GDT: Welcome, 2025 | Detroit @ Columbus | 7 PM EST

[Monk]

This team is a league average goalie and a Gus Nyquist away from being in a playoff position.

I'm not sure even I would enjoy watching them get smacked in the dick in the first round yet again. Would it be good for the young guy's confidence and development?

I've fully embraced the eval year I guess.

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

I'm not sure even I would enjoy watching them get smacked in the dick in the first round yet again. Would it be good for the young guy's confidence and development?

I've fully embraced the eval year I guess.

I would imagine that feeling "we made the playoffs while still having so much room to grow" and getting a first taste of playoff hockey can only be a good thing. They are competitors.

You wouldn't feel optimism for the future with a first round exit with all that cap space and all of those young players who will hopefully continue to get better?

 

[MoeBartoli]

I think he's been OK given the team play in front of him. We've had tons of breakdowns with how aggressive we play on the offensive side yet we still give up a ton of shots on goal and get outshot.

That being said, people criticize someone so much based on their paycheck around here. Imagine paying Shesterkin 11.5 a year in the future for him to be putting up the numbers he's got this year. But he probably gets a pass because his team is sh*t. We realistically aren't that much better. We are overachieving this year so far and still a defensive mess across the board. I saw the post game comments last night and soeone in the media gave Evason the opportunity to throw Elvis under the bus at the end and all he did was commend him for making a couple of huge saves when needed and say he had no issue with his play. he didn't bite on the easy opportunity that as thrown at him.

In reality we are not a good team and still have lots of holes that will take time to work out from under.

Evasion didn’t need to throw him under the bus. Our own bus takes care of that.

Sorry @thebus88 - I couldn’t resist.

 

[Monk]

You wouldn't feel optimism for the future with a first round exit with all that cap space and all of those young players who will hopefully continue to get better?

Having been a CBJ fan for most of my life... no.

But that being said, I do feel very optimistic right now. More so than I have for a long time.

Weird combo, I know.

 

[tunnelvision]

I don't think Waddell's plan was to just passively evaluate everyone for a full year and wait for next offseason to make upgrades on the roster. He tried to acquire Trouba and had talks at least with Vancouver (Hoglander?). That could be just the tip of the iceberg.

So to me it seems that "the evaluation process" or whatever you want to call it has been already done on some of the players, and that he's looking to make improvements but for better or worse just hasn't been able to find a good trade partner and finalize a deal. I don't question his willingness to make trades during season but I'm not sure the players he's targeted have been the type of players we actually need.

 

[stevo61]

Even before Johnny's passing, Wads acknowledged that we were short on forwards. And so naturally he waits.. and waits ... and then signs three leftover guys that no one else wanted. We don't know the circumstances with Tex or Alex Nylander, maybe they had to go, and neither are very good. And certainly Roslovic and Laine were poor fits that had to go. But it's the GMs job to replace players when he sends others out. He hasn't done that. And I don't think missing two forwards to injury is that unusual, if that isn't the norm, it sure seems to be for teams I follow.

I don't think Elvis has been decent. Not his worst either, but he hasn't been good. I still wish we had bought him out last summer, the case for it was strong enough at the time.



Well over a year ago now, after the Babcock debacle, I made the point that keeping Jarmo for the year and then replacing him in the next offseason would result in the next guy taking a "full evaluation year" to figure out the team. So basically two whole years before we can try to win. I personally don't think it takes that long to figure out what this team needs. I think we know right now what it would take for this team to take a step, give the best supporting environment to our young guns, and possibly make the playoffs now. We don't have a good enough reason not to try winning.

Depends on what's he's after. Early sounded like he was looking around for cheap to acquire options wonder if he's trying to big game hunt but some teams he's looking at aren't ready to let those players go yet. Probably the most annoying thing to me is not finding a backup that can steal some starts. The staff doesn't trust Tarasov and he's been bad for awhile

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

Depends on what's he's after. Early sounded like he was looking around for cheap to acquire options wonder if he's trying to big game hunt but some teams he's looking at aren't ready to let those players go yet. Probably the most annoying thing to me is not finding a backup that can steal some starts. The staff doesn't trust Tarasov and he's been bad for awhile

I wonder if a team like Chicago would be willing to part with Brossoit (who's been injured) for Tarasov (as a reclamation project) and a mid-to-late round draft pick? He has a contract for next year. I'm just assuming Merzlikins will be traded or bought out at this stage, though he does have positive GSAx numbers. Otherwise, I guess CBJ could sign someone like Vladar, Lankinen or Hill in the off-season.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

In regards to Waddell it’s kind of hard to grade what he’s done so far because it’s been so little to judge. Unless of course, you want to use the inactivity against him. But I don’t, he got in super late and decided to take a look at the staff before the roster. Which I can understand.

Like others have said, I think this summer is where the roster changes come in hot and heavy. We obviously know guys like Labanc, JJ, and JVR (among others) won’t be here and those spots aren’t only going to be filled by young guys like Brindley, LDBB, etc. I think it’s mostly a conversation to have about Waddell’s beginning tenure for around this time next year.

My only grievances with him so far are his Jiricek trade and Lindstrom. But both can easily be turned into positives.

 

[Jovavic]

I'm happy that Texier hasn't gone all Wild Bill in St. Louis, that was the only trade he's done that I thought would backfire.

I hate the Lindstrom pick more every day. Jiricek clearly wasn't working and he was always a boom or bust pick with a low chance of booming, so moving him for more magic beans while he still had some value is fine.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

nm

 

[stevo61]

The team is 10 points out of a wild card with over half a season to go. So, no they're not.

Nyquist has a whopping 14 points in 37 games and is part of a train wreck in Nashville and Elvis is about .3GAA average above the norm.

An average goalie would help a bit. Nyquist would yield hardly any benefit and perhaps none at all.

? They are 2 points out of a wild card spot, more games played though. 10 points out of top 3 in the division

 

[Cyclones Rock]

? They are 2 points out of a wild card spot, more games played though. 10 points out of top 3 in the division

That's why I deleted it.

Still hold that Nyquist would make zero difference.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

In regards to Waddell it’s kind of hard to grade what he’s done so far because it’s been so little to judge. Unless of course, you want to use the inactivity against him. But I don’t, he got in super late and decided to take a look at the staff before the roster. Which I can understand.

i wouldn't call it inactivity, and the moves he's made have been largely great, especially:

• signing sean monahan, who is a legit 1C getting paid less money than most 2Cs get nowadays on top of being a huge culture add to the room
• getting rid of the headache and significant money owed to laine at a relatively minimal cost (2nd round pick)
• trimming the fat from the roster – none of the guys he got rid of are playing consistent NHL roles right now
• hiring a coach who understands how to utilize young players and has been getting a lot out of them (huge breakouts from marchy, kj, voronkov, big improvements from sillinger and chinakhov)
• correctly identifying which veteran pieces should fill out the roster (ZAR + JVR have been solid in their roles) instead of rushing guys into those roles who aren't ready

a lot of the "inactivity" in the offseason was due to how the roster was constructed then (post-laine trade). then a reckless driver killed their best player and multiple key pieces (jenner, gudbranson, KJ chinakhov, danforth) dealing with long-term injuries.

this year was always about talent evaluation, culture-setting and incremental progress. it's hard to give waddell anything but an A for his performance so far.

My only grievances with him so far are his Jiricek trade and Lindstrom. But both can easily be turned into positives.

still waaaaay to early on lindstrom. not going to fault anyone here for being anxious about that pick given the back injury, but the team had all of his medicals and decided they were comfortable with it.

the jiricek trade was good. not sure if hunt ever turns into anything but the haul of picks is great and at this point i'm not convinced jiricek ever carves out a major role in the NHL.

 

[majormajor]

I wonder if a team like Chicago would be willing to part with Brossoit (who's been injured) for Tarasov (as a reclamation project) and a mid-to-late round draft pick? He has a contract for next year.

We've had Hawks fans suggest that actual trade. I imagine it might take closer to a 3rd. I'm not aware why Brossoit isn't set up as a backup there or somewhere else, his numbers are usually very good.

I'm just assuming Merzlikins will be traded or bought out at this stage, though he does have positive GSAx numbers. Otherwise, I guess CBJ could sign someone like Vladar, Lankinen or Hill in the off-season if not.

I've seen a couple folks reference a positive GSAx number for Elvis and I can't find that anywhere. Elvis has given up 79 goals, and per moneypuck that is 6 more than expected, and per hockey-reference that is 8.5 more than expected. Is some site showing him with positive numbers?

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

We've had Hawks fans suggest that actual trade. I imagine it might take closer to a 3rd. I'm not aware why Brossoit isn't set up as a backup there or somewhere else, his numbers are usually very good. He's injured, I think that's the reason he's not the backup now.

Brossoit and Rittich are reliable backup goaltenders, usually with very good 5v5 GSAx. I'd do that trade in a heartbeat and roll Brossoit and Greaves next year.

I've seen a couple folks reference a positive GSAx number for Elvis and I can't find that anywhere. Elvis has given up 79 goals, and per moneypuck that is 6 more than expected, and per hockey-reference that is 8.5 more than expected. Is some site showing him with positive numbers?

I should have clarified I meant 5v5 GSAx. He's usually pretty solid in that statistic at Moneypuck save that one really horrible season.

 

[majormajor]

i wouldn't call it inactivity, and the moves he's made have been largely great, especially:

• signing sean monahan, who is a legit 1C getting paid less money than most 2Cs get nowadays on top of being a huge culture add to the room
• getting rid of the headache and significant money owed to laine at a relatively minimal cost (2nd round pick)
• trimming the fat from the roster – none of the guys he got rid of are playing consistent NHL roles right now
• hiring a coach who understands how to utilize young players and has been getting a lot out of them (huge breakouts from marchy, kj, voronkov, big improvements from sillinger and chinakhov)
• correctly identifying which veteran pieces should fill out the roster (ZAR + JVR have been solid in their roles) instead of rushing guys into those roles who aren't ready

Perhaps my expectations are too high for the GM. I had getting rid of Laine, hiring Evason, and signing Monahan in the obvious moves category. Goalie turnover was also in there.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

Did people really want to buyout Elvis before the season? It made total sense to give him a fresh start and see what he could do with a new GM and coaching staff.

 

[majormajor]

Did people really want to buyout Elvis before the season? It made total sense to give him a fresh start and see what he could do with a new GM and coaching staff.

Well, yeah. I feel like you're such a regular here that you would have noticed. It wasn't quiet.

The issues with Elvis were lengthy and not just related to his save percentage. A lot of discord with the teammates that they've had to work on.

Actually that brings to mind something that I should commend Wads for. Wads said to Elvis that he had to focus on his relationships with his teammates and just being a good teammate. To paraphrase, if they want to play for you they'll play well in front of you. And that has helped a lot. I still think the timing is right for a change in net, but our goaltending has gone from horrible to just below average and that is something.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Perhaps my expectations are too high for the GM. I had getting rid of Laine, hiring Evason, and signing Monahan in the obvious moves category. Goalie turnover was also in there.

the other elephant in the room is that it was impossible to get clean evals on any of the young guys seeing as 1) jarmo kept rushing them to the NHL and 2) vincent largely refused to give them legitimate NHL ice time and wasn't good at getting production out of skill guys.

waddell came in with a focus on getting rid of filler pieces, cleaning up problems, improving the culture and setting the stage for the youngsters to make their case. it has largely worked.

the one guy they weren't able to get rid of was elvis, and waddell imo has masterfully maneuvered that by pushing him to be better in the room. it'll be easier to move him (or buy him out) next summer.

this upcoming summer is the time for big swings, and by cashing in on jiricek as early as he did, the team now has a war chest to make things happen, and the guys who stay have a reason to believe in the room and the staff.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Did people really want to buyout Elvis before the season? It made total sense to give him a fresh start and see what he could do with a new GM and coaching staff.

Some people wanted Elvis bought out the day after he signed the contract. He just hasn't played his way out those people's mindsets.

 

[majormajor]

the other elephant in the room is that it was impossible to get clean evals on any of the young guys seeing as 1) jarmo kept rushing them to the NHL and 2) vincent largely refused to give them legitimate NHL ice time and wasn't good at getting production out of skill guys.

waddell came in with a focus on getting rid of filler pieces, cleaning up problems, improving the culture and setting the stage for the youngsters to make their case. it has largely worked.

Jarmo and Vincent weren't putting those kids in the best situations. I'd add that the kids were also just younger and a mess.

We're there now with Fantilli and they haven't fix him. I think he should be on the wing and I don't like how Wads and Evason have handled it.

I think all of our young guys needed more time to step up and be evaluated on that before their long term contracts could be planned out. Except for one guy, and we did debate this at the time. Marchenko was an obvious guy to get on a long term deal, it was already clear last year. Instead Wads got him on a three year deal - which will save us cap when we don't need it, and cost us a fortune when we do need it.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Marchenko was an obvious guy to get on a long term deal, it was already clear last year. Instead Wads got him on a three year deal - which will save us cap when we don't need it, and cost us a fortune when we do need it.

i've thought about this too much (to the point where it may as well be overthinking), but my position is that a bridge followed by and 8-year deal is better than going with an 8-year deal off the bat.

• Option A: 8-year RFA deal
  • Expires with UFA status in 2032
  • Cap in 2032 would be much higher
  • Player will be in early 30s and looking to cash in on one more big contract
• Option B: 3-year bridge
  • Expires with RFA status in 2027
  • Cap in 2027 will be higher, but not nearly as high as 2032
  • Player will be in mid-30s when next deal expires, not in position to negotiate long-term deal

admittedly, with marchenko being 23 at his first RFA negotiation instead of, say, 21 or 22, means his case isn't quite as strong.

going bridge-then-8 is more cap-efficient in years 1-3, less efficient in years 4-8, then more efficient in years 9-11+ as the player hits UFA in their mid-30s and is either easier to retain (cheaper short-term deals) or easier to let go of.

going with an 8-year deal off the bat is more efficient for a time, but means the player hits UFA at an age (29-31) where teams are still going to offer high-value, long-term deals that do not age well. it introduces risk that they'll either become an anchor contract (more expensive in years 9+++) or that they'll walk for nothing.

not saying don waddell is (or should be) planning 10+ years into the future during his RFA negotiations, but the ideal lifecycle for a player imo is one that doesn't lead to the team being stuck with a high-AAV long-term deal to a declining player in their mid/late 30s. going with a bridge first avoids that scenario and gives them a way to recoup value if things go south in the first non-ELC contract.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Well, yeah. I feel like you're such a regular here that you would have noticed. It wasn't quiet.

The issues with Elvis were lengthy and not just related to his save percentage. A lot of discord with the teammates that they've had to work on.

Actually that brings to mind something that I should commend Wads for. Wads said to Elvis that he had to focus on his relationships with his teammates and just being a good teammate. To paraphrase, if they want to play for you they'll play well in front of you. And that has helped a lot. I still think the timing is right for a change in net, but our goaltending has gone from horrible to just below average and that is something.

Also notable are DWs comments which were pretty clear that this was a make or break year for Elvis.

I'll join you in the disappointed category if something substantial isn't done on the goalie front this off season. Elvis could stick around as a back up and avoid the buyout cost. He's probably worth the $3.6 million buyout equivalent that it would cost for a suitable backup.

 

[S1N4TR4]

In regards to Waddell it’s kind of hard to grade what he’s done so far because it’s been so little to judge. Unless of course, you want to use the inactivity against him. But I don’t, he got in super late and decided to take a look at the staff before the roster. Which I can understand.

Like others have said, I think this summer is where the roster changes come in hot and heavy. We obviously know guys like Labanc, JJ, and JVR (among others) won’t be here and those spots aren’t only going to be filled by young guys like Brindley, LDBB, etc. I think it’s mostly a conversation to have about Waddell’s beginning tenure for around this time next year.

My only grievances with him so far are his Jiricek trade and Lindstrom. But both can easily be turned into positives.

what’s your gripe about the Jiricek trade?

 

[ColumbusTrill]

Well, yeah. I feel like you're such a regular here that you would have noticed. It wasn't quiet.

The issues with Elvis were lengthy and not just related to his save percentage. A lot of discord with the teammates that they've had to work on.

Actually that brings to mind something that I should commend Wads for. Wads said to Elvis that he had to focus on his relationships with his teammates and just being a good teammate. To paraphrase, if they want to play for you they'll play well in front of you. And that has helped a lot. I still think the timing is right for a change in net, but our goaltending has gone from horrible to just below average and that is something.

Lol you are probably right. And yes, his play isn't much better than last year but by all accounts his attitude has been