned on multiple occasions how well he's played when he's played well. But it's expected when he's paid 6.4M.

When he's on he's worth that contract. When he's off he's brutal.

 

[Big Erned Nevergivn]

- 23 years old
- played on the top line since the start of his second season
- highest scoring player from his draft class
- scores 20+ goals in every season he's played in the NHL, starting at age 18. (Has scored close to 30 most years). Definition of consistency.
- currently 26th in NHL in points (12th for centers)
- currently 9th in NHL in goals (5th for centers)
- Wins >50% of face-offs (has trended positively every year)
- Positive in all possession metrics (trending upwards since start of career)
- Tied for lead in flames playoff scoring over last 2 appearances (tied with Gaudreau 15gp - 11pts)
- Alternate Captain for playoff bound team

Whiskey exclaims Monahan is not a first line player in NHL - guy is nuts.

IMO - passes the eye test as well.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Whiskey exclaims Monahan is not a first line player in NHL - guy is nuts.

IMO - passes the eye test as well.

That's all great, but his production is heavily dependent on Gaudreau. He's yet to prove he can drive a line, his offensive game is too one dimensional, and his overall play is far too inconsistent to be considered a true top line C IMO. His 2 way game has come a long way but is still far from elite.

He's proven he can play as a 1C when carried by an elite winger. Without Gaudreau I see him as a ~25g ~50p goal scoring 2C, but he doesn't do much to make the players around him better. He knows where to go to score goals and has a nice release from the slot, but outside of that his offensive skills are average to poor. He's a poor puck carrier, his vision when stationary is good but at speed it's poor, he's got soft hands but isn't a threat to beat anyone 1v1, and his outside shot is meh.

Again, that's my take. I just call it as I see it. I think he's shown some really good progression in a lot of the defensive aspects of the game, and his skating has come along, but his play still leaves much to be desired.

 

[Big Erned Nevergivn]

Again, that's my take. I just call it as I see it. I think he's shown some really good progression in a lot of the defensive aspects of the game, and his skating has come along, but his play still leaves much to be desired.

Fair take, although I disagree with a lot of it. I believe Monahan has a lot to do with Gaudreau's success as well. They compliment each other well:

Gaudreau is elite passer - Monahan elite wrist-shot & release
Gaudreau is great puck carrier - Monahan has an unbelievable knack for getting open in the slot
Gaudreau is a great skater - Monahan is responsible defensively and can win board battles

Monahan does things Gaudreau can't and vice versa. To state that Monahan is carried by Gaudreau seems very unfair to me. Likewise to say "Monahan can't carry a line" or "be the puck carrier" seems unfair too. He has played with Gaudreau (who is one of the best puck carriers in the league) almost exclusively for the last 3 years, he hasn't had to prove that he can do it because the line works to its strengths. Why have Monahan carry the puck when he plays with one of the very best in the game? Also to state Monahan isn't good defensively doesn't really align with the underlying stats or the fact that he centers one of the best lines in hockey, who regularly faces the best competition on the other team, and more often then not comes out ahead... unless you think Gaudreau is also the defensive dynamo lifting that line.

Both Gaudreau and Monahan are great players IMO and I prefer Gaudreau myself. But you seem to have this bias against Monahan that others don't see. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... and that's just one guy's opinion on another guy's opinion!

 

[Duffalufagus]

lol at the Monahan hate. Dude is easily a #1 centre.