Weekly News Roundup (9/19 - 9/25) - Matt Hardy-WWE, Cena/Taker, SD stable?

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Oct 18, 2011
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He's John freaking Cena, dude. He's been going over for 10 years, god forbid he lose a 10 minute match on a rollup. Pretty much the last guy who needs protection. Ambrose losing would have been way worse.

it's not about that, it's about making someone beating him mean something and IMO they just used it as a throw away for ambrose match next week there was no long term thinking involved, if he loses cleanly it needs to matter.
 

Falco Lombardi

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He's John freaking Cena, dude. He's been going over for 10 years, god forbid he lose a 10 minute match on a rollup. Pretty much the last guy who needs protection. Ambrose losing would have been way worse.

A victory over John Cena needs to mean something. It's not a match that should have happened right away.
 

AfroThunder396

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The match didn't need a build, the match *WAS* the build. Now Dean looks like a legitimate challenger going into No Mercy. He lost the title on a nutshot and he just pinned John Cena after getting more serious.

Cena and Styles don't need help looking good, Dean does. Who cares about a random SD match in September, build for the PPV. You guys were all complaining about Backlash having a poor build, but now as soon as No Mercy starts to develop a backstory you guys want to complain about that because a free TV match didn't mean enough to you?
 

Fro

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yeah, I don't look down at Cena for the loss...I think it helped Dean out now and keeps him in the hunt...a loss would have hurt Ambrose...now if Dean takes the pin at the PPV, I'm not as worried about it...he's still credible...
 

Emperoreddy

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Ideally that should of been a PPV match or they should of built it for more then a day.

It's the right story to tell, but ideally you want it to be a bigger deal.

Actually if I would change something I would of stipulated that Dean gets his title rematch at the beginning of the night so we know the stakes going in.

Dean wins on Dirty Deeds and there is no AJ or DB at the end. Show ends with Dean celebrating and commentary putting over how big a deal it is.
 

M.C.G. 31

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I don't know if you'd want Dean to eat the pin at No Mercy with Cena leaving. Wrestlemania plans hinging on Undertaker's status also leave a big question mark. You want to keep Dean credible in case you do another PPV singles match between them and Orton/Wyatt is longer than one show. Styles is on the level where he can pin Cena clean again, IMO, and no one will bat an eye. Ambrose needs some protection.

Of course, with the title match being on Tuesday I have no idea if the plan is for Dean to get a singles match on PPV for the title again.
 

Pinkfloyd

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I think they put Ambrose over Cena so that Ambrose can eat the pin at No Mercy. But the only way to make that work well is to make it where he eats a couple finishers pretty quickly and Styles gets the pin. Have Cena do his Super-AA from the middle rope, Styles does the Phenomenal Forearm to Cena that knocks him outside, and Styles finishes Ambrose with the Styles Clash. Yeah, Ambrose eats the pin but it took at least one ridiculous finisher and a second one to do it.
 

M.C.G. 31

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I think the finish would be something like a Pele Kick to Ambrose into an AA, Styles throwing Cena into the post and then hitting a Styles Clash on Ambrose for the pin.


Weird that Clash of Champions is this Sunday but we're more interested in No Mercy. :laugh:
 

M.C.G. 31

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"Him [Cena] losing to Kevin Owens was a big deal. Him losing to Daniel Bryan was a big deal. Him losing to AJ Styles was a big deal. Him being just another guy and losing on Smackdown to Ambrose was just a waste!" - Bryan Alvarez

"He should lose to Dean Ambrose on a stage that gets Dean Ambrose more over. This wasn't it." -- paraphrasing Mike Sempervive

"People are saying 'it was a cradle, it doesn't matter' THAT'S THE POINT! Why even do it if it's not going to matter?" - Alvarez
 

M.C.G. 31

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- There's a new concussion testing based off researchers from Sweden based off spinal fluid. The researchers found if you check spinal fluid, you'll be able to figure out when an athlete should retire or be able to come back from injury. A big test was done on it and the results were encouraging -- not perfect, but encouraging to determine when someone can come back and when they should retire.

Alvarez talking about how if they needed Ambrose to win clean to be credible, they did a horrible job with him as champion since he was champ for 3 months. It was still a meaningless result. The last time Cena lost clean on TV was to Tensai and "look where it got Tensai!" He says it probably wouldn't have worked with Tensai anyways, but it may have been a bit better for Tensai if they built up for PPV.
 

Fro

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see and if anything I am of the "you have to tune in, things like this could happen every week" group...it was unexpected, I'd not want to see how Cena responds next week...
 

Pinkfloyd

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"Him [Cena] losing to Kevin Owens was a big deal. Him losing to Daniel Bryan was a big deal. Him losing to AJ Styles was a big deal. Him being just another guy and losing on Smackdown to Ambrose was just a waste!" - Bryan Alvarez

"He should lose to Dean Ambrose on a stage that gets Dean Ambrose more over. This wasn't it." -- paraphrasing Mike Sempervive

"People are saying 'it was a cradle, it doesn't matter' THAT'S THE POINT! Why even do it if it's not going to matter?" - Alvarez

I agree that two of them were big deals. The DB one was a big deal for all of five minutes. After that, it was dead and buried for the most part. Ambrose beating Cena while with some definite drawbacks was the right decision. Ambrose needs to be protected while they phase him out of the title picture. He's probably losing the rematch and probably eating the pin at No Mercy. If you don't give him an important win leading up to it, you're hurting the credibility of the only top face on Smackdown that people genuinely care about. Orton is the only other top face that will be there when Cena isn't but nobody really cares about Orton anymore.
 

Emperoreddy

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It was the right thing to have Dean go over, but I don't think that is the point being made.

The point is that it needs to be on a bigger stage to maximize it. This win could of done a lot more for Dean with a bigger lead the up or on a bigger stage.

Also the reason the othher clean loses didn't amount to much in the long run was the booking later on. Either they squandered it or gave Cena his win back which neutralized everything.
 

Emperoreddy

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I think the finish would be something like a Pele Kick to Ambrose into an AA, Styles throwing Cena into the post and then hitting a Styles Clash on Ambrose for the pin.


Weird that Clash of Champions is this Sunday but we're more interested in No Mercy. :laugh:

Cena jobbing for the first time on TV cleanly is huge news. Not shocking it's taking up all of our attention.

CoC still has a potential MOTYC main event and should be good viewing, if not predictable.
 

Pinkfloyd

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It was the right thing to have Dean go over, but I don't think that is the point being made.

The point is that it needs to be on a bigger stage to maximize it. This win could of done a lot more for Dean with a bigger lead the up or on a bigger stage.

Also the reason the othher clean loses didn't amount to much in the long run was the booking later on. Either they squandered it or gave Cena his win back which neutralized everything.

But pointing to it needing to be on the bigger stage is missing the bigger picture. The fact of the matter is that there isn't going to be a bigger stage for Ambrose-Cena to happen. Cena's schedule will prevent that since he's done for the year after No Mercy except for maybe a one-off at Survivor Series. Once Mania season happens which is his likely return time, he's either going after Styles or Taker where he will be far away from Ambrose.

It's a matter of priorities at this point. Ambrose is going to be one of their workhorses and one of the very few consistent main event presences they have on Smackdown. He is in the likely position of having to eat two more major losses while being phased out of the title picture. They have to do what they can to keep his credibility up and the fact is that Cena is capable of taking the hit to do that. While it may not maximize its effectiveness, it is absolutely necessary to do it given the circumstances. Protecting Ambrose in this situation is more important to the overall picture than worrying about maximizing a clean Cena loss to Ambrose when they weren't ever going to get a better stage to do that with.

And quite honestly with where the program is at right now, I would not be opposed to Ambrose winning the title back from Styles on Smackdown on Tuesday. People will probably not like that idea but I think it's the best solution because it will generate some pretty important news for Smackdown's show. I think they need a title change of this caliber on the program at least once plus it gives an excuse to do Ambrose-Styles at Survivor Series while letting Orton-Wyatt finish then before the switch in programs. I do understand it is playing a little bit of hot potato with the title but I think they need it.
 
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M.C.G. 31

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Cena jobbing for the first time on TV cleanly is huge news. Not shocking it's taking up all of our attention.

CoC still has a potential MOTYC main event and should be good viewing, if not predictable.

Tensai beat Cena clean in 2012 or 2013 on Raw.
 

Emperoreddy

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But pointing to it needing to be on the bigger stage is missing the bigger picture. The fact of the matter is that there isn't going to be a bigger stage for Ambrose-Cena to happen. Cena's schedule will prevent that since he's done for the year after No Mercy except for maybe a one-off at Survivor Series. Once Mania season happens which is his likely return time, he's either going after Styles or Taker where he will be far away from Ambrose.

It's a matter of priorities at this point. Ambrose is going to be one of their workhorses and one of the very few consistent main event presences they have on Smackdown. He is in the likely position of having to eat two more major losses while being phased out of the title picture. They have to do what they can to keep his credibility up and the fact is that Cena is capable of taking the hit to do that. While it may not maximize its effectiveness, it is absolutely necessary to do it given the circumstances. Protecting Ambrose in this situation is more important to the overall picture than worrying about maximizing a clean Cena loss to Ambrose when they weren't ever going to get a better stage to do that with.

And quite honestly with where the program is at right now, I would not be opposed to Ambrose winning the title back from Styles on Smackdown on Tuesday. People will probably not like that idea but I think it's the best solution because it will generate some pretty important news for Smackdown's show. I think they need a title change of this caliber on the program at least once plus it gives an excuse to do Ambrose-Styles at Survivor Series while letting Orton-Wyatt finish then before the switch in programs. I do understand it is playing a little bit of hot potato with the title but I think they need it.

It would be one thing if this was the catalyst for a mega push but odds are that isn't what is going to happen.

AJ will retain and Dean will most likely go to the upper mid card making this a waste.

And that's why it's a waste. It isn't like AJ's win where it was a huge stage and a clear jumping pad for his big push. Dean's been treated like a transitional champ since he won the belt, and not even a roll up Cena win on SD is going to reverse that over night.

It really didn't help that Cena seemed checked out for that match. If they wrestled a classic it might of stuck more.

Again the point isn't that Dean should of won the match. Of course Dean should of won. The point is it should be a huge deal, but instead comes off as just "whatever"
 

Pinkfloyd

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It would be one thing if this was the catalyst for a mega push but odds are that isn't what is going to happen.

AJ will retain and Dean will most likely go to the upper mid card making this a waste.

And that's why it's a waste. It isn't like AJ's win where it was a huge stage and a clear jumping pad for his big push. Dean's been treated like a transitional champ since he won the belt, and not even a roll up Cena win on SD is going to reverse that over night.

It really didn't help that Cena seemed checked out for that match. If they wrestled a classic it might of stuck more.

Again the point isn't that Dean should of won the match. Of course Dean should of won. The point is it should be a huge deal, but instead comes off as just "whatever"

It's only a waste if Ambrose is stuck in a perpetual state of upper midcard status. Since that isn't likely to happen, it's only really a waste because people don't have any vision for the long term. Keeping credibility on a former champion that will very likely be back in a title program within a year's time is not now nor has it ever been a waste.

Again, the point isn't that it should be a huge deal. The point is that people are so used to the fact that WWE has issues with long term planning that when something makes sense to long term planning that they pan it. Protecting Ambrose is more important than maximizing a Cena loss. If beating Cena really meant that much anyway, it would be big regardless of the situation but it's not really that big of a deal...and that's partly because of how people view Cena.
 
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