Post-Game Talk: We're only gonna need a moderately sized boat

[TominNC]

And Rangers fans keep beating themselves with history. When most have been watching for 10, 20, 30 some years. Plus a few of us old guys,

 

[Boris Zubov]

I'm pretty sure I read very similar things about Buffalo after they drafted Eichel.

That was 11 years ago. Celebrini is still 18.

 

[jniklast]

That was 11 years ago. Celebrini is still 18.

Huh? Still they were in almost the exact same position back then as SJ is now. There are no guarantees, even with so many seemingly great picks.

 

[Machinehead]

two conference finals in the past 3 years don't count. Have to keep remembering that. Lots of teams haven't won a cup in the past ten years

We didn't have a serious chance in either series because we couldn't match up with the top talent

 

[ReddestRum]

Huh? Still they were in almost the exact same position back then as SJ is now. There are no guarantees, even with so many seemingly great picks.

Nothing is guaranteed except that this core isn't winning shit. I can guarantee you that. Our GM has alzimers. The owner runs the team. The coach is afraid to make drastic changes. Our bandaid is to trade away our picks and keep signing has-beens.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Huh? Still they were in almost the exact same position back then as SJ is now. There are no guarantees, even with so many seemingly great picks.

My point is how can you possibly compare San Jose to the inept Sabres when they literally just started rebuilding a year or two ago. Buffalo was never as consistent for a as long as SJ was during that run of playoff appearance. Even still, the Sharts actually waited a season too long to tear it down, honestly.

I'm not sure where you're going here.... is it the Sabres failed with Eichel, so don't rebuild because there's no guarantees? Of course there are no guarantees, we're watching it with the NYR in real time. Doesn't change the fact that Celebrini is the epitome of a franchise player at 18. One you absolutely build your team around for a decade. The Sabres had that & decided they'd rather needle him & play doctor when he wanted to explore a cutting edge treatment for his neck.

 

[Machinehead]

Nothing is guaranteed except that this core isn't winning shit. I can guarantee you that. Our GM has alzimers. The owner runs the team. The coach is afraid to make drastic changes. Our bandaid is to trade away our picks and keep signing has-beens.

I'd feel a lot more optimistic about our long-term outlook if we didn't just trade a first round pick to anchor ourselves to another "can't believe it's not elite" aging player on a big contract.

 

[will1066]

And yet you have idiots that don't like him because he's short.

I actually hate him because of his chin

 

[jniklast]

My point is how can you possibly compare San Jose to the inept Sabres when they literally just started rebuilding a year or two ago. Buffalo was never as consistent for a as long as SJ was during that run of playoff appearance. Even still, the Sharts actually waited a season too long to tear it down, honestly.

I'm not sure where you're going here.... is it the Sabres failed with Eichel, so don't rebuild because there's no guarantees? Of course there are no guarantees, we're watching it with the NYR in real time. Doesn't change the fact that Celebrini is the epitome of a franchise player at 18. One you absolutely build your team around for a decade. The Sabres had that & decided they'd rather needle him & decide to play doctor when he wanted to explore a cutting edge treatment for his neck.

But you can only call Buffalo inept because of hindsight. At that time, it was not clear. And the level of success between the Sabres from 1990-2010 is comparable to the Sharks from 2000-2020. And yeah, Eichel shows that a lot can happen.

But my point is not to never rebuild, I'm just saying, that there's no guarantee, that everything works out if you just tank long enough. As people are now saying (with hindsight), that we should've just tanked properly, and then we would've surely had more success. But we did get a 1st and 2nd overall, yet we have hardly anything to show for it. That is mostly due to bad luck and not the franchise doing an incorrect rebuild.

 

[Boris Zubov]

But you can only call Buffalo inept because of hindsight. At that time, it was not clear. And the level of success between the Sabres from 1990-2010 is comparable to the Sharks from 2000-2020. And yeah, Eichel shows that a lot can happen.

But my point is not to never rebuild, I'm just saying, that there's no guarantee, that everything works out if you just tank long enough. As people are now saying (with hindsight), that we should've just tanked properly, and then we would've surely had more success. But we did get a 1st and 2nd overall, yet we have hardly anything to show for it. That is mostly due to bad luck and not the franchise doing an incorrect rebuild.

15 years of ineptitude is not hindsight. Everyone could see that Buffalo had no idea what they were doing while it was happening.

Even so, I'm still unclear what point you're trying to make. Don't be Buffalo? Check! I agree.

 

[jniklast]

15 years of ineptitude is not hindsight. Everyone could see that Buffalo had no idea what they were doing while it was happening.

Even so, I'm still unclear what point you're trying to make. Don't be Buffalo? Check! I agree.

No, my point is not to call any rebuild "completely unlike Buffalo", when, in fact, they are very similar with regards to their respective stages. We don't know the future. The Sharks rebuild looks solid so far, but that's all.

 

[Leonardo87]

Back in a WC spot. Have to scoreboard watch today. I mean if they blew that game last night , really think Lavi would have been fired today or tomorrow .

 

[Boris Zubov]

No, my point is not to call any rebuild "completely unlike Buffalo", when, in fact, they are very similar with regards to their respective stages. We don't know the future. The Sharks rebuild looks solid so far, but that's all.

So we're back at the point where we can't call the Sharks fortunate 2+ years into a rebuild because Buffalo failed after having similar luck getting Eichel at a similar stage in a rebuild? Nobody said SJ was going to be guaranteed of success & nobody said it couldn't end in failure. All I said was they were never Buffalo, not that a rebuild couldn't collapse.

Sorry, no offense meant toward you, but this is a waste of time. I'm bowing out.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Back in a WC spot. Have to scoreboard watch today. I mean if they blew that game last night , really think Lavi would have been fired today or tomorrow .

Worst win in franchise history

 

[SA16]

Everyone fearmongers about Buffalo when we talk about drafting top talent but we never talk about Colorado drafting MacKinnon, Florida drafting Barkov, or Tampa drafting Stamkos. Those don't fit the narrative. Hell, Edmonton made a Finals and looks poised to contend forever.

Toronto easily could have been a contender too, but they spent a bunch of cap space on John Tavares because he was a Leafs fan instead of getting a defenseman. They've made the playoffs 69 years a row.

The only team that drafted high-end talent and did absolutely nothing with it is Buffalo.

Probably because Colorado didn't win until 9 years after drafting MacKinnon, Florida didn't win until 11 years after drafting Barkov, and Tampa didn't win until 12 years after drafting Stamkos.

With that sort of time frame how could you even know that they wouldn't have still won if they took a completely different approach?

 

[80s Kid]

I'll let Don explain it.



Pretend Ed Kranepool is Chris Kreider.

Lol...I love this clip. Good thing we drafted Lafreniere.

 

[kovazub94]

Everyone fearmongers about Buffalo when we talk about drafting top talent but we never talk about Colorado drafting MacKinnon, Florida drafting Barkov, or Tampa drafting Stamkos. Those don't fit the narrative. Hell, Edmonton made a Finals and looks poised to contend forever.

Toronto easily could have been a contender too, but they spent a bunch of cap space on John Tavares because he was a Leafs fan instead of getting a defenseman. They've made the playoffs 69 years a row.

The only team that drafted high-end talent and did absolutely nothing with it is Buffalo.

You’re absolutely right about Tavares. For Leafs if they had to pinpoint a singe issue in this iteration it would be that signing. For the Rangers it’s about striking out on 1OA, 2OA and Kravtsov

 

[Levitate]

I'd feel a lot more optimistic about our long-term outlook if we didn't just trade a first round pick to anchor ourselves to another "can't believe it's not elite" aging player on a big contract.

eh as much as this team is infuriating and disappointing, it's unlikely they'll be picking high enough to guarantee a top 10 spot or something where you really are interested in who you get there. Miller's contract is fine for a guy who will likely be a top C for a bit longer and the money will be fine for a 2nd-3rd C as the cap goes up.

What makes me negative about the Rangers long term outlook is that they had the chance to really retool as a contender for years to come with back to back top 2 picks and both of those picks look like wiffs (through no real fault of the Rangers, though they could have handled those players better regardless of what they turned out to be).
Massive luck to win the draft lottery multiple times and...get mediocre return on those top picks instead of hitting on franchise players like other teams have that turned it into success.

Kind of pinning out hopes on Perreault now and while I love that they drafted him and like a ton about his game I don't think he's that elite talent they'd need.

IMO they just need to start takign swing after swing at guys with raw talent in all rounds of the draft. They've drafted for "safe" players for long enough now just take swings. At this point I'm fine with them wiffing on an entire draft going for high talent players instead of hoping to get a handful of future 3rd and 4th liners

 

[Machinehead]

Probably because Colorado didn't win until 9 years after drafting MacKinnon, Florida didn't win until 11 years after drafting Barkov, and Tampa didn't win until 12 years after drafting Stamkos.

With that sort of time frame how could you even know that they wouldn't have still won if they took a completely different approach?

I'll give you Florida. Colorado and Tampa immediately became competitive.

 

[Levitate]

As for this game, I caught bits and pieces and the thing that infuriates me about the team this year (and somewhat ever since the AV days) is their inability to consistently compete for long stretches of games and sometimes even period to period. They lose a lot of games, like the Ducks game, because at some point they let off the gas and just get out worked. Just plain outworked because they're not playing the way they need to.
Then they'll put up a game like this that they mostly dominate and you hope maybe they've got their heads straight and maybe they will for a few games and then they'll go back to going through the motions and getting outworked and lose again.

It's this fascinating and frustrating apparent belief that they don't need to out compete the other team they just need to show up and flash some "talent" and that's enough

 

[SA16]

eh as much as this team is infuriating and disappointing, it's unlikely they'll be picking high enough to guarantee a top 10 spot or something where you really are interested in who you get there. Miller's contract is fine for a guy who will likely be a top C for a bit longer and the money will be fine for a 2nd-3rd C as the cap goes up.

What makes me negative about the Rangers long term outlook is that they had the chance to really retool as a contender for years to come with back to back top 2 picks and both of those picks look like wiffs (through no real fault of the Rangers, though they could have handled those players better regardless of what they turned out to be).
Massive luck to win the draft lottery multiple times and...get mediocre return on those top picks instead of hitting on franchise players like other teams have that turned it into success.

Kind of pinning out hopes on Perreault now and while I love that they drafted him and like a ton about his game I don't think he's that elite talent they'd need.

IMO they just need to start takign swing after swing at guys with raw talent in all rounds of the draft. They've drafted for "safe" players for long enough now just take swings. At this point I'm fine with them wiffing on an entire draft going for high talent players instead of hoping to get a handful of future 3rd and 4th liners

J.T. Miller gets quite a lot of hate when you consider that in two months as a Ranger he has managed to outscore the entirety of every Chytil season but one for only 3.5M more in salary.

 

[Machinehead]

eh as much as this team is infuriating and disappointing, it's unlikely they'll be picking high enough to guarantee a top 10 spot or something where you really are interested in who you get there. Miller's contract is fine for a guy who will likely be a top C for a bit longer and the money will be fine for a 2nd-3rd C as the cap goes up.

What makes me negative about the Rangers long term outlook is that they had the chance to really retool as a contender for years to come with back to back top 2 picks and both of those picks look like wiffs (through no real fault of the Rangers, though they could have handled those players better regardless of what they turned out to be).
Massive luck to win the draft lottery multiple times and...get mediocre return on those top picks instead of hitting on franchise players like other teams have that turned it into success.

Kind of pinning out hopes on Perreault now and while I love that they drafted him and like a ton about his game I don't think he's that elite talent they'd need.

IMO they just need to start takign swing after swing at guys with raw talent in all rounds of the draft. They've drafted for "safe" players for long enough now just take swings. At this point I'm fine with them wiffing on an entire draft going for high talent players instead of hoping to get a handful of future 3rd and 4th liners

It doesn't necessarily have to be a top 10 pick. There are more top 10 picks who are nobodies than franchise talents. There's a huge luck element and it doesn't make sense to me to give up a bullet in the chamber for a 32 year old.

Do they still think they're gonna win within the next couple of years?

 

[Levitate]

I'll give you Florida. Colorado and Tampa immediately became competitive.

I seem to remember a lot of "eh" years with Colorado and ups and down until it all came together. I don't think tehy were consistent cup contenders but I can't be assed to go look at things

Same with Tampa. Stamkos became a star but they didn't become real contenders until Kucherov came along. They had a good season in 2010-2011 but then missed the playoffs for two years before returning only to get swept by Montreal
It was really 2014-2015 when they got rolling as a real contender and that was 6 years after Stamkos was drafted (which coincided with Kucherov joining the team)

 

[Machinehead]

J.T. Miller gets quite a lot of hate when you consider that in two months as a Ranger he has managed to outscore the entirety of every Chytil season but one for only 3.5M more in salary.

It's more so the pick and still having a "win now" outlook on this group of players. I don't really care about Chytil.

 

[MrAlmost]

I'll let Don explain it.



Pretend Ed Kranepool is Chris Kreider.

This is the best and perfectly applicable to the Rangers. A single 1000 point Ranger. 100 years. 1. And they retired in f***ing 78! No 500 goal scorer. Barely a 400 goal scorer and only 1 there too. AND ITS THE SAME GUY! Haha