Post-Game Talk: We choked on the fishsticks

[blue425]

Choked? I'd say force fed. They looked o.k. early, but once Trouba went down the games complexion completely changed.

Isles pressed and the Rangers had no answers. Next!

 

[Ruggs225]

My biggest peeve this entire season is our crappy forecheck.

isles always had two men after the puck, even on line changes.

We barely have one. Even when we arent changing lines

 

[Shesterkybomb]

As far as our prospects go right now in terms of ability to play at nhl level and contribute offensively, they are ranked Kravtsov, Kakko, Lafreniere. They need to give him a top 6 spot if they wanna try an make a run especially against heavier teams where Blackwell tends to fade away. Kravtsov is the only one of the three thats shooting, the other two need to learn to trust their shots.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So will we see Reneunan and Hajek next game or will they give us Jones?

 

[bernmeister]

If this happens I’ll shit my pants. Krav going from rookie RW to number 1 C and Gauthier going from the press box to the number 2 RW. I bet we see a trade before we see Quinn put out this line up. Keep hope alive I guess

Spare us your efforts, successful or otherwise, on coagulating your defecation.
underline:
It is not a hard matter of a "[#]1" line,
it is our top line b'c its Panarin.
Panarin obv can be successful other line combos, likewise so can Krav. But the pt is this particular line has everything, and would be a terror to play against,
It has size, speed, power, scoring ability, etc etc etc.
It follows my guide of one working formula:
driver of play - facilitator - scoring threat.

Instead of pooh-pooing the suggestion, pls feel free to try to provide actual objective, constructive analysis to counter suggest why both the underlying premise of that formula, and by extension, the proposed line, would not work, iyo.

bold:
same as above, except to a lesser degree.
Chytil is an emerging C, LaF is supposed to be a stud scorer and we expect will be as he gets comfortable w/NHL game.
Gauthier does have the tools and shows the compete level to be a driver of play, particularly on this line.
Familiarity. Increased comfort level. linemates play better together. Increased production. Potential for synergy.

Give the man a fair chance.
It is not JG's fault that DQ plays Howden, and does not run correct lines.

You have a love affair with Gauthier. That kid is not a top six player.

The guy has 2 goals in 44 games and people act like he's an undiscovered diamond.
He might turn out to be a top-6, someday, but I'd bet against it.
Howden is 2 years younger and has 16 goals in 173 games and no one I know thinks he might become a top-6 player.

Disagree.
There is a reason we surrendered a promising RD [Keane] for this guy. He has the tools. He has good speed size adequate strength and shot. He applies himself (I don't know about before but haven't seen him dogging it even 1 game since he got here.)

Chemistry.
Line combos that work.
He is a good cog to have and good value.
Again, not his fault DQ is an idiot.

As to Howden, he has had his chance. Some of what he brings IS positive. But he has no hands, esp as to [setting up for] shooting. He also does not have a great shot.
Gauthier is an upgrade extensively if not entirely across the board.

Yeah, I said it.
I take my lines over DQ.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I don’t want to overreact to 1 game, but it’s 1 think to lose... and another to show up and just float around in a must win game. It seems like almost no one showed up.

I’m also concerned about the lack of a defensive system and I think the kid line is a mistake. They need to split those guys up through the lineup.

I agree with not being ready to play. It's not every game but it happens far too many times and thats why I question coaching. I'm ok with the kid line but see the reason some want to split them up. The defense last night wasn't good but that had alot to do with Trouba's injury and Bitetto is awful. The defense for the most part has been pretty good this year. They have been top 3rd in GA most of the year and high quality chances against are down significantly from last year. With last night's debacle they are still 12 out of 31 so not so bad. That will only get better as we continue to improve the Dline depth. I don't think we will see any of Bitetto, Hajek or Smith next year.

 

[bernmeister]

Future very good or great players will find a way to attain their levels.

Soon, the Rangers will be officially out, and the youngsters will see more offensive situations.

Next season will have totally different lines. The problem is that unless some big moves are made, there's too many talented wingers and not enough talented centers. Gorton has to decide how to resolve it. I hope Buch stays, unless a Top-6 center is headed here, in return.

However that plays out, their D should be much improved, with Bitetto and Hajek out of the picture. I'd like Smith to be replaced, too, but have no problem with him as a 6, as long as he has an NHL-caliber partner.

We should play our best guys, with a strategy to develop everybody b'c depth is long term a signif asset.

Too much effin riding the vets
sell high -- will never be higher -- on Strome + Buch
and also the dregs like Smith

Krav in particular has demonstrated he deserves mo mins

Quinn's constant coddling of Howden takes mins away from others mo deserving incl Gauthier.

Bit has no defense. He is not that good.
Hajek you are being overly critical, imo
He is a cut below our better guys but he is still good.
And he is usually bottom pair, which is fine, but his partner often Smith is not same level talent as others.

Move on

 

[LORDE]

Was like watching men play boys... while part of that is sort of true... our men looked like infants and our boys looked like toddlers.

Playing Buffalo and the Debbies inflated everyones sense of what we are.

 

[Leetch94]

Was like watching men play boys... while part of that is sort of true... our men looked like infants and our boys looked like toddlers.

Playing Buffalo and the Debbies inflated everyones sense of what we are.

Nah, most of is understood the reality of the situation. Sorry for all you woke folk but what a shame there was no one to at least try to feed Martin some knuckles.

 

[FultonReed]

we need more structure, because it doesn't look like they have much.

 

[chosen]

As far as our prospects go right now in terms of ability to play at nhl level and contribute offensively, they are ranked Kravtsov, Kakko, Lafreniere. They need to give him a top 6 spot if they wanna try an make a run especially against heavier teams where Blackwell tends to fade away. Kravtsov is the only one of the three thats shooting, the other two need to learn to trust their shots.

I still think Laf is the best of the three going forward, and by quite a bit.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

My biggest peeve this entire season is our crappy forecheck.

isles always had two men after the puck, even on line changes.

We barely have one. Even when we arent changing lines

Or we send two, but they get there late & don't accomplish anything. So often our forecheckers wind up behind the play after racing in late & not obstructing the opponent's breakout.

When we play a team w/ a good forecheck & D system, like last night's Islanders, it looks like our D-men take to long to retrieve & move the puck. We're too slow & they're too fast.

 

[chosen]

Spare us your efforts, successful or otherwise, on coagulating your defecation.
underline:
It is not a hard matter of a "[#]1" line,
it is our top line b'c its Panarin.
Panarin obv can be successful other line combos, likewise so can Krav. But the pt is this particular line has everything, and would be a terror to play against,
It has size, speed, power, scoring ability, etc etc etc.
It follows my guide of one working formula:
driver of play - facilitator - scoring threat.

Instead of pooh-pooing the suggestion, pls feel free to try to provide actual objective, constructive analysis to counter suggest why both the underlying premise of that formula, and by extension, the proposed line, would not work, iyo.

bold:
same as above, except to a lesser degree.
Chytil is an emerging C, LaF is supposed to be a stud scorer and we expect will be as he gets comfortable w/NHL game.
Gauthier does have the tools and shows the compete level to be a driver of play, particularly on this line.
Familiarity. Increased comfort level. linemates play better together. Increased production. Potential for synergy.

Give the man a fair chance.
It is not JG's fault that DQ plays Howden, and does not run correct lines.







Disagree.
There is a reason we surrendered a promising RD [Keane] for this guy. He has the tools. He has good speed size adequate strength and shot. He applies himself (I don't know about before but haven't seen him dogging it even 1 game since he got here.)

Chemistry.
Line combos that work.
He is a good cog to have and good value.
Again, not his fault DQ is an idiot.

As to Howden, he has had his chance. Some of what he brings IS positive. But he has no hands, esp as to [setting up for] shooting. He also does not have a great shot.
Gauthier is an upgrade extensively if not entirely across the board.

Yeah, I said it.
I take my lines over DQ.

Gauthier is a driver of play? I haven't seen those stats. Is that true, so far in his career?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Three observations from this game:

1. It's clear Trouba is a really important player for this team. I know he has some defenders here (of which I am one), but I think people misinterpret his value as a top 5 defender in the league, when he is really being paid as a 1B. He is clearly carrying that role (and doing it fairly well) for this team.

2. The team is still young and even good teams have brain farts. I was worried this would happen after smacking a glorified AHL team four games in a row. Seems they forgot how to play against actual teams and it showed. I expect much better from them in the next game, but the playoffs were always a long shot this year. Big steps have been made and no playoffs next year would be a real failure.

3. I don't hate Quinn as many as most here, but I really wonder if there are any coaches who just never make completely boneheaded decisions. Why in God's name is Kravtsov stuck playing with Rooney and Howden (let alone why Howden is still playing). How, after playing so terribly and being benched against the Devils, was Bittetto back out there? Hajek is clearly better and it would be better to even give Jones a cup of tea. On what planet does Bitttetto have any future with this team?

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Or we send two, but they get there late & don't accomplish anything. So often our forecheckers wind up behind the play after racing in late & not obstructing the opponent's breakout.

When we play a team w/ a good forecheck & D system, like last night's Islanders, it looks like our D-men take to long to retrieve & move the puck. We're too slow & they're too fast.

Why do we always overreact to a loss. We just took 3 out of 4 points against this same team 2 weeks ago and outplayed them in both games. Ya know, the team with a good forecheck and D system.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The only rational I can come up with for why Bitetto continues to get games is for this playoff chase Quinn would rather play vets as opposed younger guys

In this scenario even if Hajek is better than Bitetto, Bitetto has been around longer so therefore Quinn has more trust in him

 

[bernmeister]

Gauthier is a driver of play? I haven't seen those stats. Is that true, so far in his career?

fair enough
What I meant to say is he fits the model, he is a projected driver of play, and is complementary as such, for that line, specifically. He may fit that role other lines also.

But can we agree
LaF = scorer
Chytil = facilitator

JG is like Kreider lite, speed, toughness, works pucks in corners, then also supplements rest of the equation.

As to
"I haven't seen those stats. Is that true, so far in his career?"

What I ask you to consider, honestly, is has he had a real and legit chance to go there.
Has this guy been another Lias Andersson eff up who got chances?
Or has he not gotten sufficient opportunity?

Quinn not playing him stinks of something.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Three observations from this game:

1. It's clear Trouba is a really important player for this team. I know he has some defenders here (of which I am one), but I think people misinterpret his value as a top 5 defender in the league, when he is really being paid as a 1B. He is clearly carrying that role (and doing it fairly well) for this team.

2. The team is still young and even good teams have brain farts. I was worried this would happen after smacking a glorified AHL team four games in a row. Seems they forgot how to play against actual teams and it showed. I expect much better from them in the next game, but the playoffs were always a long shot this year. Big steps have been made and no playoffs next year would be a real failure.

3. I don't hate Quinn as many as most here, but I really wonder if there are any coaches who just never make completely boneheaded decisions. Why in God's name is Kravtsov stuck playing with Rooney and Howden (let alone why Howden is still playing). How, after playing so terribly and being benched against the Devils, was Bittetto back out there? Hajek is clearly better and it would be better to even give Jones a cup of tea. On what planet does Bitttetto have any future with this team?

Agree on all 3 points. It's a refreshing change from the usual "we suck" and "sky is falling" posts after a bad loss.

 

[Synergy27]

It’s probably a good bet. There are some normal pockets of nice towns in north and central jersey, but rule of thumb in the garden state is the further south and west you go, the more normal the people are

I kept moving south and west and now I live in Virginia.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Three observations from this game:

1. It's clear Trouba is a really important player for this team. I know he has some defenders here (of which I am one), but I think people misinterpret his value as a top 5 defender in the league, when he is really being paid as a 1B. He is clearly carrying that role (and doing it fairly well) for this team.

2. The team is still young and even good teams have brain farts. I was worried this would happen after smacking a glorified AHL team four games in a row. Seems they forgot how to play against actual teams and it showed. I expect much better from them in the next game, but the playoffs were always a long shot this year. Big steps have been made and no playoffs next year would be a real failure.

3. I don't hate Quinn as many as most here, but I really wonder if there are any coaches who just never make completely boneheaded decisions. Why in God's name is Kravtsov stuck playing with Rooney and Howden (let alone why Howden is still playing). How, after playing so terribly and being benched against the Devils, was Bittetto back out there? Hajek is clearly better and it would be better to even give Jones a cup of tea. On what planet does Bitttetto have any future with this team?

Well he is the 7th highest paid dman in the NHL

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Well he is the 7th highest paid dman in the NHL

Correct. And his contract is brand new. So now consider where he will rank on that list next year and the year after. He is paid as if he is a 20-30 D-Man, which is exactly what he is.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Why do we always overreact to a loss. We just took 3 out of 4 points against this same team 2 weeks ago and outplayed them in both games. Ya know, the team with a good forecheck and D system.

Isles played a lot better last night than the previous meetings. And probably the Rangers were tired.

So your point about over-reacting to one game is well-taken.

But still - do you think we have what it takes to match the best teams on their good days? I don't. In the past month or so I've see the Isles, Bruins, and Pens make us look like we can't do anything. And these were games we had to win. We had wins vs these teams as well, but they didn't need to win every game.

 

[mas0764]

My biggest peeve this entire season is our crappy forecheck.

isles always had two men after the puck, even on line changes.

We barely have one. Even when we arent changing lines

The Isles are suffocating.

We don't ever look like we are skating that hard.

 

[Bruner4329]

Just think when it comes to big games like this or back to back games against same team we lose on the coaching side. I hate the fore check strategy they have employed all year and the dump the puck in leaves a lot to desire with the skill sets we have on this team. This team also makes too many dumb/blind passes that ends up biting them and it is usually guys like Panarin, Zibbs and Kreider doing it.

Would love to have a hard nose center who can score and set up but also has a physical aspect to his game. Finally did anyone think for a moment that Howden would score when he had 2 fabulous chances when it was still 3-1? The guy has no skill and he does nothing for the guys he plays with.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I still think Laf is the best of the three going forward, and by quite a bit.

He is but not at this moment. Kravtsov has shown me enough right now that i don't think the gap is as far as i once thought it would be between their ceilings