Thank you for this pos, I've been trying to tell this to people for years. 95% of the time when people claim today's players are so much better, they're unknowingly speaking about the equipment.Have you ever worn the leg pads that they used? Aside from being far too heavy for a goalie to be constantly moving up and down, there was also zero padding on the interior of the leg to accommodate a butterfly move, and the pads didn't rotate forward the way they do now. They were on their feet because they had to be.
This is Patrick Roy performing a "butterfly" move circa 1984, using standard pads of that time. Notice that he's sitting directly on his legs, with his knees down into the body of the pads.
This is Patrick Roy performing an actual butterfly about a decade later. Notice how differently his legs are positioned, since the pads are designed to protect his knees in the butterfly stance. You can actually see the new "landing gear" padding slightly below and to the left of the second O in KOHO.
And then another decade later. See how the pads have now been molded specifically on the assumption that goalies will only use the butterfly. Thigh risers close the five-hole, the toes are molded to kick the puck out from a butterfly position, the pads are profiled to create a perfectly straight seal along the ice, and they're hinged to rotate forward and face the shooter on their own. And check out those shoulder pads compared to the ones that were designed for stand-up goaltending... the butterfly-specific leg pads enabled butterfly-specific shoulder pads, and next thing you know he's blocking the whole net from a down position!
It wasn't about goalies suddenly figuring out how to tend goal, it was about a technological change that opened up a different playbook. What was the change? The development of plastic composites which replaced the old leathery pads. The light new pads allowed goalies to move differently, which introduced the idea of dropping on every shot. That led to "landing gear", which made the butterfly possible. That led to the total re-envisioning of the size and shape of every piece of gear on their body with the butterfly in mind, which locked the next generation into playing a butterfly style exclusively.
Both Roy and Hasek were viewed throughout the late 90s early 00s as superior goalies.
Which brings up “Ray Bourque was along for the ride when he won the Cup”. He was still playing 30 minutes a night and finished 3rd in Norris voting.
I always thought Keith could have easily been MVP of all three runs. definitely the Team itself was well put together, but Keith did stand out for sure.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone suggesting his 3 years in Vancouver cancels out the rest of his achievements. Let's not forget he spent another 4 years sucking back in New York after his time as a Canuck. Rather as Canucks fans having had to endure those 3 years we just want to reserve the right to hate him while the rest of the NHL fanbases love and/or respect him.
Saying Brodeur was anything but great is just unadulterated folly.
The Avs were blessed with a few stars, their 2 centers and Roy and had a well constructed team as well.
Agreed. I have him below Hasek and Roy, but still a great goaltender.
It's kinda like saying Clapton and Page aren't as good as Hendrix
If you factor in what his average ES goals would be in a season for the two seasons he got screwed over by Kreuger he ends up second in ES goals.
As a Hawks fans, I 100% agree. A related Hawks related revisionist history - people send to forget that the 2015 team wasn't nearly as deep as 2010/13 and that Keith/Seabrook/Hjalmarsson/Oduya were essentially all playing half the game because the Hawks could not trust the 3rd pair (Timonen was toast by that point) at all.
I know right, but I've seen so many people say he's closer to Tim Thomas than Roy and Hasek.
Yeah, I probably said it a few times because I hated how much he was talked about at the time...
Did he though? I've always had this problem with people looking at Messier as having held on too long and sucking at the end of his career....he really didn't suck, he was putting up pretty good numbers, especially for a guy of his age. If Ovechkin plays at 45 years old and he scores 22 goals that year, are people going to say he sucks? Some will because they remember him as a 50 goal scorer, so 22 goals sucks....even though that's still better than the average player.
