What are examples of historical revisionism that you hate the most?

[MakoSlade]

When Ranger fans claim Kravtsov looked awful in his first NHL stint. If you go back and read the GDT’s he had the most first star votes of any player on the entire team through those 20 games, nearly every game he was top 3 in votes for our 3 stars. The GDT’s were full of posts saying how he was the best rookie they’ve ever seen play for the Rangers, how even Kovalev had his warts but Kravtsov is already a complete player and miles ahead of what Kovalev was, how they wish Kakko & Lafreniere looked like this.

I must have missed that part, but I do recall Rangers fans were pissed big time when Lindy Ruff challenged his first goal and it was overturned for an offside.

 

[Mobiandi]

I won’t hate it per se, but I foresee a lot of re-writing of Bergeron’s career which will put down his contemporaries in guys like Getzlaf and Kopitar

 

[GreatGonzo]

Kane continued his elite scoring until 2021-22 and it didn't matter, the Hawks weren't a good team.

Toews, Hossa and Keith were the driving forces behind that team. When Hossa retired and Toews/Keith declined it was over. If anyone was a passenger it was Kane.

Hossa retired and they became a bottom 10 team one year after being the top seed in the West. It wasn't just that they lost Panarin, it was the combination of everything

Kane was absolutely a driving force behind the Hawks winning three cups. This is just a ridiculous take. He was the difference maker in the Philly series in 2010. He led them in scoring in 2013 and 2015. His offense was a big difference maker in many series through out those years.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I don't think its a common revision of his career, but i was listening to Ryan Lambert earlier this summer (during HOF time) basically compare Patrik Elias to Shane Doan in terms of their careers. I thought that was a gross misunderstanding of Patrik Elias as a player. If that is a common thought with regards to who he was a as a player, I do feel like that is some bad revisionist history

You’d have Elias much higher, right? To me that’s a pretty good split, with Elias in and Doan out.

I like Puck Soup, but they said Tage sucked and never corrected that, so.. rewriting, and such.

 

[RandV]

It’s not that they were terrible athletes it’s that goaltending systems were terrible, they stayed on their feet for almost every shot.

You don't see it as much anymore but people took this the other direction as well saying modern goalies were only good at stopping pucks because they are taller with bigger equipment and just let the puck hit them.

Regardless of era to be a goalie in the NHL you have to be a whole lot better than a lot of other guys. It's a position that has probably changed more so than in any other sports so maybe a guy from yesterday might not be as good today using the same technique & equipment, and vice versa. Though I'm not a goalie but I'd imagine a shared skill that they're going to have in any era to set them apart is reading and anticipating the play.

 

[FrankSidebottom]

I won’t hate it per se, but I foresee a lot of re-writing of Bergeron’s career which will put down his contemporaries in guys like Getzlaf and Kopitar

True, I’m afraid Kopitar may hurt more as a player from both the non-hockey country and the non-spotlight western state

 

[tarheelhockey]

It’s not that they were terrible athletes it’s that goaltending systems were terrible, they stayed on their feet for almost every shot.

Have you ever worn the leg pads that they used? Aside from being far too heavy for a goalie to be constantly moving up and down, there was also zero padding on the interior of the leg to accommodate a butterfly move, and the pads didn't rotate forward the way they do now. They were on their feet because they had to be.

This is Patrick Roy performing a "butterfly" move circa 1984, using standard pads of that time. Notice that he's sitting directly on his legs, with his knees down into the body of the pads.

This is Patrick Roy performing an actual butterfly about a decade later. Notice how differently his legs are positioned, since the pads are designed to protect his knees in the butterfly stance. You can actually see the new "landing gear" padding slightly below and to the left of the second O in KOHO.

And then another decade later. See how the pads have now been molded specifically on the assumption that goalies will only use the butterfly. Thigh risers close the five-hole, the toes are molded to kick the puck out from a butterfly position, the pads are profiled to create a perfectly straight seal along the ice, and they're hinged to rotate forward and face the shooter on their own. And check out those shoulder pads compared to the ones that were designed for stand-up goaltending... the butterfly-specific leg pads enabled butterfly-specific shoulder pads, and next thing you know he's blocking the whole net from a down position!

It wasn't about goalies suddenly figuring out how to tend goal, it was about a technological change that opened up a different playbook. What was the change? The development of plastic composites which replaced the old leathery pads. The light new pads allowed goalies to move differently, which introduced the idea of dropping on every shot. That led to "landing gear", which made the butterfly possible. That led to the total re-envisioning of the size and shape of every piece of gear on their body with the butterfly in mind, which locked the next generation into playing a butterfly style exclusively.

 

[Three On Zero]

I won’t hate it per se, but I foresee a lot of re-writing of Bergeron’s career which will put down his contemporaries in guys like Getzlaf and Kopitar

Kopitar isn’t that far off from Bergeron, Getzlaf on the other hand….

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Mats Sundin being lionized as elite and generational.

The day he tossed his own broken jagged wood stick dangerously into the crowd in Toronto he became generational to me.

 

[Grinner]

The marketing reverence of the original 6

 

[jigglysquishy]

The marketing reverence of the original 6

I don't know if it's so much reverence, as recognition they are the top 5 most valuable NHL franchises (Red Wings being 11th).

NY, Chicago, Boston, LA are the four most valuable American franchises.

In the NBA, they are 7 of the 8 most valuable franchises (Golden State being the exception).

In the MLB, they are 6 of the 7 most valuable franchises (San Francisco being the exception).

In the NFL, they are 5 of the 7 most valuable franchises (Washington and Dallas being the exceptions).

Across the North American sports landscape, the oldest teams and wealthiest teams are overwhelmingly concentrated in LA, NY, Chicago, and Boston.

Of course the media is going to push the biggest and wealthiest markets.

 

[Hockeyholic]

All of those other guys have statues there too, and Sundin is the franchise leader in goals and points, so it is very much deserved.

I didn't know the others had statues. Thought it was just Sundin.

Yikes....

Montreal: A statue of Maurice Richard (Among others)

Leafs: Statue of legend Wendel Clark (Among others)

 

[Grinner]

I don't know if it's so much reverence, as recognition they are the top 5 most valuable NHL franchises (Red Wings being 11th).

NY, Chicago, Boston, LA are the four most valuable American franchises.

In the NBA, they are 7 of the 8 most valuable franchises (Golden State being the exception).

In the MLB, they are 6 of the 7 most valuable franchises (San Francisco being the exception).

In the NFL, they are 5 of the 7 most valuable franchises (Washington and Dallas being the exceptions).

Across the North American sports landscape, the oldest teams and wealthiest teams are overwhelmingly concentrated in LA, NY, Chicago, and Boston.

Of course the media is going to push the biggest and wealthiest markets.

They're not selling as market size. Or highest TV revenue cities
Nope they make it mythical. It's a very fancy wrapper for a league on life support. Only need to scratch thr surface to realize it was more like 3 teams. The Habs,Leafs and the Red Wings and 3 teams thscould have all been called the Washington Generals

 

[belfour30]

Kane was absolutely a driving force behind the Hawks winning three cups. This is just a ridiculous take. He was the difference maker in the Philly series in 2010. He led them in scoring in 2013 and 2015. His offense was a big difference maker in many series through out those years.

He was, but as we saw when the other 3 guys declined and Kane was still elite, it didn't matter.

I don't think that any of them were passengers really. They all contributed greatly.

 

[SladeWilson23]

People constantly say Bordeur wasn't that good, not even top 10 goalies. He was just carried by having great players like Stevens and Niedermayer there to shut everyone down.

Ironically, I also see a lot of people saying Niedermayer/Stevens weren't that good, just a product of having Brodeur for most of their careers.

In reality, they were the perfect combination of elite defending and goaltending.

Another one that always bothers me as a Devil fan is people saying Stevens was a cheap shot artist or a dirty player, when he in fact played by the rules of the day and wasn't seen as anywhere near dirty at the time.

Brodeur will never be respected on this site. He was every bit as good as Roy and Hasek. HF has always valued trophies and SV% which is why he never got the respect on this site.

I never understood why certain players like Clarke and Messier were applauded for being dirty yet Stevens who played by the rules not only gets incorrectly called dirty, but is villified for it.

 

[Video Nasty]

Have you ever worn the leg pads that they used? Aside from being far too heavy for a goalie to be constantly moving up and down, there was also zero padding on the interior of the leg to accommodate a butterfly move, and the pads didn't rotate forward the way they do now. They were on their feet because they had to be.

This is Patrick Roy performing a "butterfly" move circa 1984, using standard pads of that time. Notice that he's sitting directly on his legs, with his knees down into the body of the pads.

This is Patrick Roy performing an actual butterfly about a decade later. Notice how differently his legs are positioned, since the pads are designed to protect his knees in the butterfly stance. You can actually see the new "landing gear" padding slightly below and to the left of the second O in KOHO.

And then another decade later. See how the pads have now been molded specifically on the assumption that goalies will only use the butterfly. Thigh risers close the five-hole, the toes are molded to kick the puck out from a butterfly position, the pads are profiled to create a perfectly straight seal along the ice, and they're hinged to rotate forward and face the shooter on their own. And check out those shoulder pads compared to the ones that were designed for stand-up goaltending... the butterfly-specific leg pads enabled butterfly-specific shoulder pads, and next thing you know he's blocking the whole net from a down position!

It wasn't about goalies suddenly figuring out how to tend goal, it was about a technological change that opened up a different playbook. What was the change? The development of plastic composites which replaced the old leathery pads. The light new pads allowed goalies to move differently, which introduced the idea of dropping on every shot. That led to "landing gear", which made the butterfly possible. That led to the total re-envisioning of the size and shape of every piece of gear on their body with the butterfly in mind, which locked the next generation into playing a butterfly style exclusively.

Imagine if someone didn’t slink into the shadows after that education and actually came back to say they learned something.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Brodeur will never be respected on this site. He was every bit as good as Roy and Hasek.

Talk about historical revisionism.

And I say this as someone who was a huge Brodeur fan in the early 00s and has him ranked 4th overall for goalies.

He just was plain not as good as Hasek and Roy.

 

[wetcoast]

I’m not sure that at his peak Crosby was better than current McDavid purely is terms of two-way abilities. McDavid kills penalties way more frequently and has about the same OZ %. Jagr and Ovechkin were possession monsters and/or more physical. Anyway, the assumed gap is not big enough to mention it so often

I think the regular season peak and prime (best 7 year stretch) is going to go to McDavid but the answer who do you take in a playoffs will still be crosby perhaps until McDavid wins a cup and that's how alot of people will treat him.

I think the SC thing is unfair and McDavid could still surpass Crosby and be part of a Big 5 or there becomes a Big 3 and then 2 guys with Crosby really close but time will tell.

 

[wetcoast]

I'm aware, and I didn't say "modeled the entire state" for a reason

I read 1984 a couple of years before 1984 and the West was still very much in a cold war state so the communist angle was heavily empahsied.

My gut feeling is that when Orwell wrote it Nazi Germany was on more British and western minds than Stalin and Communist Russia.

Today it would be totalitarian both democratic and other types but forgive me I have probably gone too far here already but it was an interesting side note and awareness is a good thing so thanks.

 

[wetcoast]

He just needs to Ray Bourque his way to a stacked team at the end of his career and all is forgiven.

I really wonder how Bourque would fair had he not won a SC?

Off the top of my head Park was the highest rated all time Dman in the HOH section and he was 11th and Bourque was 3rd (with some strong arguments for 2nd but the guy there was Harvey with a dynasty run).

I don’t think I’ve ever read a leaf fan describe his as either dilute or generational. He would however, have been the best forward the habs have had in the last 40 years, so obviously pretty darn good.

You are right he would be the best forward for the Habs in the last 40 years and I don't think that any forward currently in their system will end up better than Sundin but is it really the reason?

Maybe?

 

[wetcoast]

The fact that Mark Messier had three ho-hum seasons in Vancouver at age 36-38 somehow cancels out the rest of the his career (6 Cups, 3rd all-time leading scorer, etc.,).

My Best-Carey

Funny, I'm a Canucks fan and hated his time here but I don't think that, maybe what really happens is that all the great leader stuff gets over rated?

I mean there are multitudes of great NHL leaders who wouldn't have acted in such a prima donna way right?

 

[wetcoast]

Botterill and Ralph Kreuger attempted to completely alter Skinners legacy. top 5 5v5 scorer since entering the league. He will persevere.

What exactly is Skinner's legacy really?

He is 6th in ES goals during his time in the league and 27th in ES points.

 

[wetcoast]

Kane was absolutely a driving force behind the Hawks winning three cups. This is just a ridiculous take. He was the difference maker in the Philly series in 2010. He led them in scoring in 2013 and 2015. His offense was a big difference maker in many series through out those years.

I agree that he was a driving force but I'd take Keith ahead of him, not sure about Toews but can see why some people would.

Plus they were incredibly well constructed teams until the salary cap caught up to them.

Have you ever worn the leg pads that they used? Aside from being far too heavy for a goalie to be constantly moving up and down, there was also zero padding on the interior of the leg to accommodate a butterfly move, and the pads didn't rotate forward the way they do now. They were on their feet because they had to be.

This is Patrick Roy performing a "butterfly" move circa 1984, using standard pads of that time. Notice that he's sitting directly on his legs, with his knees down into the body of the pads.

This is Patrick Roy performing an actual butterfly about a decade later. Notice how differently his legs are positioned, since the pads are designed to protect his knees in the butterfly stance. You can actually see the new "landing gear" padding slightly below and to the left of the second O in KOHO.

And then another decade later. See how the pads have now been molded specifically on the assumption that goalies will only use the butterfly. Thigh risers close the five-hole, the toes are molded to kick the puck out from a butterfly position, the pads are profiled to create a perfectly straight seal along the ice, and they're hinged to rotate forward and face the shooter on their own. And check out those shoulder pads compared to the ones that were designed for stand-up goaltending... the butterfly-specific leg pads enabled butterfly-specific shoulder pads, and next thing you know he's blocking the whole net from a down position!

It wasn't about goalies suddenly figuring out how to tend goal, it was about a technological change that opened up a different playbook. What was the change? The development of plastic composites which replaced the old leathery pads. The light new pads allowed goalies to move differently, which introduced the idea of dropping on every shot. That led to "landing gear", which made the butterfly possible. That led to the total re-envisioning of the size and shape of every piece of gear on their body with the butterfly in mind, which locked the next generation into playing a butterfly style exclusively.

Not to mention the size of the glove and shoulder pads, the NHL was vastly different in many ways from the time of Gretzky to today.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Talk about historical revisionism.

And I say this as someone who was a huge Brodeur fan in the early 00s and has him ranked 4th overall for goalies.

He just was plain not as good as Hasek and Roy.

There's literally no evidence to support this.

 

[Peat]

I read 1984 a couple of years before 1984 and the West was still very much in a cold war state so the communist angle was heavily empahsied.

My gut feeling is that when Orwell wrote it Nazi Germany was on more British and western minds than Stalin and Communist Russia.

Today it would be totalitarian both democratic and other types but forgive me I have probably gone too far here already but it was an interesting side note and awareness is a good thing so thanks.

Orwell was staunchly against totalitarianism of all kinds as he saw it, but he had a particular focus on and animus for Stalin as a result of the Soviet Union's impact on British left wing politics, which he was deeply involved in. I can't imagine it weighed any less so on his mind than Nazi Germany.

(And now back on topic. Probably).