GDT: We’re not in Dallas anymore CBJ@CAR

[AhosDatsyukian]

Mike sounded good. Probably is a lot easier to call live

Yeah he's doing better. Still mistook Bean for Pesce.... probably shouldn't be confusing players with different handedness so much, but whatever. We were spoiled by Forslund. Mike definitely doesn't take away from the broadcast, and has had some really nice calls too.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Yeah, I'm not worried too much about Dougie on that first goal. He might have been a factor, but he wasn't alone. Even the second goal, I get that some might want Dougie to use his big body to box the guy out and prevent that chance. But he was right with the guy and looked like he made a decent attempt to lock up his stick with his stick. A lot of times when that kind of thing works, it's lauded as a great play to tie up the stick. If he engages physically and gets called for interference, that could draw ire. Like I said, for me, it's more about how often he's gotten blown by even when it looks like he's skating hard. I wouldn't make any rash moves, I just hope to see that improve as the season moves on or I'd be scared of that long-term commitment.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Second by second breakdown:

CBJ enters the zone
Slavin: pressures the guy on the boards in attempt to make play on Roslovic
Dougie: in position in the slot ahead of the incoming forwards
Staal: entering the zone to support Slavin on boards
Foegele: entering zone with Laine and Atkinson

Roslovic passes to Laine

Slavin: does not break up pass
Dougie: in position on Laine
Foegele: Misreads pass and breaks coverage on Atkinson to cover 4CBJ coming into zone
Staal: Not quick enough to make play on the pass

Laine Shoots - shot deflects of Dougie
Slavin: behind play
Dougie: in position - deflects shot and in passing lane to Atkinson
Staal: behind play
Foegele: out of position based on bad pass read

Rebound knocked in by Atkinson

Slavin: behind play floating since the pass
Dougie: unable to react to rebound in time
Foegele: trying to get back into position but too late
Staal: behind play floating since the pass

ultimately I put this on Slavin/Staal. You don’t want Foegele to mess up that read and you don’t want a rebound, but

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Second by second breakdown:


Slavin: behind play floating since the pass
Dougie: unable to react to rebound in time
Foegele: trying to get back into position but too late
Staal: behind play floating since the pass

ultimately I put this on Slavin/Staal. You don’t want Foegele to mess up that read and you don’t want a rebound, but

I disagree. Slavin was the least of the people to blame there IMO. The pass was made at 19:38 with Slavin pretty much stationary as he adjusted to Rozlovic's move and tried to break up the pass. Laine shot at 19:37 and Atkinsson shot at 19:38. There was zero chance any NHL defensemen in Slavin's spot was going to get to either Laine in 1s, or Atkinson in 2 seconds. That's not humanly possible.

You may want to fault him for "not breaking up the pass", but no defenseman is going to break up every pass and Rozlovic made a great stop and reverse to open up a passing lane.

Staal messed up at the blue line and frankly was a bit slow getting back into the play. Foegele made a poor read and left the 1 guy in the spot you should never leave a guy.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The question for me becomes what Staal's and what is Svech's area of responsbilitiy here.

Is Staal supposed to support the wall the pressure the top side defender if the pass is made? Is that Svech's job?

Who is the middle of the lane forward in this scenario? Foegele, Svech, or Staal?

Whoever is the middle of the ice forward should be on Laine. Then Hamilton can take the back side forward on the cut. Without that middle of the ice forward, Hamilton had to take the direct threat, which was Laine. No one was there to take the back side. Should Foegele have recognized that and went to stop the back side forward? Maybe but the reaction time probably wasnt enough anyways.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The question for me becomes what Staal's and what is Svech's area of responsbilitiy here.

Is Staal supposed to support the wall the pressure the top side defender if the pass is made? Is that Svech's job?

Who is the middle of the lane forward in this scenario? Foegele, Svech, or Staal?

Whoever is the middle of the ice forward should be on Laine. Then Hamilton can take the back side forward on the cut. Without that middle of the ice forward, Hamilton had to take the direct threat, which was Laine. No one was there to take the back side. Should Foegele have recognized that and went to stop the back side forward? Maybe but the reaction time probably wasnt enough anyways.

I'm fairly certain that when it's a rush up the ice, the roles aren't that defined and the forwards have to adapt accordingly. My view is that when it was just Dougie and Slavin back and Slavin is keeping the puck carrier wide, Dougie pretty much has to protect the middle until he has foward help back. At that point as Foegele gets back into the zone he has to take the most dangerous guy,which is Atkinsson and he mis-reads it.

It might be fair to say Staal or Svech should have hustled back more, but the fact of the matter is that Foegele was in position to cover Atkinson and had Staal high on one side and (presumably) Svech coming down with the CLB late arrival guys.

Clearly nobody played it "well", but I personally think Staal (at the blue line) and Foegele (Mis-read on Atkinson) probably played it the worst. As Joe said, it was a general clusterf***.

EDIT: The point of the whole discussion though was that Tripp was pointing out Dougie and I don't think Dougie was any worse than anyone else on that play. If he doesn't take Laine, neither Foegele or Staal were going to get to him and it would be one of the best goal scorers in the NHL at point blank.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I'm fairly certain that when it's a rush up the ice, the roles aren't that defined and the forwards have to adapt accordingly. My view is that when it was just Dougie and Slavin back and Slavin is keeping the puck carrier wide, Dougie pretty much has to protect the middle until he has foward help back. At that point as Foegele gets back into the zone he has to take the most dangerous guy,which is Atkinsson and he mis-reads it.

It might be fair to say Staal or Svech should have hustled back more, but the fact of the matter is that Foegele was in position to cover Atkinson and had Staal high on one side and (presumably) Svech coming down with the CLB late arrival guys.

Clearly nobody played it "well", but I personally think Staal (at the blue line) and Foegele (Mis-read on Atkinson) probably played it the worst. As Joe said, it was a general clusterf***.

EDIT: The point of the whole discussion though was that Tripp was pointing out Dougie and I don't think Dougie was any worse than anyone else on that play. If he doesn't take Laine, neither Foegele or Staal were going to get to him and it would be one of the best goal scorers in the NHL at point blank.

Right, what is Dougie supposed to do just let Patrick Laine take an uncontested shot from the slot so he can cover Atkinson wide? No chance. McLovin saw Laine coming and for God knows what reason thought that was his responsibility. Just a poor read.

 

[Incubajerks]

Live yesterday during the replays I had it on Foegele and maybe I'll stick with it...nice post btw!

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

I disagree. Slavin was the least of the people to blame there IMO. The pass was made at 19:38 with Slavin pretty much stationary as he adjusted to Rozlovic's move and tried to break up the pass. Laine shot at 19:37 and Atkinsson shot at 19:38. There was zero chance any NHL defensemen in Slavin's spot was going to get to either Laine in 1s, or Atkinson in 2 seconds. That's not humanly possible.

You may want to fault him for "not breaking up the pass", but no defenseman is going to break up every pass and Rozlovic made a great stop and reverse to open up a passing lane.

Staal messed up at the blue line and frankly was a bit slow getting back into the play. Foegele made a poor read and left the 1 guy in the spot you should never leave a guy.

I agree that he would have not been able to get back to break the play up. My point is 1) if you’re going to have 2 guys pressure the the puck carrier out of the circle like that you can’t let the pass get through clean and 2) if that play had continued for another rebound or 2 Slavin was not making a effort to get back into the play

 

[Lempo]

There were multiple parties at fault for sure.

Let's not committee them out of culpability. T'would set a bad example for the GMBC.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I agree that he would have not been able to get back to break the play up. My point is 1) if you’re going to have 2 guys pressure the the puck carrier out of the circle like that you can’t let the pass get through clean and 2) if that play had continued for another rebound or 2 Slavin was not making a effort to get back into the play

Slavin was still in front of Roslovic, the guy he had been covering the entire time.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I blame Pitkanen.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I agree that he would have not been able to get back to break the play up. My point is 1) if you’re going to have 2 guys pressure the the puck carrier out of the circle like that you can’t let the pass get through clean

I get what you are saying, but my points are:
1) is Slavin and Dougie were the first two back and Slavin did his job taking the puck carrier and not letting him get to the center of the ice. Dougie then covered the Center of the ice. IMO, that's exactly what they should be doing in that scenario.

2) skilled NHL forwards find ways to open up the ice to prevent a defenseman from breaking up the pass. Aho, Svech and TT do it all the time. Roslovic did a nice stop and pivot to do open up the ice making it immensely more difficult to break up his pass. Credit to him. Would I have liked Slavin to stop the pass? Sure, but the odds of any NHL defensman stopping a pass like that all the time is pretty slim IMO so my view is it's unrealistic to say "he can't let that through".

and 2) if that play had continued for another rebound or 2 Slavin was not making a effort to get back into the play

Maybe, but it's irrelevant to this discussion because the whole sequence was 2 seconds and the puck was in the net. His lack of effort after the pass was made had zero impact.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I blame Pitkanen.

Pitkanen would have stopped a goal from being scored there.

 

[Unsustainable]

Pitkanen would have stopped a goal from being scored there.

he would have taken the puck and sent it to Jerome Samson and it would have been turned over back to them at the blue line

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

I get what you are saying, but my points are:
1) is Slavin and Dougie were the first two back and Slavin did his job taking the puck carrier and not letting him get to the center of the ice. Dougie then covered the Center of the ice. IMO, that's exactly what they should be doing in that scenario.

2) skilled NHL forwards find ways to open up the ice to prevent a defenseman from breaking up the pass. Aho, Svech and TT do it all the time. Roslovic did a nice stop and pivot to do open up the ice making it immensely more difficult to break up his pass. Credit to him. Would I have liked Slavin to stop the pass? Sure, but the odds of any NHL defensman stopping a pass like that all the time is pretty slim IMO so my view is it's unrealistic to say "he can't let that through".


Maybe, but it's irrelevant to this discussion because the whole sequence was 2 seconds and the puck was in the net. His lack of effort after the pass was made had zero impact.

I would not have picked apart this goal, but it seems like every 3rd of Slavin and Dougie’s shifts they have getting pinned in and failing to make plays (like they consistently did last year). Hoping it is rust effects of Covid.

 

[Lempo]

Meanwhile, fans of Patrik Laine's team have been laughing since 2016 at that the opponent will have two guys covering for Laine which creates room for Laine's teammates to score.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I would not have picked apart this goal, but it seems like every 3rd of Slavin and Dougie’s shifts they have getting pinned in and failing to make plays (like they consistently did last year). Hoping it is rust effects of Covid.

Out of curiosity, did they skate more with Staal 2 years ago?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Right, what is Dougie supposed to do just let Patrick Laine take an uncontested shot from the slot so he can cover Atkinson wide? No chance. McLovin saw Laine coming and for God knows what reason thought that was his responsibility. Just a poor read.

I could be wrong, but I thought Foegele saw the 4th Jacket coming uncovered, thought Hamilton had Atkinson, therefore his juke was to cover that guy, which makes sense given that was a dman and thus Foegele's responsibility.

I couldn't agree more though, Hamilton saw Patrick f***ing Laine about to shoot and made a play on the shot. Tripp namedrops that Hamilton "had to make a choice", that choice being let Patrick Laine shoot or cover Atkinson, who was already covered. Next week on Hamilton's choice: does he cover an uncontested Ovie shot or cover Wilson at the net, who is unmarked because McGinn blew coverage after Hamilton committed?

Really the "fault" (as reductive as it is to assign that to a single goal) is on Staal arriving late, meaning he had to play the pass rather than be in position to play Laine, which pulled Hamilton to play the Laine shot which left Atkinson uncovered because Foegele froze for a second.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Out of curiosity, did they skate more with Staal 2 years ago?

two years ago they (Dougie and Slavin) weren't together until 2nd half of the season IIRC, so it's harder to say.

5v5 TOI with last year (only looked at Slavin):
Staal: 407
Svech: 392
TT: 389
Aho: 370
Foegele: 344
Nino: 334

5v5 TOI with this year (again, only Slavin)
Svechnikov: 63
Foegele: 53
Aho: 52
McGinn: 51
Nino: 49
Staal: 48

 

[geehaad]

I appreciate the detailed breakdown, but assigning blame on Slavin is a bad conclusion.

Foegele read that Staal had Laine, and so he didn't need to follow Atkinson down to the house, since Hamilton was already there.

Really the "fault" (as reductive as it is to assign that to a single goal) is on Staal arriving late, meaning he had to play the pass rather than be in position to play Laine, which pulled Hamilton to play the Laine shot which left Atkinson uncovered because Foegele froze for a second.

It wasn't so much that Staal arrives late...he's right on time. However, it all breaks down when Staal lets Laine past him. With no one other than Svech behind him, he inexplicably leaves Laine to ... protect against a pass back to the point? This is compounded with Foegele's read, putting Dougie in a 2-on-1 that ends badly.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

To me, it all breaks down when Staal lets Laine past him. With no one other than Svech behind him, he inexplicably leaves Laine to ... protect against a pass back to the point?

I think Staal was thinking he had already blown coverage on Laine, so his next best play was to contain Roslovic with Slavin and prevent a pass.

 

[geehaad]

I think Staal was thinking he had already blown coverage on Laine, so his next best play was to contain Roslovic with Slavin and prevent a pass.

Nope. He was very clearly ahead of him coming into the zone. I mean, yeah, Staal could have thought that, but he would have been very incorrect.

EDIT: isn't it nice that we can calmly discuss this, because they eventually clowned the BJs?

 

[Tryamw]

I blame Pitkanen.

Yeah How's he supposed to cover a guy in Raleigh when he's in Finland?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

haven't posted here in awhile, but i'm chiming in to say that it was clearly obviously foegele's fault. he's not good. anyways the reason i know this is because i am an expert at hockey. a woman who i was hospitalized for anorexia with had sex with a former hurricanes player, so i'm essentially an nhl player myself. i know stuff that people here don't. i am right.

EDIT: this is an incredible post, in my opinion. it may be my best.