That is so annoying. The kids barely skate, they don't leave their own zone with speed. Kakko stands by the right boards ready to help out Smith/the D. Laf is watching from the other side and Chytil is hovering, not moving with speed ready to take an outlet pass. Safe. But not creative, or helping the kids at all. Then Kakko works the puck over the defensive blueline, past the forecheck, and throws a soft puck down the ice so the line can change. Seriously, wtf is that. Come on, coaches.
Post-Game Talk: We choked on the fishsticks
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That is so annoying. The kids barely skate, they don't leave their own zone with speed. Kakko stands by the right boards ready to help out Smith/the D. Laf is watching from the other side and Chytil is hovering, not moving with speed ready to take an outlet pass. Safe. But not creative, or helping the kids at all. Then Kakko works the puck over the defensive blueline, past the forecheck, and throws a soft puck down the ice so the line can change. Seriously, wtf is that. Come on, coaches.
I think nils was super high up on the priority chain, but with the emergence of fox, and Jones being compared to Fox on the left side nils is going to be the odd man out. Not cause he’s not a phenomenal prospect but more becuase of the style those 2 guys play. Gorton and JD s mandate was that he wants the rangers to be bigger and tougher to play against. Fox and trouba aren’t going anywhere for 3 years at least. They moved up to get miller and moved up to get Schneider. I cannot see them dealing either player. Both are big fast and can move the puck. Schneider is more on the nasty side. Robertson also is a large body and very mobile. That’s the kind of D they are looking for. Nils is a very good defender and has an excellent shot. The reason I think he gets moved is because he is the furtherest along development wise and many teams would love to have him including us. He is the high end type of prospect that is going to bring back an equally high end young center in a package deal. The rangers seem to want big bodies that move well that can take a lot of wear and tear but not lose any mobility and also protect shesty. Fox being Norris worthy and trouba mostly due to contract are locked in. Schneider is not far away at all. Nor is Robertson. Lindgren is the smallest D we have that plays a large mans game. Everyone can see that the way he plays is going to have a massive toll on his body in the next 5-6 years. I just don’t see this team having 3 of 6 D 5”10 and under. And it’s not a shot at Lundkvist. He’s great
But if you take Gorts and JD at their word they want the team to be tougher to play against. Spending 8 mill a year on Trouba and trading Up to get Miller and then to get Schneider paints a pretty clear image to me in the direction they want to go on the backend.
RD is the position of strength they will be dealing from
Fox
Trouba
Lundkvist
Schneider
Skinner
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RD
Fox
Trouba
Nils L
LD
KAM
Lindgren = MAYBE traded
2 of Robertson, Jones most likely
if Lindy not dealt that is 7
rotate 7th guy gives each guy 1 night off per
those are the most likely
agree Reunanen + can push their case
So you maybe trade Robin of Batman and robin knowing it could have an adverse effect on Fox and knowing perhaps Lindgren can find another gear to his game. I think they would maybe trade him, but not for years until it’s financially not feasible. If the mandate is to get tougher to play against we need more lindgrens not less. Just bigger versions
and what do you do if Lundkvist and Schneider are both ready come camp?? Who sits or goes to Hartford ? And why? Not only that Top 4 D get a brunt of the minutes anyway. There are plenty of 3rd pair D options available for just cash if they are only getting 10-13 minutes a game and maybe some PK time?
I’m not worried about the left, although you may face a similar situation sooner rather then later. I know many don’t like it but these are the facts. They are going to deal from their position of strength to beef up our center problems. He’ll, the way this draft looking and where we may land, there’s a better then average chance we add another Defenseman in the first RD this year as well
LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
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I get that it feels annoying to get physically pushed around by other teams, but the problem last night was not the lack of players who can play physical. The problem was our skill players didn't show up, and thus it was a disaster. If Mika, Buch, Panarin and Strome skate and pass and do about their business, no one complains about their physicality, 'cause the Islanders can't make a hit on them. Instead, they were all MIA last night.
What I am worried about, is the lack constant lack of intensity from those top guys. I get that you can't play well every game, but it just seems to happen so often with the Rangers vets. And that's on the coach and the leadership of the team IMO.
What I am worried about, is the lack constant lack of intensity from those top guys. I get that you can't play well every game, but it just seems to happen so often with the Rangers vets. And that's on the coach and the leadership of the team IMO.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,643
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Anyone that can't quantify toughness in a game most likely hasn't played enough to know it makes a difference, and I'm not talking about having a Ryan Reaves, I'm talking about team toughness, there's no need to add anyone, just everyone has to have each other's backs. The devils knew the other night that shoving Lafreniere into the post didn't matter, that there was gonna be no push back, they basically dared us to do something and we folded like a cheap suit and invited them to do it again next game. It doesn't show up on a stat line, it can't because you can't quantify what a person would have done against a team vs what they actually did during a game. I know this, teams aren't worried about being physical with our players and why would they, outside of Smith, Trouba Lindgren and Buch nobody does anything and its pond hockey for them. You don't even have to fight, take a run at Barzal or Hughes send the message that way, i don't know how you look your teammates in the eye after they get creamed and you did nothing....embarrassing
It is mathematically possible that Schneid could be ready day 1, but way more likely end of next season at the earliest.
However, much delay after that will not be in order.
that is the pt where the sh*t will hit the fan.
However, unless I decide it is worth it, I do not want to lose either Nils or Schned [or obv Fox for that matter] b'c of Trouba
At that pt, we tell him next yr can be hard, or it can be easy. He can work with us and we can try to move to a preferred destination, even if we have to eat some of his salary, OR he gets reduced playing time in a 4man RD rotation, and the moment he can be dealt, he's gone, without consideration of if it was a preferred relocation or not.
No, again, the facts are we have enough blue chip elcs for us to provide depth, we do not have surplus for trade.
For this reason, and the FACT we MUST get ahead of the cap, it is the vets who will be repurposed for futures.
If that means only picks, so be it.
Picks are a universal currency and if an opportunity emerges, we can add to those picks to the mix if we desire.
If alternatively it does mean a great prospect like Drury, ok, that's fine too.
w/Lindgren + Trouba that is 8 D, evenly 4 per side, rotating. Eventually we move Trouba and we get a taker for Lindy sooner than that.
Sell high on Lindy
do NOT undersell on Nils L b'c he has not shown what he can do at NHL level just yet.
smoneil
Registered User
We also have an AHL team, don't forget. We don't HAVE to move all of these guys to the NHL roster the second they look like they can hold down the 7th D spot. Let them percolate in Hartford playing top pair minutes and all situations. Pull them up for a couple of cups of coffee and then send them back down with a developmental to-do list of things to work on.
That’s the thing I don’t know how much better People think Chytil could be? He’s in pace for about 40-50 pts over a full season will 12 min a game and no PP. if he isn’t put in a larger roll I don’t know what people are gonna expect from a 3rd line center at 21 yrs old. He’s got the size and talent
smoneil
Registered User
I'm worried that he's going to be another Marc Savard situation, where the coach/team just decides for some reason that they don't rate the player, they move him, and be becomes a top line center for someone else.
Me too. It’s about being tougher on the puck. Winning board battles, forechecking, faceoffs etc. it’s that drive/desire we need more of as a whole. The physical stuff will come with that too once the team as a whole buys into this concept. It’s not just fans that want it. It’s gorts and Jd s mandate for the last 2 years
I know what the facts are. And obviously there is a surplus. I’m talking right now East forward to camp, you are coach Bern. Both Schneider and lundkvist are ripping it up and are ready for NHL duty. You rather send one to the AHL instead of upgrading a weak point on the roster?? Who stays? Who goes down? How long before one asks for a trade because it’s obvious they are ready but not enough spots? Nobody is talking about underselling. I don’t know where your getting that from. I’m saying you have a decision to make. What is it?? Stop dancing around the questions with more questions. Do you think either guy is going to wait with their hands folded in Hartford for 3 years to find a deal for Trouba? Do you think the rangers aren’t going to draft more D as well in the next 3 years? I’ll give you the answer to those two. It’s of course not
there’s not going to be a team of players 25 and under plus Kreids and panarin. It doesn’t work that way
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You take a run a Barzal, it would have been really ugly. No one on this Ranger team would fight Martin, Mayfield, Pelech, Clutterbuck, and god forbid if Ross Johnson suited up, this soft Ranger team would have turtled!
- Jul 16, 2005
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What eventually? We’ve been rebuilding for like 3 seasons and it has been a smashing success. We are in no danger of becoming the Sabres. This argument is so tired.
NO
we have a core difference on what reality is.
Despite me informing you that we have an adequate internal surplus only -- one that covers our internal needs, that provides roster depth, that enables cap management ....
despite this,
You INSIST on telling me there is a larger surplus which would afford us the ability to move someone.
NO THAT IS NOT THE FACT, JACK
Pls yield to that reality.
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As to yr scenario on training camp:
my eye says Schneider will get another year of seasoning unless something happens and Trouba is gone.
we will see schneid -> cup of coffee end of next season
at that point, following season Schneider may force the issue, not before.
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As to yr scenario, you don't want to listen to the above, you insist "Both Schneider and lundkvist are ripping it up and are ready for NHL duty". Like I said in that case, if Dolan personally overrode my decision, then I would carry 8 D, dressing 6 per game, using the other 2 to keep the D corps fresh.
Once we get a primo offer for Lindgren we should do that and that would then be a surplus of 1, 7 D carried, until we can finally move Trouba.
============
And finally, as to
"Nobody is talking about underselling. I don’t know where your getting that from"
it is simple logic.
Jones/Nils L, etc are all guys who have tremendous upside/promise.
A buyer will not pay as much for them unproven as for them proven.
Kakko is worth more now than a yr ago, he has demonstrated more, is an example, and his value will grow if he continues, going forward.
It is not smart to sell these guys -- the top shelf we are ultimately not keeping, whoever they are -- prematurely.
It is bad enuf we have to prob move a guy like Reunanan prematurely.
Cherry-picking individual game results and assigning a greater meaning to them makes no sense. You can prove anything you want by using that type of illogic.
Carrying 8 D and rotating them 2 games here and there is not realistic. No one does it. Miller is going to be better next year because of the minutes he played, and the mistakes and successes he’s had on the ice. That’s why it’s vital to get all these kids playing in all situations as much as they can while the team is going nowhere. In a perfect world Lundkvist steps in as 3 RD and Robertson and Schneider are Hartford’s first pair. Rarely in life does everything go as planned or the way we want it to. It’s very possible both are ready come camp. One or the other is going to play in the AHL only so long before it’s of no use to them development wise or they become disgruntled themselves. I do think for half a season or so, it will be possible to sent 1 guy down even if they were both nhl ready. But beyond that and the evaluations of their on ice performance Management is going to have to make a move. I highly doubt that would go on for more then a year tops and that’s no guarantee either
There is no way Schneider sits in the AHL for 2 seasons and a cup of coffee at the NHL. If that’s your reality it’s wrong. By all accounts the kid is ready for the show sooner rather then later. He didn’t look out of place in the AHL with the few games he’s had already. You can’t pick the timetable on when the kids are going to be ready. Neither can I, but that’s what appears to be happening. The only way IMO, that you won’t see a deal is if god forbid there’s a long term injury to Trouba or Fox. A season ending surgery or something
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Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
Noticed that too.....because I was going to vote Trouba. Title said; "who were the least terrible?". Trouba didnt have time for that. Therefore my would be vote.
"Carrying 8 D and rotating them 2 games here and there is not realistic. No one does it."
I did not say 8D as a first choice.
I said sell high on Lindgren, short term carry a spare [after KAM, best of Jones, Robertson, Hajek, (Reunanen may have to be dealt; try to up value of Hajek and Reunanen and then trade over course of next season.)].
That is one single spare on LD
3RDs
Fox, Trouba, Nils L.
You insisted I consider a hypothetical that Schneider must be put on the roster NOW. I rebuffed that. He will show up to command a spot end of upcoming season. You only get to 8 IF your non sequitur demand of Schneider now is accepted.
"Miller is going to be better next year because of the minutes he played, and the mistakes and successes he’s had on the ice. That’s why it’s vital to get all these kids playing in all situations as much as they can while the team is going nowhere."
You are talking to the guy who has wanted to have Smith off the roster for a while now.
"In a perfect world Lundkvist steps in as 3 RD and Robertson and Schneider are Hartford’s first pair."
Only God is actually perfect; the best we can do is excellent, which is not too shabby.
That would be a very excellent outcome, short term.
I give Robertson a better chance to claim the open 3LD than Schneid's temporarily blocked 3RD.
"Rarely in life does everything go as planned or the way we want it to."
ok
"It’s very possible both are ready come camp."
No, it is not VERY possible. There is an extreme outside mathematical possibility that BOTH have to be accommodated now.
You are pushing your narrative to try and force the outcome you want.
Disingenuous.
"One or the other is going to play in the AHL only so long before it’s of no use to them development wise or they become disgruntled themselves. I do think for half a season or so, it will be possible to sent 1 guy down even if they were both nhl ready."
We have ballpark agreement there.
"But beyond that and the evaluations of their on ice performance Management is going to have to make a move. I highly doubt that would go on for more then a year tops and that’s no guarantee either"
I am not saying hold them off long term.
I said sell Lindgren high promptly, and begin to lay groundwork to get Trouba out of here a year-ish early.
"There is no way Schneider sits in the AHL for 2 seasons and a cup of coffee at the NHL. If that’s your reality it’s wrong. By all accounts the kid is ready for the show sooner rather then later. He didn’t look out of place in the AHL with the few games he’s had already."
I said 1 season.
"You can’t pick the timetable on when the kids are going to be ready. Neither can I, but that’s what appears to be happening. The only way IMO, that you won’t see a deal is if god forbid there’s a long term injury to Trouba or Fox. A season ending surgery or something"
The kids will be ready sooner than later. on that we agree.
Back the bern plan.
Deal vets, create room for the kids.
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